Wash Ave Quiet Zones Construction to Begin July 2009

[longhornguy]

Looks like the wonderful residents of this area were able to pull off city approval for Quiet Zone construction.

http://washingtonquietzone.com/

I wonder what this will do to real estate and rent values in the area, which are already somewhat high...

[kylejack]

Ah, okay. This is a railroad thing, that's cool. I initially figured this was another escalation in the ongoing war between Walter's and the new neighbors who have built houses around Walter's and proceeded to complain about the noise. http://www.houstonpress.com/2008-05-08/mus...on-fights-back/

[ChandoJMC]

That's such great news! I already have no issues sleeping through the train horns, but I'm glad the city worked with the 77007 residents to make a change.

[travelguy_73]

Fantastic! I noticed that the map linked from your link shows that the track nearest me is on the list as well. Guess that means we actuallly do have a chance to get a quiet zone as well.

[crunchtastic]

Wow, not just Washingotn, Ave. That's a lot of proposed quiet zone in the east end! Sweet! It also includes the line one block away from me.

[travelguy_73]

Wow, not just Washingotn, Ave. That's a lot of proposed quiet zone in the east end! Sweet! It also includes the line one block away from me.

Not to hijack this thread to focus on the East End, but I wonder how realistic these proposed zones really are? I haven't heard the Eastwood civic association mention them (in a long time), and so I wonder if this is sort of like the capital improvement process, where you get on a list and in about 10 years you might get your street repaved .

[Highway6]

The map's title is Proposed Quiet Zones / Safety Zones.

How are the railroad tracks through multiple neighborhoods made safer by forbidding the trains to honk their horns as they approach intersections or kids playing on the track ?

[kylejack]

The map's title is Proposed Quiet Zones / Safety Zones.

How are the railroad tracks through multiple neighborhoods made safer by forbidding the trains to honk their horns as they approach intersections or kids playing on the track ?

To get approval for no honking, improvements have to be made including making it harder to get on the tracks, and making it more obvious that a train is coming with signals and etc.

[20thStDad]

That's it, no honking? Quiet zones don't involve large walls? It should take about 2 seconds to implement a no-honking zone, I don't see the big deal here.

[longhornguy]

No, quiet zones do not involve walls. Walls would require more funding and more red tape to get approved. These zones will be similar to what you see along Westheimer (Just West of Central Market and Highland Village), Richmond and San Felipe.

Also, from what I understand, not all of these proposed Quiet Zones will be implemented right away. As mentioned before, some could take a decade to complete.

I think routes A, B and C already exist as quiet zones (Sawyer area will notice this) and Routes 1-6 are Tier I (Highest Priority, Construction to begin 6/09) and the rest falling between Tier II and Tier III areas. I'm guessing Tier II and Tier III are going to fall under future Fiscal budgets.

[JamesL]

The map's title is Proposed Quiet Zones / Safety Zones.

How are the railroad tracks through multiple neighborhoods made safer by forbidding the trains to honk their horns as they approach intersections or kids playing on the track ?

The main requirement for a quiet zone is four quadrant gates at crossings, i.e. both lanes of traffic (and sidewalks) have crossing arms so idiots can't drive around the lowered gates. And, while engineers would no longer sound the horn routinely, they would still honk away if there were an obvious problem on the tracks ahead, like kids playing or people walking.

[CHiPs]

No, quiet zones do not involve walls. Walls would require more funding and more red tape to get approved. These zones will be similar to what you see along Westheimer (Just West of Central Market and Highland Village), Richmond and San Felipe.

Also, from what I understand, not all of these proposed Quiet Zones will be implemented right away. As mentioned before, some could take a decade to complete.

I think routes A, B and C already exist as quiet zones (Sawyer area will notice this) and Routes 1-6 are Tier I (Highest Priority, Construction to begin 6/09) and the rest falling between Tier II and Tier III areas. I'm guessing Tier II and Tier III are going to fall under future Fiscal budgets.

This is good news, since I'm near Route #1!

[longhornguy]

Update: You'll notice that all the materials to begin construction of the barricades are in place at each of the railroad intersections on the Washington railroad line. This will be great news to the people and businesses in the area.

[margokorin]

im going to miss the train whistle. i love it.

[UpperWestEnder]

When I first heard about the Quiet Zone at a civic meeting in March, I was not a fan because as part of implementation they were going to close Bonner and Thompson at the railroad tracks. Essentially to get out of my neighborhood I'd have to either go down Koehler to Yale or Spencer over to Patterson. I normally take Bonner especially when headed east on Washington. (Oh, and I don't notice the train horn.)

But with all the bar activity on Washington, which has really picked up even just in the past three months I don't bother going down Washington and turn off at Patterson to go home rather than deal with the mini-Sixth street of Pearl, Block 21, Dubliner, etc. And I stopped using Thompson after dark. It's full of parked cars and staggering drunks after dark.

So now I don't care if they close Bonner and Thompson. I think it will improve home values and I've already seen evidence of that. It will also help insulate the Upper West End from the Washington Ave. crowd looking for parking.

[Yankee_in_TX]

Color me impressed if they get this implemented the way John Q. Public thinks it will be.

We bailed on buying in Washington because our choice was tiny or next to the tracks (and I have sleeping issues w/ ANY noise). I would imagine some property values will skyrocket once this is done.

[UpperWestEnder]

Yankee_in_TX,

Your sleep concerns take precedence, but for the price you're looking at (your other thread) you could have a much larger home north of Washington and south of I-10. I believe the house you are considering is 2b, 1600 sq. ft. but $264K. There are 3 bd, 1800 sq. ft. homes for sale at that price. But again, right now it's not practical for you because the train horns are still frequent and loud. It just doesn't bother me.

[Yankee_in_TX]

Yankee_in_TX,

Your sleep concerns take precedence, but for the price you're looking at (your other thread) you could have a much larger home north of Washington and south of I-10. I believe the house you are considering is 2b, 1600 sq. ft. but $264K. There are 3 bd, 1800 sq. ft. homes for sale at that price. But again, right now it's not practical for you because the train horns are still frequent and loud. It just doesn't bother me.

We actually had a contract on a house off Sawyer. A week after we bailed we were shopping at the I-10 Target and WOW that train whistle was LOUD!!! Smack in the middle of Target, too.

I agree, there are some GREAT homes b/t Washington and I-10 if you don't mind the train noise. If that quite zones gets fully implemented, I think a lot of people will have a property windfall.

The trash truck banging dumpsters in the alley at 4:45 reminded me this morning why we put a contract on a house in Shady Acres. (We didn't go with the homes from the other thread due to size - my wife kept hesitating and finally she said they're too small, no room for growth; we have a contract on a 2200 sqft home).

[diggity]

I finally toured those Titan homes Yankee.

The finishes were nice but my client and I felt pretty cramped, especially in the first floor hallway. That builder is pretty pushy as well!

I think you guys made the right decision as his price point is pretty high.

[UpperWestEnder]

Looks like the wonderful residents of this area were able to pull off city approval for Quiet Zone construction.

http://washingtonquietzone.com/

Looks like the July 2009 start originally cited slipped. The website only gives a projection that the completion will be next year with no commitment of a start date. There's a second public meeting on Wednesday, August 26 at the West End Multi-Service Center at 7 PM. It's still officially only a "Quiet Zone request". So I don't expect anything to change for at least another six months.

[Jdorfma1]

Looks like the July 2009 start originally cited slipped. The website only gives a projection that the completion will be next year with no commitment of a start date. There's a second public meeting on Wednesday, August 26 at the West End Multi-Service Center at 7 PM. It's still officially only a "Quiet Zone request". So I don't expect anything to change for at least another six months.

Looks like the meeting went badly and the project may be altered or scrapped. I don't think its unreasonable to request a quiet zone like they have on the west loop. Full disclosure, I'm a resident. We're not asking the trains be moved or limited in any way, just some adjustments to implement a quiet zone.

[RedScare]

Apparently, many others think the requirements for a Quiet Zone ARE unreasonable. Closing 4 more streets in that area will funnel even more traffic onto the main north-south thoroughfares. I don't mind the horns, so the decrease in north-south access would be more of a bother to me. I don't live on top of the tracks, however.

[Jdorfma1]

Apparently, many others think the requirements for a Quiet Zone ARE unreasonable. Closing 4 more streets in that area will funnel even more traffic onto the main north-south thoroughfares. I don't mind the horns, so the decrease in north-south access would be more of a bother to me. I don't live on top of the tracks, however.

I understand the concern regarding the street closures but I think its short-sighted. The traffic to the area is coming, the development is not stopping. Leaving the short sidestreets like Parker and Roy open across the tracks will only encourage the Yale, Heights, Patterson and Shep/Durham traffic into the neighborhoods when traffic backs up, creating a more dangerous situation of speeding cars racing through the more narrow streets. The proposed closures are all old-school Rice Military side streets that are ill-equipped to handle the north-south traffic that theses residents want to push onto them. The rational decision is to close them down and expand the 4 major north south routes. All the proposed closed streets don't have direct access to I-10 either, creating more complicated traffic patterns (running up Parker to Inker, swinging over to Shep/Dur and trying to get to I-10 that way, for example).

But I live in that neighborhood so I have a vested interest in both shutting the horn and discouraging extra traffic in my side streets. I still feel that is makes sense though, the residents against the street closures have their point of view.

[Jdorfma1]

I understand the concern regarding the street closures but I think its short-sighted. The traffic to the area is coming, the development is not stopping. Leaving the short sidestreets like Parker and Roy open across the tracks will only encourage the Yale, Heights, Patterson and Shep/Durham traffic into the neighborhoods when traffic backs up, creating a more dangerous situation of speeding cars racing through the more narrow streets. The proposed closures are all old-school Rice Military side streets that are ill-equipped to handle the north-south traffic that theses residents want to push onto them. The rational decision is to close them down and expand the 4 major north south routes. All the proposed closed streets don't have direct access to I-10 either, creating more complicated traffic patterns (running up Parker to Inker, swinging over to Shep/Dur and trying to get to I-10 that way, for example).

But I live in that neighborhood so I have a vested interest in both shutting the horn and discouraging extra traffic in my side streets. I still feel that is makes sense though, the residents against the street closures have their point of view.

Oops, just realized that the only closures are now Thompson and Bonner, Parker and roy will remain open. This just backs up my point. Thompson and Bonner do not have direct access to I-10. Why would residents want them to remain open to north-south traffic? Any traffic that bleeds off Yale and Heights will simply have to merge back into that same traffic to get back on I-10. the only way to make these streets usable is to extend them into the I-10 feeder road, which nobody is proposing (and would be silly since there are 4 access points to the frontage road in 3 miles anyway.

Sheesh, I've seen NIMBY but I just don't get this one at all.

[RedScare]

Oops, just realized that the only closures are now Thompson and Bonner, Parker and roy will remain open. This just backs up my point. Thompson and Bonner do not have direct access to I-10. Why would residents want them to remain open to north-south traffic? Any traffic that bleeds off Yale and Heights will simply have to merge back into that same traffic to get back on I-10. the only way to make these streets usable is to extend them into the I-10 feeder road, which nobody is proposing (and would be silly since there are 4 access points to the frontage road in 3 miles anyway.

Sheesh, I've seen NIMBY but I just don't get this one at all.

Heh, this entire thread is NIMBY. Train horns in the hood is NIMBY, closing streets is NIMBY, and not closing streets is NIMBY. In actuality, you have TWO NIMBY arguments...stop the horns and get the traffic off my street.

BTW, closing grid streets NEVER improves traffic flow. By definition, closing streets can only impede it.

I am not against the quiet zone. I am merely on the fence, and I see the points made by your opponents. I am not surprised that you discount them. You have decided that the inconvenience of closed streets is worth it to gain a quiet zone. Clearly, the opponents are not so sure.

[longhornguy]

Well, I live right on one of the proposed street closures and I think JDorf has a point. People shouldn't be using neighborhood side streets to gain access to I-10, attempt to bypass stopped trains, etc.

I have noticed that Bellaire has neighborhoods off of 610 that haveactually closed freeway access to their sidestreets to curb driverscutting through their neighborhoods as a shortcut. I would imaginehaving their children playing in their front yards or riding theirbikes on sidewalks/streets is a big driver.

It seems to me that closing the side streets would force everyone to use the main thoroughfares for North/South access through the neighborhood, which is what is supposed to happen. Patterson and Shepherd should be the streets used as main thoroughfares.

I am extremely surprised that nobody has mentioned the amount of children that play on the streets/yards of the houses facing Thompson. There is actually quite a few families that have great kids that ride their bikes up and down that street.

I am always afraid of some jerk speeding over the railroad crossing grade and not seeing the children on the other side.

Now, these children are from Hispanic families that may or may not speak English very well, so that would explain their absence from the Town Hall meetings.

I think the residents of West End are missing a very big chance to improve the neighborhood and fostor further growth. However, this does sound like some stubborness due to gentrification issues. There is a definite divide of social class groups who have lived with this train for decades, but are definitely not particularly fond of the traffic and growth of younger affluence in the area.

[UpperWestEnder]

Looks like the meeting went badly and the project may be altered or scrapped. I don't think its unreasonable to request a quiet zone like they have on the west loop. Full disclosure, I'm a resident. We're not asking the trains be moved or limited in any way, just some adjustments to implement a quiet zone.

Well, this is very interesting. Thanks for filling us in. I had decided to not attend because I took the plan as pretty much a "done deal". Frankly, I take more of RedScare's perspective. It's NIMBY that I don't want the streets closed, but Thompson and Bonner are the streets I normally take to come into and get out of my neighborhood. I don't want to have to drive all the way down to Patterson or Yale to get to Washington Avenue. That said, should the QuietZone be scrapped the train horns do not bother me. As for the issue of traffic patterns, I'm not aware of anyone currently trying to go down my narrow streets to get to I-10. I really don't see much traffic outside of residents and their guests. The general traffic does seem to flow mostly on Patterson, Shepherd/Durham and Yale.

But I respect Jdorma1 and longhornguy's opinions. If it comes to it, I'm sure I won't miss the train horns and it will prompt more development.

[diggity]

Make your feelings about the quiet zone be known online:

The City has decided to doan electronic form instead of a mail-in comment card for this round ofpublic input. To get the most impact from our voices, we recommendfilling out their comment form in the following way if you are insupport of the Washington Quiet Zone and you want to see it implementedas soon as possible:

First off, make sure to fill our your name, address and phone with complete and CORRECT information.

Then, click on "I DO support the proposed improvements."

Inthe comments section we need to let the City know overwhelmingly thatwe would like the Quiet Zone to move forward as proposed, and asquickly as possible.

[Optional] Our Quiet Zone initiative has beenheralded by the City as one of the most civil and friendly in the City.In the comments, you may want to let them know how much you appreciatetheir continued hard work on this initiative.

Quiet Zone Survey