Socialized Healthcare Medicine: Pros And Cons

[Mark F. Barnes]

I don't read TV's posts, so I'll respond to your summation.

If we can't make socialized medicine work, why can other countries do it? Is it something wrong with our ability to govern, or something about our citizens that makes them ungovernable?

I find this part, in light of all that's going on around us, comical to say the least. Who are they going to put in charge of this, Barney Frank? Or how about a former CEO of Pfizer? Would this be governed by a committee put together in the House or Senate? The bigger problem would be to find enough people beyond reproach, with impeccable credibility, in Washington DC.

[Fringe]

I agree our present system isn't in very good shape but this is just another issue that’s been languishing around the halls of congress for years. Health care here in America is an industry. Industries provide jobs, pay taxes, contribute campaign money and have lobbyists protecting their interests. Nothing is is ever going to happen except a lot of conversation and stalling by congress.

[editor]

Cosmetic surgery should not be provided, except as a result of injury.

This, the doctors would have to reluctantly go along with because of public support.

Keeping terminal patients on life support wouldn’t be covered.

This would become the next Roe v. Wade.

I think that's why I'm in favor of the government being in charge of BASIC health care. Check-ups (medical and dental), some limited preventative care, some pre-natal care, vaccinations, and minor ailments like colds and sprains and things.

Once you start getting into more complicated procedures that cost more, slimier people are going to want to stick their hands in the cookie jar and make a mess for the rest of us; plus you end up with all sorts of moral problems that generate more heat than light.

Keep the health insurance industry, but make them like for car insurance or flood insurance -- there for catastrophic events.

[TexasVines]

I stopped reading after this part.

perfect part of what is wrong with you and a large % of America

my opinion somehow means less because my parents choose to save and have me obtain a college degree VS all those you admire that have kids and just let them run wild from the age of 12 up with no care about what happens to them in the future....what America needs according to you is more dead beat parents that put the burden of their children for EVERYTHING on the US government......I guess you look down on my opinion too because I went to school with a lunch every day or with lunch money....I guess the people you admire are the ones that get food stamps and section 8 and their kids make straight Ds and Fs and come to school having not even eaten in the morning much less with something or some way to eat for lunch.....those are the real people society should value.....people with zero responsibility for their choices

I suppose you discount the opinions of lil johnny edwards, john kerry, and berry soreto because their parents paid for them to go to school or they used some racial set aside to get it handed to them at others expense

even though I am white as rice as a joke I filled in all three check boxes on the PSAT that said I was a minority......based on that and that alone along with my SAT scores I was a national black merit finalist and a national Hispanic merit semifinalist.....so I had the opportunity to impress you by using the color of my skin to get free handouts, but my parents would have none of it....I was living in San Antonio at the time and there were only 3 black people in the entire school so a national black merit finalist raised the eye of the counselor......so I was called down to his office a few days after I got the letter in the mail and he sheepishly beat around the bush until he finally blurted out "you are not black are you".....I knew what the deal was and laughed it off and pretended like I had no clue how that happened and said no and that was that.....being that it was San Antonio and 87% Hispanic at my school he thought nothing of me being a Hispanic merit semifinalist....I got that letter a few days after that and it was made on the announcements the next day when the entire class turned to stare at me and then laughed when I told the teacher I needed to go tell the counselor I was not Mexican........that same counselor about cried when he found that out and even probed further with "not even a grand parent or great grand parent"......I could have lied and received free money and had the admiration of fools like you, but I did the proper thing and said no and just about left him crushed

way to make yourself look like a fool

you also missed the part where I worked most of that time and at one point was working two jobs anyway

grow up and get over the fact that your parents cared nothing about you and your future and others parents do......your parents choose a TV and a new car VS your education mine did not.....sucks for you

again where is the contradiction

my parents CHOOSE to have me....not the US government and the US tax payer....but now somehow because my parents also CHOOSE to care about my future VS dumping it on the US government and the US tax payer my opinion is one to be discounted

after all what made this country great is crack parents, dead beat fathers, out of wed lock births, high school drop outs, and total dependence on the government for everything....it has worked wonders for the black community.....we should seek to emulate it for all Americans

again your post is a perfect example of why enough is enough......we now actually have total losers in this country that discount others opinions because their parents choose to try and provide the best for them VS a video game, a plasma TV, and 22 inch rims

thank you for proving what total selfish losers many in this country have become and what a pathetic group they are when they discount others because their parents wanted more for their children than they did for themselves......I am glad I did not have your parents I would be a bitter fool that is still jealous of what others have VS trying to make something better for myself and not being concerned about taking from others to pay for my CHOICES

Edited October 19, 2008 by TexasVines

[N Judah]

In the future, please do not attack me personally. You do not know me or my family. (And besides, an "ad hom" attack is a logical fallcy.) A little civility goes a long way -- so if you are capable of keeping it on topic, please do so!

Getting back on topic, I like the Massachussetts plan. You get a list of plans (like ehealthinsurance.com) one of which is a supercheap bare bones plan partly subsidized by the taxpayer. That's my understanding of it, anyway.

Edited October 19, 2008 by N Judah
Edited by Editor to remove personal attack

[TexasVines]

I agree that if the government is given total control over the system that it is ripe for abuse. But then again, so is our current system where health care CEOs make $50 million a year while their companies fight to pass laws so they don't have to cover $10 life-saving pap smears.

The difference between the two is that one system is abused by the patients while the other is abused by the providers.

Maybe if the GAO had some teeth or the FDA was funded at an appropriate level then the watchdogs could do their jobs.

so I guess you favor a system like Canada (which I feel for the most part is a well managed country) where the government forbids people from having private insurance.......but then when one of the very government fools that champions that system needs a BASIC procedure and finds she has to wait in line like everyone else she hops on a jet and flies down to the USA to have it done

imagine the outcry if any conservative leader did that in the USA (if it was a liberal leader like in Canada imagine the excuse machine that would have to be cranked up and all of its "carbon" emmisions)

right here from a paper I am sure you are familiar with

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/256600

[editor]

so I guess you favor a system like Canada (which I feel for the most part is a well managed country) where the government forbids people from having private insurance.

The fact that you wrote this illustrates that you haven't read a thing I've written through the entire thread. Multiple times I've advocated a combination of public health care and private insurance. Start again at post #1.

I have deleted two personal attacks from this thread, and if it goes any further off topic, it will be closed.

It's just amazing that you people can't have a civil discussion on any political topic without throwing feces at each other. It's like moderating a thread written by monkeys on Red Bull.

The same rules apply in this section as the rest of HAIF:

- Stay on topic.

- Respect each other.

If that's too difficult for you, then take your surfing elsewhere.

[TexasVines]

The fact that you wrote this illustrates that you haven't read a thing I've written through the entire thread. Multiple times I've advocated a combination of public health care and private insurance. Start again at post #1.

and what about that makes it any different than what we have now......other than under your plan we will actually announce to the deadbeats of the country that we have allowed them to abdicate one more piece of personal responsibility.....as it is now we keep them marginalized right where they belong and last in line for only the most basic of things

name me one government program that has ever SAVED MONEY on anything much less spiraled out of control in cost

I have read your post though I have not committed them all to memory.....I would question some things in them, but I don't want to come across as calling you out personally for the choices you have made

Edited October 19, 2008 by editor
Edited to remove personal attack.

[Mark F. Barnes]

You know I asked nicely for this not to turn into a flame war, I wanted some honest input, both opinions and facts. Al this personal stuff needs to be taken to the schoolyard. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE try and play nicely. I really don't want this thread closed. There is info from both sides that needs to be heard.

[editor]

Since civilized discourse is beyond the grasp of some of the people around here, this thread is closed.