Houston #10 best place for young adults to live.

[N Judah]

I would not be opposed to an alternative to high school. I think vocational education is also a lost art we should bring back.

I agree completely. We should also do something like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_Start

In theory you could do this and be done with college before youre old enough to drink. Then you get to enter the "educated" workforce and pay taxes etc.

[TheNiche]

Absolutely. There is no shame in the trades, and you can make a damn comfortable living at them.

The idea that every child should go to college is why there is such a huge divide in the quality of higher ed in this country. Too many state school systems are clogged with people who are, sad to say, not 4 year degree material. We are not all unique and beautiful snowflakes. I can see a day where the 4 year degree goes away as a final degree, existing only as a stepping stone in post-graduate work, and 2-4 year vocational degrees pick up the slack.

I agree to a point. You're absolutely correct that the notion that maximizing the number of people that go to college erodes the very utility of college, the other side of the coin is that everybody (smart or dumb, educated or not) is allowed one vote. High school ought to be configured, in my opinion, so as that its foremost curriculum is centered on political philosophy, history, and economics. If, beyond that, students are divided between two tracks, one vocational, another for higher education, that'd be totally acceptable.

But it cannot be forgotten that public education is desirable not because I want my kid educated, per se, but because I'm fearful of the neighbor's uneducated kid.

[RedScare]

But it cannot be forgotten that public education is desirable not because I want my kid educated, per se, but because I'm fearful of the neighbor's uneducated kid.

This is absolutely on point. Unfortunately, our educational system has failed many of our tax paying ADULTS, who cannot seem to find the logic in this statement. A vocational education has many advantages. It provides a skilled workforce, which could help reenergize our flagging manufacturing sector. It provides a useable skill to those who recognize that they are not college material. It is often not clear to a teenager what value a generic high school diploma has, when it is only useful to enter 4 more years of college. If that same student recognizes that the high school vocational diploma might get him a $10 per hour starting salary as a mechanic, rather than the $6 per hour job at McDonalds, he may stay in school.

[Trae]

Damn, I got one more year. I'm not even sure if I am college material from the stuff I am reading.

[skyphen]

A vocational education has many advantages. It provides a skilled workforce, which could help reenergize our flagging manufacturing sector. It provides a useable skill to those who recognize that they are not college material. It is often not clear to a teenager what value a generic high school diploma has, when it is only useful to enter 4 more years of college. If that same student recognizes that the high school vocational diploma might get him a $10 per hour starting salary as a mechanic, rather than the $6 per hour job at McDonalds, he may stay in school.

The Houston Press just ran a story on this very topic.

College Immaterial for High School Students in Vocational Training

[The Great Hizzy!]

Vocational schools absolutely have their value, and in more ways than people might consider. It not only allows people who may not be of the mindset at a young age (or any age) to handle college an opportunity to learn a trade or a specialty that they can use towards a career, it can also give them a specialty of which they can make use to start a business. One thing that has always been a big part of Houston's growth and prosperity is the small business person. Part of the failure of public education to educate and graduate so many students is that those students don't see the long term realistic value and they start to check out psychologically from school all together. In their minds, they're asking, how is this "education" going to be applied? What can a high school diploma really do for them down the road beyond maybe getting them a $8/hr gig at Wal*Mart or Sears?

Kids can be rambunctious but they know more about life than some people give them credit.

[VicMan]

Vocational schools absolutely have their value, and in more ways than people might consider. It not only allows people who may not be of the mindset at a young age (or any age) to handle college an opportunity to learn a trade or a specialty that they can use towards a career, it can also give them a specialty of which they can make use to start a business. One thing that has always been a big part of Houston's growth and prosperity is the small business person. Part of the failure of public education to educate and graduate so many students is that those students don't see the long term realistic value and they start to check out psychologically from school all together. In their minds, they're asking, how is this "education" going to be applied? What can a high school diploma really do for them down the road beyond maybe getting them a $8/hr gig at Wal*Mart or Sears?

Kids can be rambunctious but they know more about life than some people give them credit.

The solution is for HISD to publicize Barbara Jordan and to turn Jones into a vocational school and military academy.

[crunchtastic]

High school ought to be configured, in my opinion, so as that its foremost curriculum is centered on political philosophy, history, and economics. If, beyond that, students are divided between two tracks, one vocational, another for higher education, that'd be totally acceptable.

Agree completely, but it assumes a perfect-world of primary and secondary education. Few students entering high school today have the reading comprehension and writing skills to undertake a higher level of study involving rhetoric or critical thinking. So they enter college and spend a couple of lackluster years in survey English, history and poly sci and don't get much out of it and don't much care, because they're trained to focus on a major and usually, a terminal degree. It simply doesn't leave much time to learn the basic humanities (and the rhetorical and critical skills that come with that study), plus another 2 years of focused study. And most, after 4 or 5 years of that, are tapped out financially, making the prospect of grad/professional school less likely.

I think the vocational/academic track needs to be firmly established in the high school curriculum. Like you and Red have alluded to, it could help end the endless loop of low-wage service sector jobs and set the stage for an economic future for kids without higher academic desires or talents.

[Trae]

Most school districts have an entire school dedicated to a vocation. For example, in Katy ISD, we have the Miller Career Center (that is being expanded).

[crunchtastic]

Most school districts have an entire school dedicated to a vocation. For example, in Katy ISD, we have the Miller Career Center (that is being expanded).

If I'm not mistaken, that's named for a teacher at Katy when I was there. If it's the guy I'm thinking of, he was an odd dude-- a vietnam vet, a devoted and generous teacher who started a horticulture program in the early 80s. I should dig out my yearbook and look it up.....

[musicman]

Damn, I got one more year. I'm not even sure if I am college material from the stuff I am reading.

You can read which is a great start. Your first sentence might cause some issues with the English teachers.

[Trae]

I guess so.