Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) in Bogot

[N Judah]

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/28/stre...-brt-in-bogota/

The guys participating in the discussion seem to really know their s--t. I learned quite a bit. This may come in handy when talking about such topics as they relate to Houston's LRT funding woes and potential alternatives.

[editor]

Is this similar to the bus tunnel in Seattle?

[Trae]

Isn't the bus tunnel in Seattle gone? Didn't they put light rail down under there?

[ricco67]

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/28/stre...-brt-in-bogota/

The guys participating in the discussion seem to really know their s--t. I learned quite a bit. This may come in handy when talking about such topics as they relate to Houston's LRT funding woes and potential alternatives.

Good find, Judah. How did you come across this video? It's an excellent contribution to the system. perhaps it should go under the BRT discussion we have (somewhere) around here?

I think their green bus system is an excellent idea that can be used in some neighborhoods. In fact, I wouldn't mind an LRT/BRT hybrid of sorts where "feeder buses" could drop people off at an LRT station.

One thing that I immediately noticed is how they seemed to have closed off at least a couple of streets and have them strictly for BRT, and that is something that I think might have to happen with Westheimer sometime in the not too distant future.

[N Judah]

Seattle's bus tunnel is closed because they are either renovating it or putting LRT through it, I'm not sure.

I found the video when I was looking for stuff about the TransMilenio BRT system in Bogota. I actually haven't watched the video -- I was more interested in the discussion below it. If anything the more I find out about BRT the more I am pretty sure that it is just LRT with rubber tires. I am also unsure that a Houston implementation of BRT would be on par with that of the South American cities which everyone likes to use as an example. Their BRT stations, for example, are nicer than our LRT stations.

[editor]

For this to work in Houston, you'll need bigger barriers between the buses and the regular traffic. Houstonians will drive their SUVs over those little bumps without even thinking about it.

[lockmat]

After reading some of those comments, which haifers have already brought up, I realize now why Metro wanted to begin with BRT until ridership justified LRT on some of the lines. It may be plainly obvious, but I guess I didn't realize that LRT could and does carry many more passengers. Just puttin' 2 and 2 together, finally.

This guy makes a good point too. Maybe I(we?) are underestimating this factor?

The "Magical Property of Rail" conversation I think is actually a far more important one to consider. The conversation needs to be one about sociology as much as anything else. While enthusiasts and pros know that there are not that many differences, the level of interest, rate of adaptation, and level of commitment to use by the riding public are going to vary between the two. My humble opinion on the core of the sociological debate is as follows: With light rail, we're asking people to remember a distant past of streetcars (at least, as primary modes of transit)... Rail has a certain prefab mythology that some (not all) people respond to. When tourists from non-transit oriented parts of the country come to SF, for example, the don't clamor for the bus. The get on the cable car or the F train.

With BRT, we are asking people to get on some unknown quantity. Its appeal is in it's newness as a concept, and it's ability to adapt faster, integrate with existing infrastructure, etc. The downside of the sociological connotations it holds are real, as well. A certain part of the American public has hugely negative connotations of the bus that go back to the 60's, and people don't understand on a visceral level why it is better than a car - same road, same traffic, right? Now, BRT proponents have all the data in the world to dispute that misconception, but the fact is as long as it is called "Bus Rapid Transit" than people will always think of it as getting on "the bus" and not a "transit system"

[Jax]

Ottawa might be another interesting case study. That's the only bus rapid transit tunnel system I've ever been on. As I recall, it wasn't very popular because the busses in the transitway were identical to the city street busses in comfort, noise, and capacity. I often heard people from Ottawa complain that being the nation's capital, they should have a better transit system.

[ricco67]

For this to work in Houston, you'll need bigger barriers between the buses and the regular traffic. Houstonians will drive their SUVs over those little bumps without even thinking about it.

I know it. I almost T-Boned an idiot who wanted to go from some side street (I think near the Bel Air apartments), onto the WEST BOUND on Allen Parkway by simply driving over the medians. Considering the car behind me almost Smacked ME, I WISHED I would have Tboned him...I need a new car.

[musicman]

when the system lowers cross town travel times from 2:00 - 2:15 to 55 mins, that's why people use it. it is all about saving time for the commuter.

[woolie]

For this to work in Houston, you'll need bigger barriers between the buses and the regular traffic. Houstonians will drive their SUVs over those little bumps without even thinking about it.

I live near Wheeler station. Pretty much every single time I go through the MAIN/Wheeler intersection, someone going northbound on MAIN does not make the lane change indicated on the pavement and goes onto the tracks. They go for about half a block before realizing their error. It's most amusing when several cars follow each other onto the tracks.

Oh, and people are ____ing stupid and don't read signs. The BIG SIGN that says "STOP HERE ON RED." No, they pull as far up as they can, well past the swing arms and ONTO the tracks.

Any metro cop that needs to meet their quota could fill it in an hour at this location.

Edit: MAIN not FANNIN

[musicman]

I live near Wheeler station. Pretty much every single time I go through the Fannin/Wheeler intersection, someone going northbound on Fannin does not make the lane change indicated on the pavement and goes onto the tracks.

if someone's going northbound on fannin, i'd be worried about having a head on collision.

[BrickStamp]

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/28/stre...-brt-in-bogota/

The guys participating in the discussion seem to really know their s--t. I learned quite a bit. This may come in handy when talking about such topics as they relate to Houston's LRT funding woes and potential alternatives.

Wow, what an amazing video... thanks for posting. It would be so great to have something like that here, with the bikes feeding into it...

[N Judah]

BRT, in the South American examples, also has a paid-fare zone (meaning that, in theory, you could pay once and ride around all day, as an example). Considering we don't even have that for our LRT, is it reasonable to expect that for BRT?

BRT done correctly (as per the South American examples) also has stuff like grade-elevation, totally dedicated lanes, and is not hung up on red lights. This is how they achieve the supposed 25-mph speeds. So the issue about the Magnolia TC and U.P. ROW would exist for BRT, not just LRT, if that is what we wanted to do. So how exactly is BRT a solution to any of our qualms about LRT?

[BrickStamp]

BRT, in the South American examples, also has a paid-fare zone (meaning that, in theory, you could pay once and ride around all day, as an example). Considering we don't even have that for our LRT, is it reasonable to expect that for BRT?

BRT done correctly (as per the South American examples) also has stuff like grade-elevation, totally dedicated lanes, and is not hung up on red lights. This is how they achieve the supposed 25-mph speeds. So the issue about the Magnolia TC and U.P. ROW would exist for BRT, not just LRT, if that is what we wanted to do. So how exactly is BRT a solution to any of our qualms about LRT?

I'm not sure it answers the concerns about LRT (such as stopping at lights, interrupting the flow of cross-line traffic). But it certainly seems like a more cost-efficient solution than LRT. And if there were a dedicated lane, you might get less of that roller-coaster swerving and lurching that the regular buses seems to do. Maybe fewer run-ins (run-overs) wtih pedestrians, cars, too. City buses as they are now are a menace to anyone else on or near the road.

[Chamo]

http://www.streetsblog.org/2008/01/28/stre...-brt-in-bogota/

Back in the late 90's a friend of mine came to Houston to visit..... He was part of the TRASMILENIO development team down there; After seeing some of the long METRO buses here, he brought the idea to the table. So there is something out of Houston in their system!

It actually works pretty good. Main problem they have had is security in the buses (New York Subway at 11p.m. anybody?).

Bogota has some other interesting not well know approaches to reduce traffic; very interesting for a city with more than 7 million people:

- They have what is called the "No Car day". It is a day that no private cars are allowed on the streets. You have to either use public transportation (Bus or Taxi) or get your bicycle out and do some exercise. Only private traffic allowed is Emergency Vehicles or Mass transportation (Company buses, school buses, etc.) It happens once every six months to a year.

- During the week since they have no HOV, they change direction of several roads at peak hours.... Houston learned the hard way about it during Rita Evacuation. It works pretty good, but of course there is always the pedestrian that looked for traffic on the wrong side.

- Also during the week at peak hours on the core of the city there are restrictions based on the final number of your license plate (Again only applicable to private cars). Let say that my plate ends with a 1, I cannot drive my car at peak hours Monday & Thursday for example. It makes you either get a second car, use public tansportation or leave very early/or late to and from work.

All decent concepts, but to give you guys an idea of what is like down there, from my house to my school, with a distance of no mor than 10-12 miles, it would take me between 1 hour to an 1-1/2 hours at peak times for a one way trip.

[woolie]

if someone's going northbound on fannin, i'd be worried about having a head on collision.

Sorry, I meant Main.

[N Judah]

I'm not sure it answers the concerns about LRT (such as stopping at lights, interrupting the flow of cross-line traffic). But it certainly seems like a more cost-efficient solution than LRT. And if there were a dedicated lane, you might get less of that roller-coaster swerving and lurching that the regular buses seems to do. Maybe fewer run-ins (run-overs) wtih pedestrians, cars, too. City buses as they are now are a menace to anyone else on or near the road.

If Houston's idiotic drivers are kamikazeing into LRT trains (which are on dedicated lanes) how would a dedicated BRT bus lane solve anything? I think no matter what transit system we implement, Houston drivers' entitlement complex will manifest itself somehow, and dangerously. Remember when we gave high occupancy drivers their own special 'HOV' lane? People found a way to drive the wrong way down those things, resulting in fatal head-on collisions. Of course it's not that bad now but it did take a few years.

Hmm, this brings me back to the elevated/subway "heavy rail" thing...