Newsweek Article On Texas Co2

[webdude]

This is an awesome win ppl, if Texas businesses/community can continue the same kind of attitude and excuses like in this thread, in spite of these reports, then we shall have no problem claiming the top prize next time. One of the top polluters is not enough, we need to be the top. Go Texas. More pickups and suvs.

[WilliamHey]

Really nice place, i dont know where is it neither .

[Subdude]

he bottom line is that our regional air pollution issues are really very localized, and typically don't affect residences. This is in stark contrast to places such as LA, which have historically had major problems that actually were regional in scope. The EPA has recognized that Houston complies pretty well with the spirit of the law, and they've cut us a break in the past where the consequences are concerned.

So you see, if is only polluted in places like Pasadena, then there really is no problem. It's all misleading measurements! And we have wind! And that is why we don't have the optimal number of deaths from pollution!

Anyway, I am curious as to why we are a leader - if that is the word - in CO2. I would assume a heavy concentration of industry and inefficient cars. It would be interesting to see what changes would result from a nationwide "cap and trade" market.

Note merged dupe topics.

[TheNiche]

Anyway, I am curious as to why we are a leader - if that is the word - in CO2. I would assume a heavy concentration of industry and inefficient cars. It would be interesting to see what changes would result from a nationwide "cap and trade" market.

You think it might have anything to do with the combination of having the nation's second largest population, being the second-largest state (behind the state with the least population), and having a manufacturing base that is disproportionately fossil-fuel-intensive? Cars really aren't the big bad boogeyman that they're typically made out to be; the big culprits in the grand scheme are electricity production and industry. There really isn't much mystery to this.

Cap and Trade on CO2 means three things: 1) initially, only those industries with the best profit margins can survive, 2) then energy-intensive manufacturing processes are outsourced to countries that aren't bound to that legislation, and possibly 3) longer out, innovation gets spurred to engage in the same manufacturing process with a lower carbon footprint. In any case, what consumers experience is scarcity-driven then currency-driven inflation. Not fun.

[RedScare]

Texas still outpaces the combined emissions of California and Pennsylvania, the states with the second- and third-highest CO2 outputs.

Population of California - 36.5 million

Population Pennsylvania - 12.5 million

Combined population - 49 million

Population Texas - 23.5 million

[Subdude]

Cap and Trade on CO2 means three things: 1) initially, only those industries with the best profit margins can survive, 2) then energy-intensive manufacturing processes are outsourced to countries that aren't bound to that legislation, and possibly 3) longer out, innovation gets spurred to engage in the same manufacturing process with a lower carbon footprint. In any case, what consumers experience is scarcity-driven then currency-driven inflation. Not fun.

Forgive me for saying this, but do you have any particular evidence for these sweeping assertions, or are they just things you would like to be true? The EU ETS cap and trade regime is in operation, and it has hardly been driving industries out of business. Believe it or not, some are benefiting quite handily from it. A lot of energy-intensive manufacturing ends up in other countries anyway, but the big impact of cap and trade is directed at ones that aren't going anywhere, viz. power generation. The problem with simplistic predictions apparently drawn from Ec 101 textbooks is that they ignore the ability of firms to change behavior, adapt, and innovate. That is the same mistake that other alarmists made back in the 1970s predicting the world would starve.

By way of background, I should add that part of my job consists of ongoing assessment of my firm's ETS CO2 position. I'm far from an expert in the field, but I do need to at least understand the basics of the carbon markets. Believe me, the sky is hardly falling down because of it.

[TheNiche]

The EU ETS cap and trade regime is in operation, and it has hardly been driving industries out of business. Believe it or not, some are benefiting quite handily from it. A lot of energy-intensive manufacturing ends up in other countries anyway, but the big impact of cap and trade is directed at ones that aren't going anywhere, viz. power generation. The problem with simplistic predictions apparently drawn from Ec 101 textbooks is that they ignore the ability of firms to change behavior, adapt, and innovate. That is the same mistake that other alarmists made back in the 1970s predicting the world would starve.

By way of background, I should add that part of my job consists of ongoing assessment of my firm's ETS CO2 position. I'm far from an expert in the field, but I do need to at least understand the basics of the carbon markets. Believe me, the sky is hardly falling down because of it.

The specific impact of a cap (especially among individual firms, like yours) is in large part dependent upon how it is implemented, I'll grant you that much. But if industrial CO2 output is regulated by way of a cap and trade system, as the economy grows, it is limited in how it can grow. Tradeoffs must be made or impacts must be mitigated (as you put it, "firms change behavior, adapt, and innovate), but that isn't free. To the extent that there are additional costs associated with either buying carbon credits or utilizing alternative production methods, they get passed on to the consumer. To the extent that it is less expensive to pick up and move to a less restrictive country, that's also a viable option for many firms.

I don't really understand how you're comparing me to the Club of Rome or Chicken Little. You can't ignore the reality that there is no such thing as a free lunch.