Wayne Dolcefino's latest report on teachers

[musicman]

In many alternative certification programs, including HISD's, some teachers have to take the THEA test.

A sample of THAT test is here: http://www.thea.nesinc.com/practice.htm

a looked at several of the math questions. the person(s) who made the test did a good job because the wrong answers look right if you were to have the wrong logic. i do think that there should be some basic competency and that teachers MUST pass. leaving teachers that fail in the system hurts our children.

Edited May 12, 2007 by musicman

[bachanon]

The solution to that is to simply let the schools that receive transfer students kick out kids who misbehave (not too difficult to do) - In fact, that's the policy of the magnet schools here. I.E., after the 2005-2006 school year, I heard from friends that even kids with constant tardiness got the boot at Lamar.

That's different from plain-old-rezoning (I.E. Grady) where an entire apartment complex is assigned to a school and therefore not easily kicked out. In fact, according to my ideas, the zoning boundaries would NOT change much at all (the only HISD territory that would be rezoned to Memorial HS, for instance, would be the sections of Piney Point Village and Hunters Creek Village currently in HISD).

My sister, who attended the large Lamar, has no "survival" skills, whatever that means.

isn't it true that schools are funded based on student attendance? if this is so, what would be the motivation for getting rid of poor performing students?

[VicMan]

Poor-performing and behaving students may threaten the school's TEA ratings and local reputation.

isn't it true that schools are funded based on student attendance? if this is so, what would be the motivation for getting rid of poor performing students?

Edited May 13, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

Poor-performing and behaving students may threaten the school's TEA ratings and local reputation.

"may threaten" doesn't sound like it has any bite.

[RedScare]

Its the safety and security that allows the kids to learn, attracts teachers that don't want to be killed, that is the difference.

I haven't been paying much attention. When did a teacher get killed?

[VicMan]

"may threaten" doesn't sound like it has any bite.

In that case, I will rephrase it by changing a word: "Poor-performing and behaving students may ruin the school's TEA ratings and local reputation."

I would be afraid of any repercussions of violent incidents and/or failing TAKS scores, so I would be all too happy to get rid of a transfer student who does not care about his coursework and/or starts a major fight.

[KatieDidIt]

I haven't been paying much attention. When did a teacher get killed?

They haven't been killed, its the perception that they will. Take a female, UT Grad with a Masters in Education with high scores in whatever the education board throws at her.... Where is she going to want to teach? A school with kids that are at risk, therefore she is at risk? No.

[musicman]

In that case, I will rephrase it by changing a word: "Poor-performing and behaving students may ruin the school's TEA ratings and local reputation."

"may ruin" sounds weak too. i thought you would say ruins in this instance. if it doesn't ruin the school's rating and reputation, then there's a problem.

Edited May 13, 2007 by musicman

[RedScare]

They haven't been killed, its the perception that they will. Take a female, UT Grad with a Masters in Education with high scores in whatever the education board throws at her.... Where is she going to want to teach? A school with kids that are at risk, therefore she is at risk? No.

If they haven't been killed, how would one get the perception that they will be? Are they just stupid? In your hypothetical, which part makes them unable to deal with reality...."female", "UT Grad", or "Masters in Education"?

Katie, I realize that living where you do, you come into contact with teachers that do in fact think the way you describe. That is a big part of why they live and teach out there. However, living where I do, I come into contact with teachers on a regular basis that teach in inner city schools BECAUSE it is a challenge. I admire them greatly for their determination to make a difference. I wish Wayne Dolcefino would report THAT stunning revelation, rather than taking the easy road of pointing out that it is tough to hire great teachers with the sorry salaries that Texas schools pay.

[bachanon]

nuns seem to do a pretty good job teaching without a big salary, as do many home schooling parents. i think being a good teacher has little to do with salary. i think the real problem is a system that allows sorry teachers to keep their jobs.

btw, the idea that every kid needs to prepare for college and not a trade is a major issue. kids who show no aptitude for learning should not be required to attend school for 12 years. apprenticeships and trade schools for a certain segment of the school population would solve a host of problems. high school is an unnatural and historically recent construct (camille paglia).

[musicman]

i think the real problem is a system that allows sorry teachers to keep their jobs.

concur.

[KatieDidIt]

Katie, I realize that living where you do

oh good grief. I've lived here less than three years and I'm getting the hell out so don't lump in me in with the "up here's."

I went to public High School in Miami with the children of Coumbian drug lords and the Cubans fresh of the rafts. My sisters went to Williams High School in Semi-Rural BUrlington NC. Where if, I remember correctly, the principal did some serious ass kicking to trouble makers.

I have a lot of firends, and a sister, who are teachers. My sister got mugged at that inner city school in DC by an unhappy 13 year old FEMALE. SHe's a great gal from a great family with a Masters from UVA and a huge heart. Yeah, she'd rather teach in the affluent hood or the suburbs anyday. Today she teaches at a private academy in Alexandria.

The schools with the bad kids DO get the bottom of barrel when it comes to teachers. You have a few, like my sister, that try to do the right thing though. Usually they get beaten down by the system and move on.

I think that public education's hands are so tied by today's SUE HAPPY society. Just think, if they could expel freely and actually FIRE teachers (which I understand is almost impossible to do) how much better the system is. That crazy teachers union is a nightmare.

[VicMan]

I have a lot of firends, and a sister, who are teachers. My sister got mugged at that inner city school in DC by an unhappy 13 year old FEMALE. SHe's a great gal from a great family with a Masters from UVA and a huge heart. Yeah, she'd rather teach in the affluent hood or the suburbs anyday. Today she teaches at a private academy in Alexandria.

The schools with the bad kids DO get the bottom of barrel when it comes to teachers. You have a few, like my sister, that try to do the right thing though. Usually they get beaten down by the system and move on.

That reminds me - I loved reading Richard Geib's account of teaching at Berendo Middle School in Los Angeles in the 1990s.

See it here: http://www.rjgeib.com/biography/inner-city...s/innerblu.html

I say that Geib's experience mirrors your sister's in many ways, KatieDid.

Edited May 13, 2007 by VicMan

[TheNiche]

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/teachers/districtgrades.pdf

Houston ISD has a "61" grade for certified teachers.

North Forest ISD has a "34"

Someone, please, we can organize a large, loud protest where we yell at the NFISD administration and try to force the district to consolidate?

From a practical standpoint, would an NFISD/HISD merger do more to improve NFISD or just drag down HISD's numbers and credibility? After all, both districts have administrative problems and I seriously doubt that the first step in improving the old NFISD schools would be to simply fire and replace all the teachers.

HISD has advantages and disadvantages.

Advantages:

* Major tax bases

* Magnet programs (ability to select schools of desire)

* District resources that result from tax bases

Disadvantages:

* Divisive racial politics

* Typical urban politics

* Lack of neighborhood support for education in some areas

So, the mixed HISD gets 61% - Now, the problem with North Forest is that it has all of the disadvantages and none of the advantages held by HISD. There are no alternate schools. There are few businesses willing to support NFISD.

You'd think that the tax base would matter, but the reality is often skewed by State and Federal contributions. There are many school districts along the border for instance that have terrible tax base but don't set the tax rates very high and still receive enough money from outside the district to make twice the amount of expenditures per student of a typical suburban school district of a major metro area...and they still have incredible dropout rates. It only furthers the argument that money is not a solution. The management of money on the other hand...

Part of HISD's problem is the conduct and behavior of its students and the apathy of its parents. The more dangerous the school, the less a quality teacher wants to be there. I think HISD should be able to kick more kids out. Its great to want to educate, but when kids rarely attend school and try to threathen the ones that are trying when they are there...get rid of them. They "don't want no education" anyway. They rather be out terrorizing and taggin' cars. No kids left behind is a great theory, but leave the ones behind that want to be there and focus on the ones that want to get out.

The base of the matter is, I don't think the QUALITY of the education in SBISD and HISD are really that different. Its the safety and security that allows the kids to learn, attracts teachers that don't want to be killed, that is the difference.

When it comes to the line infantry of teachers, those with a bachelors degree and a teaching certificate, fresh out of college, this is correct. Most of them don't want to teach inner-city schools and have to get paid a premium to motivate new recruits...think of it as a form of hazard pay. The dangers may or may not actually exist, but they are perceived, and that is enough to cause this pattern. On the other hand, the highly-educated teachers tend to be highly-motivated (they must be, considering how little school districts are willing to pay for additional education) and are more prone to gravitate voluntarily to inner-city districts. Makes them feel good about themselves. On the whole, though, they make up a small fraction of all teachers, and they make a disproportionately large, though still small impact as a group. So your point stands.

Unfortunately, though, it is not enough to just kick out the kids that don't want to learn. One of the great unrecognized functions of public schools is to keep youth off the streets while adults are at work. Send all the delinquents home and your crime rate goes up. It would be better to make vouchers available for parents that want to send their kids to a private school.

[VicMan]

You'd think that the tax base would matter, but the reality is often skewed by State and Federal contributions. There are many school districts along the border for instance that have terrible tax base but don't set the tax rates very high and still receive enough money from outside the district to make twice the amount of expenditures per student of a typical suburban school district of a major metro area...and they still have incredible dropout rates. It only furthers the argument that money is not a solution. The management of money on the other hand...

The management of money is muddled by typical urban politics (precisely one of the disadvantages). One of the issues includes the fact that too many administrators exist in HISD (and take money that could be used for other purposes) - We ought to convince some to retire and then remove the positions so that the administration can be reduced to an optimal number.

In 2004, HISD was a donor district under Robin Hood (Harvin Moore, a board member, stated so here: http://www.groupbuilder.net/uploads/afton_...release_num=865 ). Since the rules changed, I do not know if HISD is still a donor district.

From a practical standpoint, would an NFISD/HISD merger do more to improve NFISD or just drag down HISD's numbers and credibility? After all, both districts have administrative problems and I seriously doubt that the first step in improving the old NFISD schools would be to simply fire and replace all the teachers.

Firing all of the old teachers right away would destabilize the schools in NFISD. Rather, tell the teachers that a "new order" has arrived and then slowly get rid of teachers who cannot comply with it (i.e. teachers who cannot receive passing grades in their own competency tests in three tries).

A takeover of NFISD would not suddenly turn all of the schools into academic bastions. Yet, I feel like merging NFISD into HISD (or Aldine ISD, or split it between both) would give the students better chances by allowing them to transfer to other schools if their own schools fail. It would give the schools of NFISD a better administration (even with the weight of urban politics).

See, I want to make North Forest more attractive so that residents pushed out of gentrifying areas would develop the community.

Despite the fact that NFISD is not gentrifying, NFISD is LOSING students - it went below 10,000 I believe last year or the year before (I forget the exact year).

Edited May 14, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

They haven't been killed, its the perception that they will. Take a female, UT Grad with a Masters in Education with high scores in whatever the education board throws at her.... Where is she going to want to teach? A school with kids that are at risk, therefore she is at risk? No.

Worthing High School teacher said today she is too scared

[VicMan]

Unlike the actual North Forest territory, I know that people are moving into the Worthing attendance zone. However, the enrollment at Worthing is decreasing despite the new developments in the south side (on the other hand, Madison High School's population is increasing).

See: http://www.schooldigger.com/go/TX/schools/...619/school.aspx

Some kids who went to my magnet school transferred to Worthing during their senior years in order to get the class rank to get to UT/A&M - That speaks volumes about Worthing.

Also, from: http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2005_3900502

"Margaret Tomlinson said she regrets her decision to let her son graduate from low-performing Worthing High School last May.

So this fall, Tomlinson persuaded her daughter to enroll as a freshman at HISD's Challenge Early College High School instead.

"I had to give her a chance," Tomlinson said. "I was very dissatisfied with the school." "

Worthing High School teacher said today she is too scared — and too bruised on the left side of her face — to return to work after a student repeatedly punched her in class last week.

The student was charged with felony assault on a public servant and will not return to the school, according to Terry Abbott, spokesman for the Houston Independent School District.

Vanesta Marshall, a home economics teacher at Worthing who stands about five feet four inches tall, said she remembers a ninth-grade male student punching her in the face two or three times before she blacked out. The other students in the class counted seven or eight blows, she said.

The student became angry and started spouting profanity after Marshall scolded him for not bringing his notebook to class, she said. Marshall then escorted the student to school security, and when he came back to class, she asked him if he had paperwork allowing him to return.

He got angry again, she said, and lifted a chair. Then, Marshall said, she was walking to her desk to call security when the first blow came. The punches kept coming, and several students tried to stop the teenager.

full article

Edited May 14, 2007 by VicMan

[musicman]

it seems the teachers' unions complained and a lawmaker rob eissler of the woodlands got a bill thru which banned public dissemination of the ratings.

[VicMan]

If this bill passed:

* Get Eissler's constituents to vote him out of office

* Find out who else voted for the bill, and inform their constituents of that vote

This is a STUPID move.

EDIT: I am trying to find the text of the actual bill on the guy's website. ABC should state the name of the bill so I can see the provisions of the bill and (if the bill is passed) who voted for it.

See: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=5401295

it seems the teachers' unions complained and a lawmaker rob eissler of the woodlands got a bill thru which banned public dissemination of the ratings.

Edited June 20, 2007 by VicMan

[mrfootball]

He was very unapologetic about it and somewhat apathetic about the concerns of the taxpayers.

[VicMan]

He was very unapologetic about it and somewhat apathetic about the concerns of the taxpayers.

I know the Woodlands is a suburban, family area with parents who are concerned about education. Doesn't he realize that he is committing political suicide?

[hlraphael]

Thanks for posting this. This is such important information for parents to have. I am a fully certified elementary school teacher (1-8), Early chilhood specialization (PK-1), English as Second Language, and Gifted certified. I have been staying home with my daughter for a few years or else my stats would be on AISD. I looked up some teachers that I remember as being questionable, and guess what- they flunked MANY times. I have taken and passed these tests with an A or B. They aren't that difficult, and any reasonably prepared teacher should pass the 1st time. (Alternative Certification teachers are sometimes an exception because they got their degree in a field other than education. Sometimes they fail on the 1st attempt because they don't have an "education" background. I would never put my daughter in a classroom where the teacher failed the tests!!!