samagon

Someone told me that it's concerned neighbors from the Heights who feel that the signs are ugly and distract from the historic quality of their neighborhood

understandable misinformation then. Not much you can do with bad reporting, and secretive numbers. and if Dirt Bar were in my neighborhood I'd be glad of ANY retail that promised to get rid of it, walmart, kohls, saks, whatever, just bulldoze that place into the bayou already! guess we'll see, I had heard people reporting that in current configuration, Yale alone can handle the necessary traffic increase (someone mentioned it after the meeting Wednesday in this thread, and I certainly can't confirm), so who knows whether this street is necessary to be built out, or just hopeful from the developer to continue and reduce the traffic load on Yale for you guys who use it all the time.

I was always under the assumption that it just going to be within the boundaries of koehler, boner, RR track, yale. I guess for the walmart itself that's true, but the entire development site will span to between yale and heights. Nice to see they are going to run koehler to 2nd street. I'd assume the white space is land either not for sale, or owned by someone else. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Interesting that some people in this thread are saying that the walmart itself is going to be over 200k SF, but looking at the rendering, they only show 150k SF... what other misinformation have people on here who are against the walmart been spreading? I mean, I'm not saying that they are purposefully spreading lies, just that they may have been misinformed, and are spreading that misinformation on as fact. To me it makes me feel like the people perpetuating this misinformation are trying to spark fear in everyone in the hopes that we join their cause against the walmart. The bad thing about that is that all it does it weaken any truths they are saying along with the misinformation, and it makes me feel that they are disingenuous. edit: It's hard to tell, but lining this up with google maps, is dirt bar part of this deal? Not that I really care, I mean overpriced drinks at a place that's trying to be a dive bar with coke heads all over isn't really my thing, but I have a few friends that love the place.

I saw more artist renderings of the site than the two linked earlier. are those online anywhere? They actually looked pretty decent.

Ha, I had written PBR or LoneStar, then decided to delete and stick with just PBR, thanks for calling me out on it we still have those signs in my neighborhood, but if a chicken wonders into my yard and starts tearing my garden all up, she needs some rice to help calm down. extra extra points if you walked there with your fixie, or am I confusing that place with Agora in Montrose?

there are exceptions to every rule, and I wish you joy while living in the Heights! One can never pass the age of pulling off skinny jeans, it's all a state of mind. At least that's what I tell myself whenever I put them on. But, if you want to embrace the hipster without dressing up, or riding a fixie, you need to trade the wine and martinis for a PBR

How much money is going to be generated from that land in the form of property tax? A big slab of concrete surely has a lower property value (and thus a lower property tax) than a fully developed retail space. I think it's nice to see our government investing some money to not only ensure that they can get increased revenues in the future, but by being able to ensure the developer doesn't ruin the neighborhood, they can increase property tax revenues across the board. That's a breath of fresh air to see a government using some funds to ensure better returns in the future. Most governments don't look 6 months in the future. valid question, didn't see this posed earlier in the thread, and I must admit, that I haven't read the whole thing, but perhaps you could have directed our misguided understanding to read a specific response to this thread that outlined this concern. Perhaps they are going to include the same amount of non-concrete land in the project, in the form of medians, or walkways with permeable surface. first it is 870k not 780k. Walmart makes that number known as people believe that Walmart gets tax breaks. They state the sales tax as a rebuttal to that claim. So whether the taxes are going through target or walmart are of no consequence, since that wasn't the question. The questions you should be asking are, how much will this location generate in property tax, compared to what is generated from that location right now? Surely a fully developed retail location will be worth more in property taxes than a slab of concrete with some rubble on it. Where would one go to find out whether TxDOT has approved or not? If it is unclear, then why not ask the appropriate people for some clarity? asserting ones rights to free speech, in an effort to ensure that the area is going to benefit from any addition, is part of what makes America as great as it is, but, in all fairness... I think that what erodes the validity of the arguments you have just posed, and that have been posed in this thread, is Where was this same opposition to the Target when it was being developed? How much money did the city invest to ensure that it didn't ruin the neighborhood? I don't see a retention pond at the location at all, why wasn't it done at that location? How much of the sales tax that Target pays out to the city was just taken from other stores? Were all of the road improvements completely known when the project began? edit, and the $11ty billion question: The plan of the landowner was to sell this for it to be developed, whether it was Walmart or someone else, would you still have these concerns, and would you voice them as vocally if it were any other retailer than Walmart?

to say that he is too removed from the heart of the issue is not for you to decide, he has as much as stake for standing up for what he believes in as you have at stake for standing up for what you believe in.

I see what you did there. This I can agree with 100% being a semi-hipster myself (I own a pair of tight jeans, a shirt with pearl snaps and not one, but two fixed gear bikes) the Heights doesn't have the right vibe for living, it just feels like everyone is trying too hard.

sex shop != Walmart. There are legitimate concerns for families that may be living right next door to a shop that has blow up dolls in the windows that their kids have to look at. I assume you're just using the extreme example to prove a point. At any rate, hypocrisy doesn't enter into his opinion of what a snob is. If he were to stand up against the sex shop, he would be a self described snob, not a hypocrite.

What were the arguments against the Target? Are they the same as those against the Walmart? How has Target impacted the area compared to what was used as the anti-Target campaign?

precisely, the requirements on parking will limit the amount of space available for the store itself, unless they build up.

as far as being less than half a mile from the beginning of the residential areas of the heights, the name of the residential area doesn't matter. You say it as if it has some special significance over other neighborhoods in Houston. you say that it is 1/10th of a mile from the freeway like it's a bad thing. The closer this store is to a freeway the better it will be for the residents, and the lower impact it will have on the area for people who use the freeway to get to and away from the walmart. That is pretty easy to see. In fact, you don't have to travel out of the city, then out of the state, then across half an ocean to get a comparable store. You can look right here. 610/PostOak and Belfort has an apartment complex directly behind it, and single family residence on the remaining 3 sides, the same as the heights, but closer to Walmart in this case. Belfort is only 2 lanes in each direction here (of course the entrance to the store is about 1/4 of a mile from belfort through the parking lot). 610 feeder is 3 lanes, but you can only go north, if you want to go south, you have to either uturn at Braeswood 1/4 mile up the road, or you can drive down to Belfort. the other small road that connects to the parking lot of Walmart is Meyer Park Blvd which ends at Belfort or the south610 feeder. Actually, looking at the location at 610/PostOak and Belfort, and then the proposed site near the heights, this location looks to have similar restrictions as far as traffic as the heights location will. I've been to that Walmart (and driven around the surrounding area) and have experienced no issues with mobility.

Also, if you go to Disney World, there is a WalMart right in the middle of all the tourist traps, and the tourist traps there are thriving (as are the Disney Shops on the property).

You can't blame WalMart for wanting to adjust their concept to match the re-urbanization of large cities. The point that was made is in direct answer to jobs being lost from local businesses. Houston is so large and diverse that these specialty stores won't lose traffic, and in fact, by bringing more people to this area, it may increase the local business sales. Of course, as we can't read the future, we can't really say for sure whether it will positively impact the local businesses or not, but I am confident that it won't impact the majority of them negatively. Have you done the traffic studies, or the predictive analysis on the impact that this unknown store will generate? How do you know that this store will generate more than 10000 cars per day if it is a new concept? Where did you get the numbers from? But, with a city the size of Houston with millions that are possible customers, the ones that will shop at these local businesses will continue to support the locals. Has the chilis at Target negatively impacted the local businesses? Have the specialty stores been affected because of Target itself? What about any small pet stores in the Heights? were they negatively impacted by the big box pet store? I mean, with your reference to more than 10000 cars coming into the area, if those are 10000 cars that would never have been in the area anyway, doesn't it stand to reason that even if 1% of those people per day decide to go to a local store/restaurant in the area, that it will do even better for the local stores? Home Depot and Lowes have a nursery section, but that hasn't put Buchanans out of business, and as I understand the only reason Teas closed was because the family didn't want to continue to run the business, not because they weren't doing well (and I can attest to that, as I had been going there my whole life up until a month before they closed, and they were just as busy as ever). Houston is diverse and large enough to support many different businesses in the same area. I don't pretend to understand the reasoning for why WalMart chose this location over others, but they probably chose it because of the easy freeway access, and that this particular freeway access location is located centrally to other freeway interchanges that make it easy to move in all directions of the city. On top of that, it is fairly centrally located to various different areas that are not easy to get to from freeways.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/2000/07/31/story4.html yep, but revisionist history is where it's at. not saying the people that have commented on why the HEB closed that location were revising history, but they are passing on rumor without verifying the validity of the claims.

didn't forget Kroger, Fiesta, or the others, I know that area about as well as the guy I responded to knows the area around UH, I used google maps to find the closest places. Anyway, they don't talk about only a grocery store, I suggest you go and look at their website. and to add to the point that I was making to the guy I was responding to, yes, I agree east and southeast Houston are needing some options for grocery, and in general. if I want a place like walmart or target, I have to drive down 45 to walmart on almeda, or up to target on i10, but then, where could something closer to UH be? (I live only half a mile from UH, so that location works well for me), gulfgate maybe? something closer to navigation, or maybe harrisburg? Anyway, that's for another discussion.

hmmm... there's a HEB on Scott/OST (2.2 miles from Elgin/Cullen) there's a Kroger on Cullen/Polk (0.9 miles from Elgin/Cullen) there's a Randalls on Louisiana/Hadley (2.9 miles from Elgin/Cullen) there's a Fiesta on San Jacinto/Wheeler (2.9 miles from Elgin/Cullen) I mean, you can't just walk across the street and be serviced by a Randalls or whatever, but there's plenty close by. For comparison... there's a Kroger on wGray/Woodhead (2.5 miles from 6th/Heights) afaik the closest Randall's is the same as above, Louisiana/Hadley (4 miles from 6th/Heights) Fiesta on Allgreg/Studewood (1.4 Miles from 6th/Heights) HEB on TC Jester/18th (2.9 miles from 6th/Heights) so yeah, unless there are closer places in the Heights that I can't see on Google maps, they are both serviced about the same currently. One thing I can't see is where they would put a walmart on the east side near UH campus. The fingers lot would have been a great opportunity (and I'm sure they would have loved to get their hands on it), but otherwise, I don't think there are many sites as big as even the space on Yale. I'm certainly not aware of any that are available?

did you just look at the site layout and decide that they looked the same, so the content was the same? the different sites have a similar look and feel, what's so bad about that? if I go to bestbuy.com the refrigerator section of the online store looks the same as the tv section, so what? the same can be said of any online retailer, or anything online for that matter. you know, Continental Airlines released a press release about stopping food service in the same format as the press release about charging for each piece of checked baggage, as a matter of fact, the press release that said they were joining another airline was the same format too, I guess that means that the content of the individual press releases is completely invalid. the content is completely different and specifically generated to address the concerns of the specific area the site is targeted to reach. I guess I just don't understand how the layout of the site has anything to do with the quality or validity of the content held within? to your point about the site being disingenuous, where does the site talk about the area needing just a grocery store? this is the closest I can find. That sentence says that grocery and pharmacy are only 2 examples of the basic services the store plans to provide, not that those are the ONLY services they are going to provide, nor does it even seem to imply it. and it certainly doesn't imply that a grocery store/pharmacy is all the area needs. I also found the above. that still doesn't say that grocery/pharmacy is all the area needs, nor does it say it is all it will deliver to the area. I will admit that they focus on grocery and pharmacy on the houston PR site, but if the reports of a 200k sq/ft store size are accurate, then we're talking a supercenter, which contain both grocery and pharmacy.

Good points for you and LookyHere. I can say with confidence that WalMart does take security and safety of customers seriously, go out to the WalMart on Kirkwood and Westheimer, there's a patrol golf cart that cruises through there. plus, even though they only keep them for a few days at best, each WalMart has a closed circuit surveillance of the parking lots. I also seem to remember that there is a security guard at the WalMart on 45 near Almeda. heh, that's called "Sam's Club" from that site, I saw this and lol'd.. I've driven down those streets in close proximity to the location, I imagine the store will be simulating a pile of concrete rubble possibly with the look of a warehouse that has been abandoned for 20 years

very often in this thread I read someone saying crime will be increased with walmart, and that the strain on the existing police force will be increased. this seems to only revolve around walmart, not target, not bed bath and beyond, not home depot, not any other big box stores, or even other commercial retail options that could go in that exact place other than a walmart. based on that, I make the inevitable conclusion that this means that people believe the walmart shoppers will attract crime, or even are responsible for the increased crime themselves. Anyway, that was my reasoning for making any statements about walmart shoppers. my earlier statements about spandex were more tongue in cheek (even though I didn't make that very clear) and based primarily on that website I linked in the same post which seems to single out spandex.

Problem though. WalMart is not in a position where they need these people to agree with them. If they even see the opposition, they likely see demands (ie don't build, or go somewhere else) as unreasonable, and as such, they think to themselves (or have a meeting in some board room): these people are being unreasonable, and we don't need them on our side to complete this structure, lets not even talk to them. Whereas, if they were making reasonable 'demands': beautify your structure, or talk about how property value has affected other walmart areas, or what steps you are taking here to ensure that property value will be more positively affected than other locations; work with the city to more efficiently move traffic in a way that won't affect certain habitats; talk about how you will employ security measures and work closely with the city PD to help reduce the potential for crime. I mean, if the main concerns really are crime, traffic, and property value, then the approach shouldn't be taken that you don't want them to build because of that, the approach should be taken, we want to work with you so that our concerns are addressed. that doesn't mean you're starting in the middle, it just means you are more open for discussion. although, anyone who is saying anything about the looks, or how walmart will affect their property value are not making any kind of argument that I can understand on any level at all. There is no way they can look anyone in the eye and tell them that the corrugated warehouse wasteland that is Yale south of i-10 is better for their property values than a walmart will be.

Sorry, I had thought that this was the confrontational walmart thread. :-p Anyway, regardless the attire the people choose to wear, it still seems as though firebird is right.

I actually had to drive through Heights not too long ago (went to Buchanan's, since Teas closed, it's the closest approximation of a neat little nursery that has more than just the standard fare and is inside the loop). I saw the yard signs in front of a few houses. Every house I saw that had anti walmart signs had all of the appearances of being well kept. Roofs in good condition, highly cultivated and sculpted yards, nicely kept paint on the exterior. things that I would associate with someone who takes pride in the house they occupy. I doubt any of those people wear spandex when shopping. I didn't see any anti walmart signs in front of the worn down houses, the garage apartments, or the trailer park. I must say that I agree 100% with Firebird's assessment of the situation. You've got people who have a polarized view of walmart, thanks to websites like http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/ and from their own experiences, they don't particularly want people who wear spandex gathering in large groups around their neighborhood, and I am sure if they had the option to close down the trailer park, and knock down the low income housing so that only affluent people of their tastes could live there, they would do it in a heartbeat. If the people that lived there weren't bothered by diversity, they wouldn't be spending two or three times as much as it costs to live in other parts of the city that are even more diverse, and in some cases closer to downtown. No, I'd venture to guess that most of the people who are against this walmart are against it because they don't like people who wear spandex when shopping. As an aside, does anyone know if the site plans on being a 24 hour walmart? what's most sad is that the signs littering the yards are more of an eyesore than the walmart will ever be, and if one of my neighbors had them, I'd probably go pull them out in the middle of the night and throw them away.

just because they will be coming from all over will likely not have any affect on the demographics. the people that will be coming from 'all over' will likely fit the same demographic as the demographic of the neighborhood it is closest to. I have never shopped at walmart all the time, but there are rare occasions when I want to get something from walmart, and as I live about the same distance from the walmart on 45/almeda and this location, I'll likely choose this location (eventhough the one on 45 is on my daily commute), simply because of its location.