citykid09

In all honesty, I don't think this will ever get built. They just tore down a building for nothing like a lot of other developers in Houston have done.

With everything built, or not built, don't you guys consider the enviable position Houston is in right now? Most of the recent proposals have gone up, or are in the process. I don't get it. Is the orientation of the building not right? Does it not have retail, or maybe Is it the height of the structure? Is it not East coast enough? While I understand wanting more of an urban environment, we should count our blessings for the position this city is in right now.

I like it, and you are right. Its Houston and in Houston you just have to get what you can get. It could have been up to Kirby Drive and had retail on the first floor but at least its in the loop and everything in that area is getting dense.

This project is almost definitely happening. All of the stores on the property have big red and yellow signs that say "CLOSING" or "GOING OUT OF BUSINESS" an d there's a fence around the back side of the property.

How many times in Houston have we seen apartments, houses, buildings and retail centers torn down in anticipation of a nice new highrise or mixed use development only to see nothing happen? I can think of pently off the top of my head.

With that being said, I hope that is not the case with this one and the Kirby Collection.

I like this indoor ski resort idea. Can you imagine the amount of tourist this would bring to the city! How can we get word to the city that this is a much better idea then an indoor park. Like tigereye said you could also have a Hotel their as well. Also could have an animal exibit like polar bears, penguins, ice fishing etc.

Here is what I hope hapens, the W and Ritz keep ignoring Houston, Houston brings in its own highend brands (already happening) and other highend brands, W and Ritz start to notice and want in so they build something here to top them all.

How does Atlanta make 3 Ritz Hotels and 3 W Hotels work? If they can have 6 total, Houston can surely make the numbers work for 1 or 2.

See thats what I dont get.

All you hear about Houston is "boom boom boom!" "The city is on fire!" "Fastest growing city in America" "hottest city in the country" in countless publicationd, new york times, wall street journal, etc etc...

And yet...these fancy Hotels "cant make the numbers work"

Or "Houston was passed on by a hot new business concept in favor of Milwaukee"

Or how much smaller cities like Denver or Atlanta or St louis have lots of things that Houston does not.

So is it all bull***t?

Is Houston not really as "Hot" as we are always made out to be??

Thats cause we got lame developers and too many backwards people in this city plus so many people in this city has had a anti urban and anti 24hr street life attitude for such a long time....finally we're actually starting to see houston actually be somewhat vibrant and forward thinking...its depressing to go to cities like chicago which is not that much bigger than us population wise and there is so much life in the heart of the city streets at all times...I mean look at the stupid tunnels downtown they've literally ruined streetlife downtown......vibrancy at the streetlevel is so important having a vibrant downtown is so important any city you go to most people want to go downtown because downtown is the center of the city...but Houston....oooooh noooo....no real landmarks...no real tourist attractions...and if you want anything like that in houston people flip out and think you're trying to be like "noooooo yoooork" really at the end of the day its the people...its there mentality...alot of people even though they're generations removed from the country they still want a simple country life in a city with 6 million people in the metro area...personally I feel every great city should have something for everyone...good country area, good suburban area, and a good urban area....but then again its houston...no planning..no vision...he who has the most money can create the city that he/she wants.....also no rail? Hov lanes are worthless...sometimes I feel like this city just recently came out of the stone-age 

I have been saying what you all have been saying for years on here. I think one of the main problems with attracting these types of hotels in Houston is that they don't know where to go. Every decade or year it seems there is a new city center popping up (Westchase, Greenway Plaza, Energy Coridor, Uptown Galleria etc). Then on top of that NONE of these areas are walkable and touristy.

In todays world, these types of hotels want to be in hip cool areas with a vibrant street life. Also in Houston you never know when you are going to get a gas station or a Zone D Erotica moving in next to your high end hotel.

These types of hotels want to be in areas where niceness is all around, where the guest at the hotel can look out of the window and see and feel the vibrance of the city and not a sea of parking lots, a freeway,  diesel locomotives coming threw every 20 minutes and drive thru fast food restaurants.

Take a look at the W & Ritz Hotels you see in other cities and tell me what area or areas does Houston have to compare where they could locate.

I beleive downtown is the best option for these types of hotels because it has much of the structure in place. What downtown is missing though is the residence, the attractions and the subway to bring people into the city without the need for a vehicle.

Uptown has potential. I always see people say that you can not be urban without a street grid. Well I have seen many old cities with winding streets that have managed to be very walkable.

I think this demolition that you see is Randall Davis' new 100-unit Westcreek condo tower.  As much I would have LOVED to see the office tower get up and running, I believe that Peloton had an option on the land, announced the Westcreek Centre office tower, was unable to get financing in order, the option ran out, and the land owner did not extend it.  So I think this is a dead project.

I hope that you are wrong about this.

I think downtown or uptown wuld be better for these hotels. We know that they will be tall and what says W or Ritz more than views of major powerlines and diesel locomotives as views? ROD and of the development around it is just in a bad loaction. Wish the trains and powerlines cound be moved.

Maybe Astoria is the new Sky House and we will see them all over Houston and in other cities as well. Just a thought.

So there will be a strip of parking in front of this?

According to this plan. Yes http://swamplot.com/the-river-oaks-districts-new-box-of-dior/2013-11-12/

They are going to announce the cancelation of this project.

Ric Campo recently said he fails to see the viability of this project in this economy and feels the lot would be better suited (read more profitable) as the largest paid parking lot in midtown, because of its central location.

Demo permitting is currently under way to tear down the old Escobar/thien an strip center, then they will begin paving the entire super block.

You have to be joking right? LOL

Buckhead Atlanta and River Oaks District look remarkably similar (well, not that remarkable, I guess, since they are the same company).   Citykid, don't you ever tire of embarrassing yourself?

 

Buckhead Atlanta:  300,000 square feet of upscale retail, restaurants and cafes

                               100,000 square feet of offices

                                370 apartments

 

River Oaks District:  252,000 square feet of luxury retail, fine-dining restaurants, street-side cafes and entertainment

                                99,000 square feet of office space

                                279 residential units.

How have I "embarrassed" myself? Buckhead Atlanta was built up to the street so that as you drive by you can look into the stores. River Oaks District for the most part ignores Westheimer. The developer or the backwards rules of the City of Houston somehow allowed or required parking to be in the front of the building. The only thing that I was trying to state was that a  development with high end retail like this one had the opportunity to turn this into  Houston's version of the Magnificent Mile, Rodeo Drive, 5th Avenue, Newbury Street, etc. but they missed out because the vehicle has to be the #1 priority in Houston.

On the bright side, I like what cloud713 and others mentioned about the additional land that the developer purchased for future development. Also maybe in the future the parking in the front could be eliminated with really wide sidewalks. Maybe even buy the High Street development next door and redevelop it.

Please heed your own advice. ROD will certainly be different from what existed there previously. To a surplus of people, it will likely be considered an improvement - but only to a dearth of people will it be considered some magnificent spectacle, worth of comparison to the Astrodome. By general consensus, ROD is considered a general improvement. Either reveal your true intentions, or cease heaping unsubstantiated praise upon a project of which the typical praise might, on a good day, conjure a lukewarm compliment at best.

I will say that the River Oaks District is nice, but doesn't hold a candle to Buckhead Atanta (a development in the Buckhead district of Atlanta by the same company). The company built their version of ROD on the actual streets so that its really an extension of the neighborhood and not a shopping center like ROD. Their's was cut back like ROD but the still got quite a few highrises out of it.

Buckhead Atlanta Development by Oliver McMillan

I never really liked the design of that bridge either, because I said that it looks too much like the St. Louis Arch. But in the end its an improvement for Dallas. I like that Dallas isn't all about the cheapest most efficient use of funds when it comes to aesthetics in its city. Sometimes its about the look and you have to spend money if you want a look of class and sophistication.

Builders do not build what people want. They build whatever will earn them the most money. That's not always the same thing.

Exactly, and with Houston's anything goes no zoning or restrictions attitude it will continue. 

More pictures and an article: http://keranews.org/post/its-fabulous-dallas-continental-bridge-reopens-park-no-cars-allowed

That's bc Houston's idea of pedestrian oriented development usually means building self-contained islands that do a poor job of interacting with the surrounding neighborhood.

What I have been saying all along. Houston's pedestrian friendly areas are just shopping centers made to look urban. They are surrounded by parking lots with no interaction with the surrounding neighborhoods. BLVD Place, River Oaks District are two examples that come to mind. This is a serious problem but is it the fault of the developers or the backwards city of Houston requirements? The ONLY true urban development in Houston that has been announced (don't know if it will ever happen) is Regent Square. This is the only development that is built up to the sidewalk on existing streets (not fake streets that the developer adds in).

New Park/Pedestrian Bridge in Dallas. I don't know the name of the development, but it use to be a vehicle bridge in Dallas. Very nice! Stay progressive Dallas! Don't let the haters stop your progress!

so Midway beat the developers of Memorial City out at getting the first(?) residential high-rise out west? if i were the Memorial City developers i would be clamoring at Novare to come build a SkyHouse Buckhead replica in MC, pronto.

I thought Memorial City was getting a Hotel ZaZa with residential and a Whole Foods all in the same building? What ever happened to that?

Okay, suburban shopping centers WITHOUT a sea of parking. All I know is the developments around the DART stations all seem to be apartments on retail with a parking structure nearby, and they seem to be doing well.

Sorry.

When I said parking, I meant to say parking lots. Parking structures are fine.

mediocre rendering from what I can analysis, but the core concept of pedestrian dominated plazas and buildings which enclose and help define that wide pedestrian space is the right direction as well as a main promenade from said plaza to the station with no car traffic interruptions is also a great direction. Due to the lack of a secure foothold of any defining architectural characteristics I would hope that whatever goes in this area is bold and isn't as conservative as this. Take that fake stucco and brick mortar and put it somewhere else. This could become a very interesting urban core is planned and developed right. With all those factors though I don't see any development happening here for quite some time. The land is just too big and I don't think people are in the right mindset yet to really take full advantage of the land that they got there.

Exactly what I was thinking, dated design, good concept. If Houston wants light rail to be worth it, the stations should be surrounded by development that people want to explore and not suburban shopping centers with a sea of parking.

I agree, if richmond and uptown never get built then go full bore a subway from like Voss & Westheimer to DT with stops at chimneyrock, galleria, weslayan. Then curves NE with a stop at Shepard and Grey, then w dallas & waugh and then allen pkwy and montrose then memorial and houston finally in DT at Capital & Main. 9 miles about

 

 http://lightrailnow.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/new-subway-metro-systems-cost-nearly-9-times-as-much-as-light-rail/

I would guess 450mil/mile so 4.05 billion. Slightly lower construction cost in Hou.

 

Tell me why Houston's light rail cost more per mile than any other cities?

And tell me how Helsinki Metro was able to build this rail line below for less than Houston was able to build a cheap a** (actually expensive) street car/light rail? Looking at the cart above Houston got robbed. Those cities have much nicer light rail lines for much cheaper.

Have seen a FedEx commercial recently with a guy pretending to have an office in his garage; the view in the background appears to be an aerial view of the southeast side of the downtown skyline.

Don't think this is Houston:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UsUWGublnk

I am all for rail. Against BRT in the Uptown area and I would NOT like to see rail along Post Oak either unless it was more like a street car. What I would like to see is a Subway line from Uptown to Downtown that way no one can say anything about how they don't want it going down a certain street or in their neighborhood. It may cost more but look at all of the benefits a subway would bring over a light rial line.

No interaction between rail with cars or pedestrians which means no car/train wrecks no stopping of traffic and no humans getting hit by trains.

Everyone will have to pay and there will be no confusion on if your pass is still good or not.

People will be protected from the heat, rain, etc within the subway stations.

Will the power lines stay or come down?