Gary

That explains it. Damn I wish I had known that, I'm sure it was a great show. This is off subject but have you seen "Beetle"? There supposed to be the Thursday night house band (Continental) and I've heard some pretty good things about em..

I agree these buildings are very cool. I to think the second one is the better of the two.

My apologies Deb.

Good one!

Even though I was very impressed with the party atmosphere Saturday night one thing I don't like is the lack of live music DT.

Is it a dance club?

"I lived in Houston during the 70's & 80's". Wow that's great but a lot has changed since then. "Houston needs to centralize more of it's development inside the inner loop 610" Are you kidding? Obviously you haven't a clue as to the current development of the inside loop. Need I remind you that inside the loop at leat 50 low rise & midrises have gone up in the last couple of years (not sure of the number). We also blow doors on high rise residential living inside the loop and if you include Uptown, well enough said there. "Houston will never have that urban feel because it's just to damn spread out" This statement is silly and proves ignorance. Pay attention to the area in question. Can I finish in saying that I am not anti Dallas, I'm just defending Houston from the ignorance I hear. That's not meant to be mean spirited but it's painfully obvious that some including you don't know about the city.

Sorry for my ignorance, what is Red Star? Theres so many places I'm not sure what's what.

Last night (Saturday) me and a couple of buddies took off to Ginger Man pub in Rice Village. When we pulled into the arcade area the streets were packed everywhere, there was litteraly no where to park for blocks. we eventually got lucky and found a place. When we finally made it to the bar it was like sardines in a can, and it wasn't the only place like that. Every single bar (and grill) were packed to the hilt and we found it impossible to get in anywhere, so we left. We then headed to Rudyards on Waugh and encountered the same thing so we left. We then went to the Continental Club on Main to find it worse than all of them and that was with a $15.00 cover. Since we were already on Main we decided to head Downtown and hit a beer pub (Mcelroys) which is also on Main. When we got close to the area I was blown away by the thousands of people (and cars) swamping Main and Prarie. It was so packed that we had to park 9 blocks from where we were going. When we eventually made it on foot to Main it looked almost like Mardi Gras. The streets were packed to the gills with people. Every bar had lines going into them and in fact some bars had lines with over 100 people well past 1:00am. When we got to Mcelroys we got very lucky to find a table outside being cleared so we grabbed it. As we sat back drinking Black & Tans we people watched for two hours as hundreds passed by our table on the street. I know the ladies may not appreciate this but the girls outnumbered the boys about 4 to 1, it was great. We also observed how young the crowd was, probably an average of between 22 to 26. When we finally decided to head home around 1:30am the bars were still full and the people were still there. I jus thought it was a great night to experience the Houston night life, this city is really up and coming and I'm proud to live here.

I didn't take the post personally I was simply asking why she lumped every poster on this thread into one statement. I probably should have made my comment more clear.

I didin't take the post from Deb Martin personally I was trying to figure out why she seemed to accuse everyone on the thread of not understanding the stated deffinition of "cosmopolitan". Maybe I should have explained myself better.

I meant it. I think it makes for more civic pride, maybe I'm wrong. Every person I've talked to here that's a native all get angry about this subject. I didn't understand it at first but after a while I finally understood why Houstonians are so defensive about this city. Man this is a great town and people need to know about it. I've actually got a friend who is in the beginning stages of writing a book entitled "Houston's firsts". It identifies everything Houston did first in the country like the Astrodome, first man on the moon etc. When I read some of the beginning transcript I was very impressed by all the things this city did before anybody. It's pretty cool.

Man that was a great post and so true!! I'm not hoping the rail but I'll be at my favorite little hang out in the Village tonight to. 2112 I hear exactly what your saying to. I always heard terrible things about Houston then when I got here (late 90's) I was floored by how cool this town really is. I have found myself becoming defensive and I'm not even a native. Fortunately I can tell you that at least among the musicians world that old view point is changing.

I know Dallas very well, I've been Playing there for 10 years and I do know the city. I've probably been there at least 75 times and most of those times have been in the last 5 to 6 years. And many of those times I stayed with friends and partied all over the city. All you mentioned was Rice Village in your Houston comments and as you know that is also but a small part of the areas in question. As far as the foreigners comment I was not addressing illegals, I was addressing the legal immigrants. Again there are at least 82 foreign consulates in Houston, that says cosmopolitan all over it. By the way Dallas has 32 foreign consulates. There are other things to consider when using the definition of cosmopolitan like being the energy capital of the world which brings us into play with almost every industrialized nation on the planet. I will also say that Dallas is not immune to illegals and although they don't have the numbers Houston does they are growing in number there. In finishing let me reitterate that I don't dislike Dallas at all, in fact I'm planning on hanging out for the week at the end of march. Also as I said there are things in Dallas that I deffinately like more than I do Houston. In fact I don't care to much for Houston outside of the loop except for the bay area which is really cool (except the water).That being said I find Houston to have a much bigger city atmosphere and coming from LA that suits me better. By the way although the feeder roads in Houston are ugly as sin they are a great invention. In LA there are absolutely no feeder roads which can make back tracking a real pain in the bleep. However as I said they are ugly.

First of all I'm not a native Houstonian and I am NOT obsessed with Houston one uping Dallas. I was merely stating my observations. I have become well aware since coming here that Houstonians are defensive about there city. I could be wrong but I think it's because it's such a huge cool city that never really got on the map until recently. I personally was blown away by Houston in 98 as I had no clue it was such a big cosmopolitan city. In other words I can understand there frustration and find myself feeling the same way. Houston is now my home and I love it here and tell all of my out of town friends how cool it is. I applaud the anger Houstonians have in there defense of this city, it will only continue to help us.

First of all the "underated" issue is quickly becoming passe. I also think that a lot of native Houstonians have that continued mindset which is not nearly as true as it used to be. As a musician I travel a lot and I can tell you that the "higher regard" that Dallas used to enjoy over Houston is passing quickly. I am not arguing that Dallas doesn't have some well planned areas in fact there are certain things Dallas has (like water) that I wish Houston had. However in regard to this issue (cosmopolitan) Dallas loses, period. And I have been there recently (last month) and will be there again at the end of March. I'm not going to argue the facilities of the arts, symphony or the like as far as your perception of planning or architecture, the facts of the sheer size and number of these venues in Houston is point enough. I could use my own perception and proffesional reviews in regards to one of my favorite places in Houston which is the "Ginger Man Pub" in Rice Village. Not only do I find it far more charming than the one in Dallas but Michael Jackson (no not the freak) a world renowned pub & beer critic picked the Ginger Man in Houston as one of the top 5 pub atmospheres in the world. Yes the world. So much of this argument (not the cosmopolitan one) is merely perspective. Have you been around the east end of DT Houston, have you noticed the midrises going up everywhere? Have you been to Uptown and seen the residential high rise towers going up? Oh and the ones that will be going up? Have you been around the Medical Center to see all of the midrises going up ? Have you been to Main Street and seen what is proposed for it? I could go on and on. Houston is working on having a densly populated inner loop which of course Dallas cannot compete with. I play in Dallas and I know Dallas and I like Dallas but where the cosmopolitan debate is concerned Dallas loses. Again I never said Dallas didn't have some things over Houston, any big city has something over another. However Houston is a more diverse cosmopolitan culture than Dallas.

As someone who lived in LA I can say you are absolutely correct. LA is beyond massive which actually makes it very unattractive to me. Personally I would prefer Houston to stop growing in area so we might preserve the country around us. In LA it's almost impossible to get to a truly rural place.

\ I don't understand what's sad. Would you elaborate please?

Well stated, thank you.

I'm very confused, we must be talking about another Dallas because the one I go to every couple of months is nothing in urban area to Houston. Certainly there are cool parts to Dallas as with any big city but to compare it's urbaness to Houston is crazy. Secondly Dallas does have a superior rail system obviously but a rail system doesn't neccesarily make a part of a city urban, and it certainly doesn't make it cosmopolitan. I know alot of the rail system in Dallas and the majority of it is not as urban as portrayed here. Dallas has some great things about it (except the dry counties) but it is not comparable to Houston as an urban area. Dallas is a bunch of large towns (except DT and UT. Houston is one big city. I really don't mean to sound like a jerk but I know both cities and this is a silly debate.

Using the above definition of cosmopolitan would make Dallas the weeker of the two cities period. As far as the Rice Village comment is concerned I don't get it. And where are all of these areas your describing as better. Rice village is but a small part of the "Inner Loop" of the city. Dallas does not have the cultural solid city that Houstons inner loop does, not to say theres no art as I know some fine musicians and clubs in Dallas. True that in the past Dallas got more recognition than Houston but that has been changing alot over the last ten years. I also don't get the idea's of Neimans, the Ritz Carlton, the NHL or the arts district comments. If we use that logic we could point out the things Houston has over Dallas as far as being progresssive. Heres just a few, I'm sure others could do a better job . 1.) Minute Maid Park (in downtown) 2.) Toyota Center (in downtown) & in a lot prettier environment than American. 3.) Convention center hotel (next to Toyota center) 4.) 82 foriegn consulates 5.) higher populations of diverse cultures 6.) Main street and it's plans 7.) 2nd largest theater market in the country 8.) Williams Tower (tallest building in the world outside a central business district) 9.) Uptown Houston which is about the size of Downtown Dallas 10.) Medical Center (can't leave this off as it is the most progressive in the world) 11.) Way more high rise condo developments than Dallas 12.) Thriving arts district 13.) a downtown that is moving in a very progressive direction 14.) Reliant Center (Reliant convention center, Astrodome, Reliant stadium, reliant astrohall) and this is all in one parking lot. 15.) Super bowl I know I'm forgetting many others. I will say that as a musician I prefer Houstons brashness as you say to Dallas's refinement. It makes a better place to play as the noise of the crowds are much better in Houston. That also goes for football, baseball or basketball. Oh and who cares about Hockey? There are a few things Dallas has over Houston but not much.

Using the above definition of cosmopolitan would make Dallas the weeker of the two cities period. As far as the Rice Village comment is concerned I don't get it. And where are all of these areas your describing as better. Rice village is but a small part of the "Inner Loop" of the city. Dallas does not have the cultural solid city that Houstons inner loop does, not to say theres no art as I know some fine musicians and clubs in Dallas. True that in the past Dallas got more recognition than Houston but that has been changing alot over the last ten years. I also don't get the idea's of Neimans, the Ritz Carlton, the NHL or the arts district comments. If we use that logic we could point out the things Houston has over Dallas as far as being progresssive. Heres just a few, I'm sure others could do a better job . 1.) Minute Maid Park (in downtown) 2.) Toyota Center (in downtown) & in a lot prettier environment than American. 3.) Convention center hotel (next to Toyota center) 4.) 82 foriegn consulates 5.) higher populations of diverse cultures 6.) Main street and it's plans 7.) 2nd largest theater market in the country 8.) Williams Tower (tallest building in the world outside a central business district) 9.) Uptown Houston which is about the size of Downtown Dallas 10.) Medical Center (can't leave this off as it is the most progressive in the world) 11.) Way more high rise condo developments than Dallas 12.) Thriving arts district 13.) a downtown that is moving in a very progressive direction 14.) Reliant Center (Reliant convention center, Astrodome, Reliant stadium, reliant astrohall) and this is all in one parking lot. 15.) Super bowl I know I'm forgetting many others. I will say that as a musician I prefer Houstons brashness as you say to Dallas's refinement. It makes a better place to play as the noise of the crowds are much better in Houston. That also goes for football, baseball or basketball. Oh and the rea

The only time I've been hastled was in Greenway Plaza other than that I never have a problem. Maybe it's because I have long hair and there afraid, ha ha. By the way do you mind telling me what you pay for Photobucket?