Visitor

Was at CVS across the street and snappwd a couple photos. Looks like they are getting close.

Happy to see this on the dockett for redevelopment. Would love to see that vacant lot/building across Nett done away with as well.

Sounds like residential, would have preferred to see something commercial here.

Seems like a good concept for a place like Houston where ROW's are difficult to come by outside of existing streets. It would seem that you could create stations on the side of the streets as opposed to over intersections. Would depend on the required distance bewteen posts. Can't see Houston being the guinea pig.

Walked by here a couple days ago and there is work being done on the yellow house. Could be renovation or salvage. Obviously salvage would indicate impending demo. I'll walk by again after thr holiday and see if there is anything new.

Exactly, they are too proud of their buses...

From recent conversations i was privy to with metro and gulf coast rail district, there are no near term plans to build the inner katy line. This doesn't preclude it from happening, just isn't a priority at the moment.

There are a couple of groups pushing this though, and some new groups being formed to move rail development in Houston along.

Miyako moved to washington ave

See, this is the sort of circular reasoning that NIMBYs use to justify what is primarily an irrational emotional response. Yes, it's agreed that the project is needed, but not anywhere near me - that's not a logical argument, that's emotional territoriality. It's based on an unjustified belief in the ownership of one's proximity, as opposed to the plat of land that one has title to.

 

You see this all the time in infrastructure projects - usually landowners do not mind giving up rights of way or easements - that's either a lucrative one-time transaction, or a steady source of income over the years. Their neighbors, on the other hand, are usually the biggest opponents, and the opposition is couched in terms of territoriality.

 

If there's a perception that the NIMBY mentality is directed at all things rail, that's probably because they're usually more successful there. There are too many strong countervailing interests in Houston to block a major road project (for example, the Grand Parkway F-2).

I personally have always presented myself as a NIMBY.  To that end I would dispute your reference to territorialism; generally when people make a purchase of a home, it is not unilateraly for the x,000SF parcel but for the community and the immediate surrounding area.  So it would stand to reason that projects, regardless of what they are, that impact the community would have relevance to a resident.

I get that NIMBY'ism has probably prevented good projects from ever happening, and this might be one of them.  But to discount what a person should and shouldn't care about, b/c they do not "own" the land in question, is an overreaction IMO.

We can agree to disagree, in the long run neither of us really have impact on the decisions made.

That's the very definition of "not in my backyard".

I wish NIMBYs were more self-aware.

Relative to the HSR? Absolutely.

But there is a general perception that the NIMBY mentality is directed at all things related to rail when its not the case.

I dont oppose HSR overall, though I don't believe it will successful as an alternative travel mode.

Yeah the NW mall is just the piece of land.  Once they buy it, they'll demolish it, and build their terminal and depot.  Parking garages, rental car lots, and most likely a new bus transit center (if Metro helps out) will be built, and it will completely change the fabric of that area.  

 

What we really need though is to ensure that a light rail & BRT station is also a part of this development, and I think we need to figure out a way to push Metro hard to get this done.  With out pressure, I could see them just building a bus shelter and sending a couple of local metro buses there like they do with Hobby

Based on a meeting i was privy to where Christof Spieler presented and took questions, Metro does not have any real intentions of expanding Light Rail or rail of any sort.  They are (imo overly) proud of their bus system and any discussions related to future rail were essentially shot down with both cost and the "effectiveness" of the bus system being the main reasons. 

With that said, it's important if you want more rail in Houston, that you vote December 12th in the Mayoral run-off. As you know the Mayor is in charge of appointing members on the DOT Board and their vision of the city's transportation future plays a large role in what we eventually see come to fruition.

The Houston HSR Watch did a questionnaire to all candidates and those responses can be found here:

http://houstonhsrwatch.org/latest_information.html

It is important to note that the run off is between Turner and King. Turner also penned a letter to the Houston HSR Watch which can be found on the same page under "Early 2015"

Before all of the NIMBY comments come rolling in, the Houston HSR Watch is supportive of improved connectivity for Houston which includes light and commuter rail.  They are not against HSR, save for the infrastructure and disruption that would have been necessary to bring it downtown.  

Apparently TCR thought, and the Feds agreed, that the benefits of going downtown outweigh the environmental impacts to the neighborhoods and the cost of building it out.

I was thinking about how you could tie in this station into the light rail network, mainly to get people downtown, and I came up with 3 routes

West Segment by Christopher Hisle, on Flickr

East Segment by Christopher Hisle, on Flickr

Here is the three lines in an interactive map:

https://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=RrCrffSkaG&lat=29.777217766091777&lng=-95.39527148008347&z=14&t=hybrid

(I couldn't figure out how to embded it)

Purple is an extension of the purple line going west from downtown, following Houston Avenue to Washington Avenue, and then following Washington Avenue all the way to Hempsted Road, where it goes to NW Mall.

This line I think would be both the most useful and would face the most intense opposition as well as the hardest to construct. It only requires one new overpass (right where Hempsted and Washington Ave intersect) and would connect to existing businesses and dense residential along it's entire corridor. Downsides are of course that Washington Ave currently doesn't have a median, so this would hamper left turns into businesses, as well as require some ROW to maintain 4 lanes of traffic plus left turning pockets.

Washington Corridor Stats:

6.31 Miles long, most at grade

1 new overpass required

8 intermediary stations

28 minute estimated trip time

The next is pink. This terminates at Burnett transit center and mainly follows the Heights Hike and Bike Trail. It would be easier to build without disrupting traffic, but it would ruin the natural feeling of most of the trail. After the trail terminates, it follows Shepherd north to 11th street, which it follows to Hempsted Road.

There is one spot where a new overpass might be needed to be built, a old train track crossing 11th street just east of Hempsted Road. It might be better to just leave it as a level crossing depending on the train traffic through it.

Except for Shepherd and Sawyer Heights, this line would mainly run through residential areas.

Heights Corridor Stats:

6.77 miles long, most at grade

1 possible overpass required

6 intermediary stops

25 minute estimated trip time

The final idea is in light blue, following I-10. I imagined an extended HOV lane (possibly this would also be BRT) that entered at its current location and went to NW mall, though exiting at Washington and following Hempstead road to get there more directly. This route would have the least impact on businesses during construction, but I wasn't sure how to tie it in to the Red line, and it would have to be a 7 mile long completely elevated structure. Also, this would only be an express line to TCR and nothing else.

I-10 Corridor Stats:

7.2 miles long, almost entirely elevated

2 intermediary stops

10 minute estimated trip time

This NIMBY likes these ideas...

Far more value to the community than HSR running through.

Some renderings. Fairly basic but should improve the walkability near sprouts as well as the aesthetic. Next up, the ironworks (which is for sale)

I hate that this has turned into the Purple/Green line thread but since there's been no info as of late I understand.

Some new info on the HSR would be great.  

And yes, i will admit that I have a strong dislike for buses.  Not that i don't see the utility of them, I just didn't get super excited about the "reimagined" routes because to me, and probably me only, it seems like Metro is patting themselves on the back and the satisfaction with their new plan will inhibit planning future rail projects. 

Just my two cents, not trying to spur an argument over buses, haha. 

On the bus v train debate, my experience is that buses cater to those that do not have a car and need them for mobility. Trains cater to those who prefer the consistency and ease of use. Yes I'm generalizing and yes there are exceptions.

As a business traveler, colleagues and I take rail when it's available, but not buses. Even in a city like Chicago, it's train and walk or if the walk is too far/too cold we hail a cab.

I'd be quite happy to see light rail down the washington corridor. And I'm the same person who has no desire to see the HSR go down that same corridor.

I'd argue that downtown is not the center of the Houston area. This is based on my perspective of the majority of the population living west, south and north of the city. Sure there are loops that DT is the center of, but there is far less east of Houston.

Also, HSR in other countries does not typically enter metro centers but terminates outside city centers and uses local rail to connect. For example the Tokyo station is roughly 7 miles from downtown.

I do think the HSR should connect to mass transit. However in my opinion, a bus system does not really qualify. Here's how I see it from my perspective as a business traveler. Trains are more reliable and generally require far less effort to navigate than a bus system. I may be in the minority, but as a traveler I never take buses but will take advantage of train systems almost every time.

I just can't picture someone coming to Houston and me telling them, "oh yeah, just take the bus around"

Just my two cents.

I agree on your assessments and have heard TRC's preference is to not go downtown due to cost. There is a strong political push for a downtown terminus though.

Also, Houston still has it's back channel network of well connected individuals who can influence projects to suit their interests. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the true determining factor in all of this, and that will definitely be about money.

Certainly understand that line of thought. I guess the infrastructure is more of a concern than the actual rail is. If this we're a metro rail line coming through I'd probably be one of the happiest people, but having another train just cruise by on a huge concrete bridge really doesn't do much for the areas below.

I guess we will just keep waiting to see the final alignment.

Yeah my bad, didn't mean to sound accusatory, I dislike those tracks as much as anyone else who has to drive over them, I just don't see the property value issue as being something that can legitimately dissuade TCR or the established rail companies from removing them. Which is unfortunate because they suck and I hate them. 

All well and good.  I just find it hard to believe that  a structure the size of a freeway overpass would not have a negative impact on home value.  Most new homes are 3 stories tall and an elevated rail line would still tower over those to allow clearance for the underlying freight trains.  I also don't see any certain sign that it would induce further development along the corridor considering the HSR would not even stop along the way. 

I have a love/hate relationship with the UPRR right of way, on one hand i think it allows for easy expansion of a usable metrorail route or bike trail and lends something to the urban nature of the area.  On the other hand it creates a collecting place for trash, stops traffic far too often, and of course can be noisy. 

The bike path that they created through the heights on a old rail right of way would be pretty nice, but i still think a commuter line would net the best value add to the city and area. Perhaps below grade with street overpasses, pipe dreams....

That's what I'm saying, how are we supposed to know the changes it brings on property value? Unless we look at other HSR cases...and those are all international.

Fair enough, then it is my opinion that it would negatively impact the area.    

Relative to the potential I-10 alignment, i know they plan to replace the Yale bridge just south of I-10 in 2016, hopefully that work would take an HSR alignment into consideration if that does end up being a real possibility.

If you wanna go cheap, yeah.

If they have the money they will go downtown, might as well connect to another employment center.

I recall during a TRC meeting they expected a good bulk of their ridership to have destinations in the Galleria and Energy Corridor. A terminus at NW Mall would provide more flexibility to transfer riders to any of the 3 most likely destinations.

I mean, there's absolutely no way of knowing if it adds nothing just as there's no way of knowing that it takes it away. That's all purely your opinion at this point, with no information or research that says otherwise. I understand the frustration, but at some point, residents of this area along the Washington corridor cannot keep clamoring for a "quiet and peaceful" neighborhood that is so close to downtown, and is only continuing to become more developed and "urbanized" for a lack of a better term.

It's easy to say it won't add value and will negate it, but it's just as easy to say the opposite. How can you back up that claim though?

Under the assumption there is just an added HSR track it will only pass through the area, and not directly service the neighborhoods it will bisect. Now if it allows expansion of local commuter transit then I believe there would be added value.

Id be interested to hear the perspective on how it would be a positive impact on the Wash Ave corridor. Also under the assumption the freight rail stays and it's just an HSR track.

Agreed, but I think it still needs to connect to the metro system, and not the buses...

Unless there is an express bus to downtown or the energy corridor.

There is no chance the HSR would fit at grade level and include the freight line. The HSR needs at least 50' on each side (plus the clearance for the freight line). We spoke with the president of the TRC and he noted that they already realized an elevated rail would be required.

As a resident of the affected area there is zero value added with HSR coming through and it only negatively affects the area(Assuming an elevated solution and not in lieu of freight)

Going down the train parallel to Washington wouldn't work; too many NIMBY'S that would delicate flower and whine

I'd fall into those NIMBY's and would be all for it if it were in lieu of the freight line or if it were reasonable to put it below grade.  Since UPRR has no intention of giving up their ROW the HSR would need to go over the freight lines where trains are often stacked two cars high.  The structure would essentially look like putting the I-10 over passes through the middle of the Washington ave neighborhood.  

FWIW I am all for more rail transit in Houston. In a perfect world the freight line would relocate outside the city and then the HSR and commuter trains would share that right of way.