TJones

Let's be clear here...we're not talking about just the ability to turn VDC off. Launch control goes much further than that. It allows you to dump the clutches with the engine rev'd up sky high then have the engine management and traction control systems work in concert to deliver the most possible torque to the wheels without causing wheelspin. TOTALLY unnecessary for getting un-stuck.

Agreed, but in order for you to get MORE torque to the wheels and rev sky high you have to turn off the VDC while it is in R-mode, this is how their "Launch Control" works according to Edmunds. That is how they achieved those numbers. You see, with the VDC ON, you cannot get the power braking needed for launch, because the engine will power down. And before any of you can say, "Well Nissan should tell us that is how the numbers were achieved." Porsche didn't tell you, Ferrari didn't tell you, Chevy didn't tell you. However, Nissan cannot make it anymore clear that you are NOT to turn the VDC off for any other reason than that I have mentioned earlier, and if you choose to do so, it is at your own detriment. I would expect users of this forum to have a little more common sense, after all, you had the ability to find HAIF, so we are definately an above average crowd. So do not expect your transmission to be covered under the warranty for doing foolish things with it. This is not in any fineprint either, this also is the way a Porsche warranty works, a Ferrari warranty works, a Corvette warranty works, this is how your Kia Rio's warranty works also.

Sorry for the late response. We just got back from Maui this weekend.

The Ceremony and Reception were at the Alden Hotel downtown.

Where'd you stay ? Lahaina, Ki'hea, Four Seasons ? I ask because Maui is where my wife and I got married and honeymooned as well. Did you take the Road from HELL, I mean to HANA ?<--- I am getting carsick just thinking about it.

I realize you sell cars so you will say anything

but you REALLY think that if that car was forced off or skidded off of the road and was stuck that any type of traction control being turned on or off would make a difference

I never said that, in my experience, Texas ditch mud is hard for even a Monster Truck to get out of. I said earlier, you at least have a fighting chance with the VDC and AWD engaged for a short period.

I find it strange that someone that makes a CAR like that has something in the control software to help you when you get "stuck"

what total dumbass is taking THAT car somewhere that it will get "stuck"

The same someone who would think it is ok to not read the owner's manual after he signed a form instructing him to and drive continuously with the VDC off anyway, so he can do 0-60 at warp speed.

But, Nissan made the system for those that may actually lose control of their car while driving normally or is forced off and skid off the road into some wet stuff.

I'm gonna do that, thanks sara.

I trust the news editor at Edmunds on this. Why would they lie about Nissan calling their launch control "launch control"?

I'll take that as a "No, I can't find anything by Nissan saying that." thanks meme.

Why would the other guys lie and say that nobody can confirm it's been done away with for 2010 ? Again, show me something from Nissan, jm1 was able to, albeit they were the numbers from England, but that isn't what I asked, so I will concede that Nissan published a number in England of 3.5 sec. and it seems to be the only place they have for some strange reason. jm1, can you find another Nissan publication on that number, I'd like to see it, you seem to be a better surfer than me.

jm1, the alternate would be that you are able to turn the VDC off in order to help get out of a place you are stuck (the only reason the switch is for, as told by Nissan) by applying more torque to the wheels for a short period of time and not for high RPM launches to impress your buddies. Simple as that.

BTW, did you happen to see, MOTOR TREND CAR OF THE YEAR 2009 !!! Yeah, that GT-R is a real piece of crap.

I need a cat sitter during the Holidays. Can anyone suggest a good one that I won't be afraid to give the keys to my house while I'm gone.

This is why they make kennels. Unless it is a trusted neighbor or friend, I think you would be nuts to give your keys to someone that advertises to come in your home. I suggest no on a sitter and yes to a kennel.

Wait a sec. How long are you gonna be gone ?

See http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2008...ch-control.html, where a "high-ranking" Nissan exec called it "launch control". Are you really pinning your argument on the idea that no one at Nissan calls their launch control "launch control"?

Are you gonna show us a published piece by Nissan calling it that, or are you pinning your argument on a third party blog.

Someone at Nissan said they are removing launch control, then someone at Nissan said they aren't. Either way, Nissan included launch control in the 2009 GT-R. And they call it "launch control".

If you show me ONE piece of published literature, I will even let you use the nissanusa.com website, from Nissan, calling it "launch control" I will concede the point.

It most certainly is being promoted by Nissan vis a vis their advertising performance numbers for the car that can only be achieved by using launch control.

You have Links of Nissan Published numbers ?

Here meme, I found this article where Edmunds was actually using "real world" driving techniques, and not turning the VDC off apparently.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/gtr/2009/testdrive.html

...and no meme, first, there is no confirmation that the VDC controls are being removed, and if there were a change, it would simply be a matter of taking away the ability of turning the VDC off.

That link crashes Firefox. Perhaps I clicked it too hard.

I never said launch control was "one button". It is a feature built into the 2009 GT-R, so my questions are still:

If you are only supposed to turn the VDC off when stuck in the mud, why do you have to turn it off to use the launch control?

And if you aren't supposed to use the launch control, why did they build it with launch control??

That is just it meme, Nissan doesn't call it launch control. It is something the Edmunds people figured out. Nissan doesn't recommend using the transmission that way unless you are stuck. It is not a "feature" promoted by Nissan. Go read the Edmunds story again. It says it right in here.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=124017

From Edmund's Inside Line Nov. 20, 2008

With the Internet bursting with ugly tales of GT-R launch control abuse, broken transaxles and void warranties, a nasty rumor began; that the 2010 Nissan GT-R won't have launch control.

Could it be? Really?

So we asked and asked and asked. We asked three Nissan employees: one from the public relations department, one from engineering and one high-ranking executive. The first two confirmed its removal was being considered seriously, but the decision had not yet been made. Then the high-ranking executive confirmed the bad news.

"It's gone," he said when asked if launch control would return in 2010. "We just don't want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore. It'll make the 2009 GT-R really special. It'll be the only R35 with launch control." -- Kelly Toepke, News Editor

Looks like they realized that they had a liabilty problem, now if TJ can accept reality......

I only found this link, which apparently Nissan called these guys back and said there has absolutlely been NO DECISION regarding the launch control. Weird.

UPDATE: Nissan just contacted us to say, "No final decision has been made about the inclusion of launch control on the MY2010 GT-R." So, for now at least, Inside Line's report is just speculation." Looks like Kelly has got some 'splaining to do. Wait! There is the link to her snippet in my link, good deal. It's all good, eye.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/20/nissan-...from-2010-gt-r/

"... an electronic setting on many modern sports sedans and coupes that let the driver take off from the line at a certain high speed without the wheels spinning much." (from Wikipedia)

Why do you ask?

There are 3 seperate controls, it isn't just one button on the GT-R. Go read the online manual link I provided for you, and you can read all about how it actually works.

Ha!

My concerns are validated. I win.

See, a couple of bad apples may have spoiled the whole bunch, such is life. The "reality"is some dumb schmuck admittedly abused his $80k sled and expected someone else to pay for his mess. Are you ready to admit that fact Skyeye ? If this is true, it looks like Nissan has to be babysitter for those of you that don't understand how to read your manuals or even have an idea that doing burnouts all day long in your car, regardless of make or price tag, MIGHT be bad for it. Which seems to be the problem here. So, those of you that actually know how to take proper care of a car are more than welcome to come purchase what will appear to be an even better deal, performance wise.

If you are only supposed to turn the VDC off when stuck in the mud, why do you have to turn it off to use the launch control? And if you aren't supposed to use the launch control, why did they build it with launch control??

Just for the record, what do you think "Launch Control" is, exactly ?

I know there are dual clutch transmissions and paddle shifted automatics. The GTR is a dual clutch. The car is still shifting for you in a dual clutch. You don't have a clutch pedal in a GTR. It's still a DSG no matter what mode you drive it in. In manual shift mode you are selecting geears and the car is shifting for you. I think the "it's not engineered to have the extra torque to the wheels" says it all. If the car can't handle the feature don't put it on the car.

How you gonna stand a chance to get out of the mud, when you are stranded in BFE without a cell signal ? Try not to misquote me though, would ya. If you would have read it correctly, you would be able to see it is NOT a feature of the car. Nowhere does it say you can drive the GT-R with the VDC off at all times. Typical hater.

This contreversy is not about doing clutch dumps a 8k rpm. This is about using launch control too many times. This car has a DSG transmission. It's not like a standard. If it's dumping the clutch at 8k rpm that's the car's fault. Launch control is supposed to shift the car correctly.

You are correct about abuse not being covered under the warranty though. I bought a 2006 Porsche 911 used and had to replace the clutch at 20k miles due to abuse by the previous owner. It cost $2k. You can destroy a brand new clutch in a standard transmission car in a few minutes if you don't drive it right. You should not be able to do that in a DSG car like the GT-R though.

Griff, there are Dual-clutches in the paddleshift automatic. If you turn the VDC off though, which is the case here, and drive it in manual shift mode like you are at Laguna Seca, well.... It is not a DSG, it is a 6-speed dual clutch transmission with 3 driver selectable modes. The VDC off switch is ONLY for getting the car out of mud or slushy snow when it is stuck. It is not engineered for using it to always have the extra torque to the wheels, and the Owner's manual explains it in about 4 different sections.

My work is done...

The problem is.....you never got started.

Niche, If you are so smart as to know how NOT to treat Greyhound respectively, then you should know how NOT to treat the transmission on your GT-R, given you had enough sense to read your owner's manual like you were instructed to. Considering your offer Niche, looks like you need to be looking at the Versa instead, I don't know that it is possible for you to blow up the tranny on that one, so you would have no concerns.

If you read the link I provided about the dumbass who claims to have the tranny problem, he ADMITS he knew he was driving it WRONG. Apparently he had the "clarity" to know that even before he decided to become John Force in his GT-R.

Meme, there is nothing poorly made with these cars, just poor drivers, and poor saps that believe rumors on the internet. So far, I have only seen proof of one, ONE guy who blew a transmission, and he admits to doing it, because of his poor driving habits. End of story.

So Jeebus, using your rationale, is the Corvette Z06 an overpirced Domestic, given all he youtube,Hot Rod, Motor Trend, forum hype over the years ?

Are you claiming that\'s the only way these transmissions broke? It seems that a lot of GT-R owners are saying otherwise.

I will bet dollars to doughnuts that they weren't driving to the local HEB or on the Loop takin' a Sunday drive to the coast doin\' 70mph in the middle lane, and the tranny blew up meme.

The black box tells all. Look, if you broke your mom's crystal vase and she didn't see you, and you and the cat were the only ones in the room, who you gonna blame ? You'll blame the cat, until your mom shows you the video she had hiding in the bookshelf. Same principal applies with the black box, it tells EXACTLY what was going on when the tranny blew, and if Nissan said, "We ain't fixin' that Mario ." It is because they pulled the Data recorder memory and saw the engine stats when he was racing the thug-punk in the '05 Impala seconds before shutdown. I'm saying it is HIGHLY unlikely anyone lost a tranny the way they claimed, before the dealership pulled the real story, and asked the owner if he wanted to change hishe's.

Meme, quit believing everything you read at the NAGTROC site. BTW, I found the entry where this whole B.S. started. The guy even admits to knowing he shouldn't be driving the way he was.

Here it is:

http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=25361

I understand their rationale for setting limits on warranties. I also recognize that there may be legal ramifications if they were to willfully perform warranty work on vehicles which were damaged as a result of "Exhibitions of Power", as it may seem as though they were condoning it. So I do not blame them for their warranty limitations (as much as I blame lawyers and the legal system). Still, if you're going to manufacture vehicles that are marketed on the basis of their (illegal) performance capabilities to buyers that are explicitly interested in those capabilities, it just seems wrong not to hold those vehicles to a different standard than subcompact economy car, for instance.

The other thing I don't like is that they must have a formula of some sort to determine whether 'w' number of launches is too many, whether 'x' rate of acceleration is too much, whether 'y' miles per hour is too fast, whether 'z' number of minutes at 180mph is too many, etc. It just seems disingenuous not to make that formula explicit, or perhaps even for there not to be some kind of a warning indicator that the vehicle's warranty has almost been voided or has been voided.

The bottom line is clarity. If I'm going to sink a major chunk of change into a performance vehicle, I desire clarity with respect to the warranty.

EDIT: For instance, the Porsche warranty is voided if the vehicle is abused. wtf does that mean? What, specifically, can I not do to it?

Ummm, you don't do clutch dumps at 6k-8k RPM 20 times in a row, you don't even do it 5 times in a row. The heat that generates will cause something to break. How come you and meme can't seem to grasp that ?

Look at it this way, there is no warranty from the factory on NASCARs or NHRA cars is there. If you wish to drive your street car as such, then expect to pay for that privledge, at your own risk. Keeping in mind that even NASCARs breakdown because of friction and heat, NHRA car's engines are broken down after EVERY run and parts replaced to try and insure no breakage on the next run, because of the heat and friction those cars generate. 10 to 20 clutch dumps at 6k-8k RPMs WILL destroy your car, and that is abuse.

If you buy a greyhound as a pet and continuously make it run on a treadmill at 30 mph for 1 minute at a time with a 2 minute break in between intervals for 1 hr. Then the dog dies of a heartattack, you gonna try to take it back to the breeder under warranty ?

Still seems crappy. It doesn't void a Porsche warranty to drive it hard.

Unfortunately it DOES meme. This is page 14 from the porscheusa.com online warranty for a 911. I took the liberty of bolding the important part. Amazingly, this is almost EXACTLY how the GT-R warranty booklet reads. Hmmmm, imagine that ?

"• Wheel balancing and wheel alignment beyond the first three months of

service unless part of a warranty repair.

• Unauthorized modifications or vehicles with total loss or salvage titles.

• Modifications not authorized by Porsche Cars N.A. or it’s authorized dealers.

• Service adjustments (such as idle speed, air/fuel mixture, brake,

clutch, headlight, and drive belts) beyond the first three months of

service unless part of a warranty repair.

• Improper repairs by someone other than Porsche Cars N.A. or its au-

thorized dealers.

• Abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use or

other events.

Note: Components and/or parts that fail during racing or driving events

(including Porsche sponsored events) will not be covered by the new

car limited warranty.

• Minor wind noise and insignificant seepage at the joints be-

tween the top and the body, or door windows in Cabriolet,

hardtop or Targa models cannot be completely avoided under

all circumstances. Your Cabriolet should not be washed in a

car wash and may experience damage to the top or rear win-

dow due to the scratching by the brushes or may experience

leaks due to the high pressure water streams directed in areas

which would not experience water in normal driving condi-

tions. It is extremely important to have the cabriolet and soft top

drains (including the body cowl drains) cleaned as part of yearly

maintenance. Failure to do so may result in subsequent damage.

Please see your authorized Porsche dealership for details con-

cerning required maintenance.

• The outside of the underbody (floor pan) or any other part of the car

except body panels.

• Paint damage caused by abuse or lack of proper maintenance.

• Environmental damage (such as that caused by acid rain or other in-

dustrial pollution, insect or bird droppings, tree sap, stones or other

flying missiles, highway maintenance chemicals, flood, storm, and

other forms of disaster.)

• Paint color matching. (Porsche Cars N.A. reserves the right to decide

whether painting the repaired or replaced panel to match the original

finish is practicable. Porsche Cars N.A. will not, under any circum-

stances, pay for painting the entire car solely for paint color match-

ing.)

• Paint damage caused by the application of unauthorized paint

sealants or polymers. See your authorized Porsche automobile dealer

for details.

•

Note: Your vehicle is a mechanical device. All mechanical de-

vices make some sort of noise and/or vibration. These noises

and vibrations can differ from vehicle to vehicle. Porsche Cars

N.A. recognizes those noises as normal and characteristic of

the product. Normal noises or vibrations as determined by

Porsche Cars N.A. can be anything from brake squeal to road

vibration. Therefore, normal noise and/or vibration and/or dete-

rioration as determined by Porsche Cars N.A. or its representa-

tive, is not covered by our new car limited warranty.

Your Responsibility for Maintenance

You must maintain your Porsche automobile according to the Maintenance

Schedule in the Maintenance Booklet and the Car Care Instructions in"

If Nissan says it can do a 3.4 second 0-60, then the owner should be able to do a 3.4 second 0-60 without breaking the transmission or voiding the warranty.

..and you can, as long as you give it the proper break in period and stuff. These fools that claim that the transmission cratered on them, were shotgunning it, dumping the clutch at 8k rpm a couple of dozen times within a short period, with 200 miles on the car. a $400k Ferrari can't handle that kind of stress, and Ferrari ain't gonna cover that abuse either. Edmunds.com and Car and Driver, have found no fault with their trannies and Edmunds has 11,000 miles on theirs and did the proper break-in and always do the required maintenance. Bottomline though is that if you are gonna treat it like a race car the whole time, then you better go hire yourself a pitcrew to fix it. Ferrari and Porsche, and Chevy, all have the same disclaimer, if you are drag racing it, at all times, then you will void the warranty. Those "numbers" are simply to show what it is capable of, not a blueprint on how it should be driven at all times. The owner's manual specifically states that you should adhere to the traffic laws while driving their product, and doing 0-60 in 3.4 is called EXHIBITION OF POWER. That is against the law. If you take it out to Texas Motor SPeedway and drive 180 mph for 10 laps, you will VOID your warranty. That is why the black box is in place, to keep people honest about how they treat their cars.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6138348.html

This is the second downtown shooting in two nights, and this is the reason I stopped going to clubs downtown a while back. Downtown needs to do something to stop attracting these types of people who carry guns in their pockets with them to the clubs and are willing to shoot someone over a stupid argument right there in the middle of Main St.

I had heard that downtown was trying to become less club oriented in the past couple years in order to attract more residents and keep the current ones from leaving, and also to make the nightlife safer around Main St.

Anyone know if downtown is still trying to make progress toward this end or has it become a lost cause?

Whew ! For a second there I thought the story was about Plaxico Burress.

Does anyone want to sell their gently used PS3 for some quick Xmas cash ? If you do, Please let me know how much you need for it. I have cash in hand, Thanks in advance.

"Feed the World/ Let them know it's Chistmas Time" , sorry folks, I just can't stand it.