houstonmacbro Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 when is enough enough...? is the american military and political machine so bullish and callous that we discount the lives of iraqi citizens in this war effort?***U.N. says 3,709 Iraqi civilians killed in October, a new monthly highGENEVA (AP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 How many were killed by U.S. soldiers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 How many were killed by U.S. soldiers?Good Question... How many were killed directly or indirectly by our soldiers? How many were killed by terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmm Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 The latest Iraqi Civilian Death Toll by the Iraqi Government is 150,000. If i remember correctly:66% blamed on Americans33% blamed on Terrorists/Baathists/Criminals/etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 66% blamed on AmericansIf examples like: "Iraqi citizens were in line to sign-up to become police officers but were blown-up by an Iraqi suicide-bomber.." count, then sure, 66% of the Iraqi casualities are our fault. We made the terrorists do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 And just how many of these 66% are Terrorists/Baathists/Criminals/etc? I am sure there is a significant figure there. Do you not think that there are Terrorists/Baathists/Criminals/etc that are also Iraqui citizens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmm Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 If examples like: "Iraqi citizens were in line to sign-up to become police officers but were blown-up by an Iraqi suicide-bomber.." count, then sure, 66% of the Iraqi casualities are our fault. We made the terrorists do it. Well, i got my information from two articles. The data about the number dead was from the Iraqi Health Minister who estimated 150,000 dead civilians. The other data about the percentages of those who caused the deaths were from an Arab Newspaper, which may or may not be found online. But i doubt itll do you any good because its in Arabii, and they dont have an english mirror site. The argument made was that the Americans had more sophisticated weaponry. For example, a bomb dropped over a village could kill 250 people. On the other hand, maybe one insurgent could only kill 25 people. Well, i dont know much about the US Military in Iraq. From what i hear (friends who were there/acquaintances/etc), it sounds like Iraq is a free-for-all with every man for himself. Its like capture the flag; whoever can hold the cities they capture the longest wins. Also, its not America vs Insurgents. Its more like: US Military & Britain/Korea/etc Baathists Islamists Shias Sunnis Secularists Kurdish Nationals etc Also influences from Syria, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, and whomever else. I mean these are things we hear from other people, and read on paper. Just sharing information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 The argument made was that the Americans had more sophisticated weaponry. For example, a bomb dropped over a village could kill 250 people. On the other hand, maybe one insurgent could only kill 25 people.Sophisticated weaponry allows for the possibility of greater destruction, but it also allows for greater precision. And in an age where media coverage seeks out and magnifies the specter of blood and guts, I'd expect that the latter option will almost always be chosen over the former.Well, i dont know much about the US Military in Iraq. From what i hear (friends who were there/acquaintances/etc), it sounds like Iraq is a free-for-all with every man for himself. Its like capture the flag; whoever can hold the cities they capture the longest wins. Also, its not America vs Insurgents. Its more like: US Military & Britain/Korea/etcBaathistsIslamistsShiasSunnisSecularistsKurdish NationalsetcAlso influences from Syria, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, and whomever else.This much seems to be true. Its a fustercluck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Something I find interesting is the number of Iraqis who have fled Iraq. It doesn't seem like a very big number.In other wars we've had waves of millions of people seeking refuge in neighborhing countries or even here in the United States. Think about the millions of Vietnamese and Hmong and Koreans and others who came here from our wars in Asia.I've only seen one estimate ever of the number of Iraqis who fled Iraq. It was from the BBC and the number was a little over a million. But it noted that for the most part they've settled in Damascus and other nearby cities, which is interesting to me because in so many of these conflicts people end up in tent cities.Interestingly, the BBC has also done a number of stories about the Iraqi entrepreneurs who have returned to their nation to rebuild or start up new businesses that weren't possible before. One I remember was about a guy who's helping set up a cell phone service in Iraq. Under Saddam cell phones were banned. And just a few months ago Iraq got its first ATM ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Interestingly, the BBC has also done a number of stories about the Iraqi entrepreneurs who have returned to their nation to rebuild or start up new businesses that weren't possible before. One I remember was about a guy who's helping set up a cell phone service in Iraq. Under Saddam cell phones were banned. And just a few months ago Iraq got its first ATM ever.Yeah, NPR had a fairly long discussion of the proliferation of cell phones in Afghanistan. They described life before and after the cellular revolution, and it was like comparing the U.S. circa 1870 with today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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