Soilder who goes AWOL to Canada comes back to surrender

[DJ V Lawrence]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4299871.html

In today's Chronicle, it writes about some dude named Kyle Snyder, who went AWOL (ran away for all the non-military dudes and dudettes out there) while on leave to avoid a second deployment to Iraq. Part of the article...

"I don't see a lot of positive things coming from this war," Snyder told reporters Tuesday morning at a Louisville church. "I see it as a counterproductive mission."

The 23-year-old from Colorado Springs, Colo., had trained as an engineer with the 94th Corps of Engineers, but he said he was put on patrol when he got to Iraq in 2004, something he said he wasn't trained to do.

Snyder said he began to turn against the war when he saw an innocent Iraqi man seriously wounded by American gunfire. He believed the shooting was not properly investigated.

Attorney James Fennerty said a deal has been reached to keep Snyder from being court-martialed. Instead, he said, Snyder will receive an other-than-honorable discharge.

He's getting an other-that-honorable discharge, not being court martialled, and I take it that he wasn't earning that much before surrendering at Fort Knox. I say that because I assume he's gonna want some extra cash, and is gonna gain instant 15-second fame with countless interviews like 60 Minutes and Larry King Live, and will write a tell-all book on what he saw in Iraq and his reasons for running. I expect him to become a millionaire, if that makes any sense.

I'm also curious about this story because I know a LOT of soilders in Iraq who have served proud of America, but not so proud of many of the political aspects around the war (President, inhumanity within units, lack of certain supplies, etc.). But they still serve because it's an obligation. I don't know if I believe Snyder when he says he wasn't "trained" to go on patrol when he was trained as an engineer. Going on patrol was something we were trained to do in Basic Training, THEN you go to AIT to learn your job. But if the shooting of this innocent Iraqi man was not properly investigated, would we have ever heard of it, and did those in his chain-of-command take the proper steps to see what Snyder was talking about prior to him running off with the Canucks?

I know we have a couple other veterans here on HAIF, and we have a few HAIFers who have strong opinions for or against this war in Iraq. What do you make of this story? What's next for Snyder? And what message does this send to other soilders who also may consider giving up if the reward is free tv time, over a million dollars, and your life? I'm sure a LOT of soilders overseas would love to be with their families right now. I know I wanted to...

[Jeebus]

I don't know if I believe Snyder when he says he wasn't "trained" to go on patrol when he was trained as an engineer. Going on patrol was something we were trained to do in Basic Training, THEN you go to AIT to learn your job.

What was your MOS in the Army DJ? I know that most MOS's, including Engineers (even 21B Combat Engineers) go to 8 week basic training courses before their AIT speciality school training - unlike the combat MOS's that go thru One Station Unit Training (OSUT) where the basic training & AIT is combined & extended. Even then for the combat MOS's, "patrol" training only lasts for a week, covers the basics of formations & movements, and is focused around a wilderness venue.

Only once you are deployed to your unit are you able to train for urban warfare, i.e. MOUT (Military Operations on Urban Terrain). This is only offered to a handful of Infantry, Cavalry, & Armor units. I've never heard of an Engineering unit training on MOUT. I have non-combat friends who served in Iraq who can testify to the Army throwing non-combat (support/logistic MOS) personnel into combat/MOUT roles. This includes one friend who was a welder state-side, who became a dismounted sector team leader, and another who was a Bradley Turret Mechanic who became a part of another sector mounted patrol team (Humvees with 60's). Neither of these guys MOS jobs had anything to do with combat. Neither had trained for such a situation, as all their training had been vocational courses to improve their mechanic skills. Needless to say, they were "knighted" as infantrymen, and reassigned as needed.

I agree that every soldier is a soldier first and professional second, but we need to train our professionals to be soldiers first if we are to expect sucess from them.

Some will call this guy a disserter and maybe even a coward - but if all the facts come to light, and what he says is true, then it will be hard to call him that - when he will be speaking for a large majority of troops.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

This guy is not only a rat bastard but a complete idiot in my book! A nasty freeloading jackass that signed up to protect and defend the US constitution and to obey the chain of command and then he runs when the orders come down. I have nothing but disgust for him. The US Military IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, its there to protect and defend our democratic way of life. This isnt a draft situation, he VOLUTEERED!!!!! Its garbage like this that give me concern. He should rest assured that people like me no longer have a role in military life and decisions for it we did, his silly ass would be raked over the coals.

[Jeebus]

This guy is not only a rat bastard but a complete idiot in my book! A nasty freeloading jackass that signed up to protect and defend the US constitution and to obey the chain of command and then he runs when the orders come down. I have nothing but disgust for him. The US Military IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, its there to protect and defend our democratic way of life. This isnt a draft situation, he VOLUTEERED!!!!! Its garbage like this that give me concern. He should rest assured that people like me no longer have a role in military life and decisions for it we did, his silly ass would be raked over the coals.

You're absolutely 100% right - he volunteered. He volunteered to become an engineer, and not a combat police officer. This isn't WW2, and our backs are not up against the wall. We shouldn't be there, but since we are, we should at least be using our tools correctly. You don't use a k-tool as eating utensil, so why should you use an engineer as a police officer.

Speaking of which, how many of our combat soldiers do you think have been adequately trained to perform their current roles of law enforcement/peace keepers there? How many have been to urban warfare school? How many have been to MP school? How many have been to both? Its easy for politicians to justify soldiers not getting this training when the freedom of the United States is not actually threatened by this success or failure of this occupation - even though it is killing these very same soldiers in the occupation.

There are two types of orders that your superior can give you that you can challenge: unjust & unlawful. I would think that ordering non-trained soldiers to perform combat duties would constitute unlawful as it needlessly endangers the lives of those not properly trained.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

You're absolutely 100% right - he volunteered. He volunteered to become an engineer, and not a combat police officer. This isn't WW2, and our backs are not up against the wall. We shouldn't be there, but since we are, we should at least be using our tools correctly. You don't use a k-tool as eating utensil, so why should you use an engineer as a police officer.

Speaking of which, how many of our combat soldiers do you think have been adequately trained to perform their current roles of law enforcement/peace keepers there? How many have been to urban warfare school? How many have been to MP school? How many have been to both? Its easy for politicians to justify soldiers not getting this training when the freedom of the United States is not threatened by this success or failure of this occupation - even if it is killing these very same soldiers in the occupation.

There are two types of orders that your superior can give you that you can challenge: unjust & unlawful. I would think that ordering non-trained soldiers to perform combat duties would constitute unlawful as it needlessly endangers the lives of those not properly trained.

He volunteered to join the US military and that means the possibity of combat. It seems that has been lost over the years since the 1990's when you have people joining the ARMED FORCES of the USA and dont know thier training teaches them to kill and play supporting roles that causes killings to happen. Goes back to the whole limp wrist thing. This sort of stuff you are saying ONLY happens when we stray away from the kill kill and end all solution policy. With kill kill and end all, there is no room for BS! Neither policy advocates policing actions. Our country is too obsessed with what the world thinks and that is one of the greatest dangers to our forces. When we have military commercials on TV regularly to try to encourage people to join the Armed Forces of the USA, that actually sickens me!! Tells me a lot about the way country is going!!

I have NEVER been for and NEVER will be for the US military playing a law enforcement or what is it commonly called, a peace keeping role. I FIRMLY believe that when our forces are committed to the battlefield it should be for the singular purpose of winning and winning only and that includes by ANY MEANS Necessary!

As for politicians, they can lick the bottom of my shoes. Im not into that poitical garbage!

[Guest Marty]

Line him up against the cenderblock wall and pull the trigger. The United States has no use for him.

[dbigtex56]

As for politicians, they can lick the bottom of my shoes. Im not into that poitical garbage!

?

I thought you were in favor of defending "our democratic way of life". How come, if you think it's "garbage"? After all, you can't have a representative democracy without politicians.

[TJones]

Maybe this soldier is one of the smart ones, according to John Kerry, who didn't get "STUCK in Iraq" ?

He should rest assured that people like me no longer have a role in military life and decisions for it we did, his silly ass would be raked over the coals.

Maybe a little "bar soap in the towel" beating would cure him of his ills Moonman ?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

?

I thought you were in favor of defending "our democratic way of life". How come, if you think it's "garbage"? After all, you can't have a representative democracy without politicians.

I think politicians are garbage, not our democratic way of life in general. i think politicians are liars and cheats and i have very little respect for them until they have proven otherwise. i dont subscibe to any particular party. I vote based on usually a single issue or 2. My type of voting style is a danger to political parties in general, it means they would really have to work for my vote. If more people get on that bandwagon, we will see a lot of change in the way politicians conduct themselves.

This guy is one of several that have pulled this run to Canada stunt and it aggravates me to no end!!

[Jeebus]

He volunteered to join the US military and that means the possibity of combat. It seems that has been lost over the years since the 1990's when you have people joining the ARMED FORCES of the USA and dont know thier training teaches them to kill and play supporting roles that causes killings to happen.

You need to examine the the US Army's currest standard training curiculum. Very little is mentioned about killing. Very few MOS jobs even involve the use of firearms.

This is not the Marine Corps. You need to recognize that first. The US Army is a very diverse military force. To imply that logistal professionals in the military need to be able to acknowledge that they are trained to kill first, and that their first priority in a peace-keeping mission is to kill is severely misguided & outdated.

The smartest & simplest solution? Pull-out.

EDIT: Just for the record, if this man were a combat MOS soldier (Infantry, Armor, Artillery, or Cavalry), then yes, I would agree with you Moon.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

You need to examine the the US Army's currest standard training curiculum. Very little is mentioned about killing. Very few MOS jobs even involve the use of firearms.

Theres the problem

The US Army is a very diverse military force. To imply that logistal professionals in the military need to be able to acknowledge that they are trained to kill first, and that their first priority in a peace-keeping mission is to kill is severely misguided & outdated.

I am not implying it , i demand it! Anyone that wears the uniform of this nation had better be trained to kill! They are the front and only line of defense between us and any enemy or percieved enemey of the United States!!! If they are not recieving that sort of training, then lets stop spending money on uniforms and equipment and purchase a bunch of discounted mini-skirts instead. That would be the proper attire for the stuff you have described. I dont believe in using our military in peace keeping missions. They are not the police contrary to what some people believe. The Army has been diverse for many many years, this isnt something new. Also the statement below isnt new either and i wish it would go away

The smartest & simplest solution? Pull-out.

Very very LIMP WRIST and i hate it!!!

[nmainguy]

[quote name='Houston1stWordOnTheMoon' date='Wednesday, November 1st, 2006 @ 11:43am' it aggravates me to no end!!

[nmm]

I have NEVER been for and NEVER will be for the US military playing a law enforcement or what is it commonly called, a peace keeping role. I FIRMLY believe that when our forces are committed to the battlefield it should be for the singular purpose of winning and winning only and that includes by ANY MEANS Necessary!

So Mr H1WOTM, if the US Military doesnt play a law enforcement role now, then who does?

What i mean to say is, youve already won the war (whatever the purpose was behind waging it). So who takes care of whats left?

Do you just pick up and leave as soon as you topple Saddam's statue? Who comes in to support the infrastructure and provide Security?

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

So Mr H1WOTM, if the US Military doesnt play a law enforcement role now, then who does?

This is of no concern to me and it shouldnt be of concern to the military. That is political crap that leads to nothing but more deaths of our fighting forces. Army tactics or not my specialty, but strategy is. In the school of strategy, entering the US Military into peace keeping/police roles is counter productive because it forces a change to the rules of engagement. This is based on my old school stuff and it is more than evident that things have changed to the limp wrist stuff we see happening today.

[DJ V Lawrence]

This is of no concern to me and it shouldnt be of concern to the military. That is political crap that leads to nothing but more deaths of our fighting forces. Army tactics or not my specialty, but strategy is. In the school of strategy, entering the US Military into peace keeping/police roles is counter productive because it forces a change to the rules of engagement. This is based on my old school stuff and it is more than evident that things have changed to the limp wrist stuff we see happening today.

Have some common sense, Moondude. How is Halliburton supposed to get paid with posts like these? OH SNAP! FLABBERGASTIC!!

In all seriousness, that is part of the military's role. Ever heard of an MP? What's that stand for? Military Police. The handcuffs aren't on them just to arrest Kevin Federline, yo (but they should. Hell..)

You've gotta recognize the fact that peacekeeping/rebuilding war-torn areas and enforcing law ARE a part of strategy for the military and American protection. And the rules of engagement are not the same and universal for every combat zone because let's face it; every warzone's different. Iraq and Vietnam 4 example are two totally different places with two different types of combatants, tactics, and innocent people in the middle that don't deserve the fate of an enemy. You shouldn't expect the same rules of engagement in both places.

Line him up against the cenderblock wall and pull the trigger. The United States has no use for him.

I feel the same way about the St. Louis Cardinals...

Yo Jeebus, I was a 25B (Information Technology Specialist. Network Engineer, in other words. Computers. Ever seen Office Space, yo? ) But I guess it was a different world when we trained. Basic during Sept. 11th. We expected some of us to go to war, so we put a LOT of emphasis on patrol. But yea, we were training in the woods. We didn't have urban warfare training like the soilders in Iraq are facing today. That's probably changed since I've been gone.

[nmainguy]

This is based on my old school stuff and it is more than evident that things have changed to the limp wrist stuff we see happening today.