Pasadena Speculation And Opinions Welcome

[tamarah]

I'm just curious as to what some of the readers on this forum may think of Pasadenas future in terms of being a good place to live, location in the general houston area, &/ the future of real estate there. I am hoping some of you may use the pasadena place subdivision as something to comment on in a thread since I've seen some nice, older renovated homes w/ sweet, elderly neighbors. I've just encountered quite a bit of condescension from those in the itl + katy when referencing pasadena as something that hasn't been recognized for the value it poses since ppl. have pushed out north and west of houston, but not quite yet to the east.

[FilioScotia]

I'm just curious as to what some of the readers on this forum may think of Pasadenas future in terms of being a good place to live, location in the general houston area, &/ the future of real estate there. I am hoping some of you may use the pasadena place subdivision as something to comment on in a thread since I've seen some nice, older renovated homes w/ sweet, elderly neighbors. I've just encountered quite a bit of condescension from those in the itl + katy when referencing pasadena as something that hasn't been recognized for the value it poses since ppl. have pushed out north and west of houston, but not quite yet to the east.

You ask a difficult question. As someone who grew up in Pasadena in the 1950s, I remember it as a nice place to live. Of course, back then, it had almost no minorities. It was 98 percent Anglo white and about two percent Hispanic. There were no blacks. None. My 1961 graduating class at Pasadena High had no blacks, nor were there any at South Houston High, the one other HS at the time.

Also, at that time, the commercial center of Pasadena was still the old downtown area along 225 between South Shaver and Red Bluff road. The area long Southmore, Richey and Tatar (now Pasadena Blvd) was also very busy commercially, and it was clear even then that the commercial center was moving south toward Spencer Highway. Fairmont Parkway hadn't been built yet.

Residentially, there were a number of nice neighborhoods, in the old part of town and newer more upscale subdivisions out on the edges of town. Revlon Terrace, Red Bluff Terrace, Bennett Estates, Stadium Estates (south of Southmore along Pasadena Blvd)

Since the 60s though, the town has changed a lot. Pasadena's city limits now go a lot farther out to take in a lot more residential areas with large minority populations. The ethnic and racial makeup of Pasadena is very different now.

I can tell you that people outside Pasadena have always been condescending when the city is mentioned. You live in Stinkadena? harhar. It's also true that Pasadena has always had a lot of people from east Texas and Louisiana, who came there to work in the industries along the ship channel. That's why Pasadena has always had a "redneck" reputation. That's not going to change in my lifetime.

The future? I think it looks good, especially south of Southmore along Spencer Highway and Fairmont Parkway. It's developing and growing fast. It has a future, but I don't know what's going to happen to the old part of town between 225 and Southmore, and the area north of 225. There are a lot of lovely old 1930s and 40s homes in those neighborhoods, but it's going to take some people willing to come in with rehab money to re-energize the area.

The old Pasadena Gardens on Jackson and Thomas Streets is done for. It was well on the way to being a slum in the 60s and it's worse now. It's a blight on the whole town. Nothing left to do but tear it all down and redevelop it, the way they did with the old Southmore Heights Duplex neighborhood between Harris and Southmore.

You don't remember that area? You're lucky. It was a slum in the fifties, but it was finally torn down and the whole tract between Harris and Southmore was sold to developers who built that shopping mall and all the other commercial development along Harris, Southmore and Pasadena Blvd. I always feel a little strange when I drive through that area and remember a neighborhood that doesn't exist anymore.

[bachanon]

personally, i would avoid any pasadena zip code. there is a reason that people from deer park (practically pasadena in my book) make it a point to note that they are not from pasadena. deer park is sandwiched in between la porte and pasadena. it has new subdivisions; however, it is still plagued by the pollution, smell, gangs and so on. there are affordable places near the loop that are still affordable and improving in price and character. maybe danax or one of the other south/southeast side people could chime in.

i've had family "stuck" in pasadena my entire life. my parents moved us out in 1973 because of increased crime and bad schools. it is worse now. there is a unique culture there that is not positive. i would suggest staying to the south of fairmont parkway. north, between fairmont parkway and 225 is a hodgepodge of ghettos, strip clubs, hotels by the hour and saloons. there are pockets of new development, but the negative elements wander around all night long. i loathe pasadena not only for the smell, but for the sorry schools, ineffective police force, bad roads, empty lots, drug houses, difficult soil, constant flooding and so on. the best thing that ever happened to pasadena was beltway eight.....it makes it easier to leave.

[jlt1988]

A recent Rice University study (collaborators were Baylor College of Medicine, TSU, UH Law Center, and UT Med Center Galveston) has alarmed many people in the medical community. The polluted air contains unhealthy levels of 1,3-butadiene (20 times higher than the level in Los Angeles) and benzene, both of which come from petrochemical plants, although 1,3-butadiene also comes from car exhaust. These chemicals raise the risk of developing cancer. The entire report can be found here: http://ceve.rice.edu.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

People still use the terms "Stinkadena" and "Pasa-get-down-dena"?

[TheNiche]

I'm just curious as to what some of the readers on this forum may think of Pasadenas future in terms of being a good place to live, location in the general houston area, &/ the future of real estate there. I am hoping some of you may use the pasadena place subdivision as something to comment on in a thread since I've seen some nice, older renovated homes w/ sweet, elderly neighbors. I've just encountered quite a bit of condescension from those in the itl + katy when referencing pasadena as something that hasn't been recognized for the value it poses since ppl. have pushed out north and west of houston, but not quite yet to the east.

I personally rank the older parts of the refinery towns south of the ship channel as follows: Morgan's Point, La Porte, Pasadena, Deer Park. Each of them have very very low property taxes and are still flush with money on account of having such a massive commercial tax base. Deer Park has had a bad reputation related to a KKK presence from way back...I've heard that most of those folks picked up and moved to Vidor, but don't know whether or not to take that too seriously. Deer Park is also butt ugly compared to most parts of Pasadena IMO.

The pollution is bad compared to other parts of the metro area, but if you actually crunch the numbers, it doesn't result in a great many more incidents of cancer per person. A lot of those studies have to make assumptions regarding levels of exposure, and most folks don't live their lives in one place, so the harmful effects of living or working in any given place are mitigated by daily personal movement or even just by shifting winds. And the smells can range from sweet to dirty diapers from my experience. Some are quite nice, actually.

As far as investment potentials in Pasadena are concerned, there are a fair number of good opportunities on the south side of the city. Relatively fewer investments to be made in the north...the old vacant office building at Southmore/Pasadena was a good one. I and a partner tried to negotiate for that building with a plan to renovate it into tax credit seniors' housing, but the broker kept flaking out on our attempts at meeting him. One day, I discovered from a post on the forum (and not a phone call from him) that the building sold for about half what I would've been willing to pay him at the high end...but then he wouldn't have known that because he kept on not showing up and not returning calls in a timely manner.

[bachanon]

i didn't read the entire rice u. report. the results alone are more than unsettling. east loop/225 area are where some of the highest levels of these carcinogens are being found.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

A recent Rice University study (collaborators were Baylor College of Medicine, TSU, UH Law Center, and UT Med Center Galveston) has alarmed many people in the medical community. The polluted air contains unhealthy levels of 1,3-butadiene (20 times higher than the level in Los Angeles) and benzene, both of which come from petrochemical plants, although 1,3-butadiene also comes from car exhaust. These chemicals raise the risk of developing cancer. The entire report can be found here: http://ceve.rice.edu.

Since we're talking about Pasadena here, it's interesting that the study you link to shows higher concentrations of butadiene, benzene, diesel particulates and formaldehyde in Houston than in Pasadena.

Obviously we know where these toxic chemicals come from (Pasadena/Ship Channel area), but the maps in the study you referenced sure makes it appear that Houston (inside the Loop, and not just the east side) receives much more of the pollution than the residential areas of Pasadena (i.e., areas south of 225).

And FWIW, I'm another person that doesn't quite understand Deer Park's supposed superiority over Pasadena. Deer Park doesn't hold a candle to South Pasadena...and DP isn't much nicer than most of old Pasadena.

[TheNiche]

i didn't read the entire rice u. report. the results alone are more than unsettling. east loop/225 area are where some of the highest levels of these carcinogens are being found.

The very first post that I ever made on HAIF was around this same time last year in response to the Chronicle's coverage of last year's iteration of the same study. I pushed the predictions in the study to unreasonable maximums over an inappropriately huge geographic area and determined, if I recall correctly, that the sum total of lost life was equivalent to about seven full lifetimes.

The odds that you'd die prematurely as a result of pollution exposures was remarkably low compared to any number of alternative means of premature death. ...but you'll never see the Chronicle write about stairwells that aren't built to code, showers without suction-cupped mats that provide traction, or slippery tile or concrete floors. They aren't scary enough, even though falls are far far far more deadly on a per capita basis.

[gnu]

And FWIW, I'm another person that doesn't quite understand Deer Park's supposed superiority over Pasadena. Deer Park doesn't hold a candle to South Pasadena...and DP isn't much nicer than most of old Pasadena.

I think most of it comes from the school district. From what i have heard, Most families in the area would prefer to attend DPisD rather than Pasadena isd. However, some areas inside Pasadena CITY limits are in deer park isd.

[VicMan]

Some areas in the Pasadena city limits are in Clear Creek ISD too.

[Double L]

It's pretty much just an industrial city.

[TheNiche]

It's pretty much just an industrial city.

But it is more than that. It also has the second largest population of any incorporated municipality in the Houston area.

[rps324]

I'm just curious as to what some of the readers on this forum may think of Pasadenas future in terms of being a good place to live, location in the general houston area, &/ the future of real estate there. I am hoping some of you may use the pasadena place subdivision as something to comment on in a thread since I've seen some nice, older renovated homes w/ sweet, elderly neighbors. I've just encountered quite a bit of condescension from those in the itl + katy when referencing pasadena as something that hasn't been recognized for the value it poses since ppl. have pushed out north and west of houston, but not quite yet to the east.

Out of idle curiosity, what is it that is the attraction for you in Pasadena? Do you have family and/or friends there? Closer to work? Or is it just the potential to get a certain type or size house for the right price? Etc..

[tamarah]

Out of idle curiosity, what is it that is the attraction for you in Pasadena? Do you have family and/or friends there? Closer to work? Or is it just the potential to get a certain type or size house for the right price? Etc..

I actually have no family in texas, nor do I work there. I'm pretty much a happy wanderer who lives btwn. N. Ca., the greater houston area (katy + soon pasadena for a few wks. before heading back to bavaria) + germany--it's a long story I'll save you from. I recently purchased a home in the pasadena place subdivision that was great to me since it has a very serene atmosphere + quiet neighbors + interesting design + totally renovated. I actually like my pasadena home more than my home in katys williamsburg settlement for the fact that it seems to have some personality compared to the cookie-cutter look w.s. has. I wanted to see if I could find parallels in comments about pasadena about comments w/ what san jose, ca, e. palo alto, and all those other supposedly cruddy areas in N. Ca. that are now trendy places to be simply because the cities proximity to major hubs.

As an alumna from Mount Holyoke College (it has no pull in texas or the west coast--but the ppl. who need to know about it do. It's emily dickinsons old alma mater and the historically first womans college), some papers in my first year english class focused on something that may have some play in opinions on pasadena and other "less desirable" areas. Students were writing about crimes that occur (of course mostly the ones that are able to be covered up--not like bludgeoning someone to death) in wealthy communities and their conviction rates. The conclusion was that the same stuff occurs in all income levels + races, the wealthier are just more hidden and have clout on the wrong doers side to cover up the crime. I also feel as if ppl. are apprehensive about living in areas w/ a high population of minorities + watched the n. california cities I mentioned above turn into productive communities w/ some wealth. Needless to say, the minorities are the majority now in Santa Clara county + other parts of the s. bay area of ca (just drove through there today--will be in texas in 2 days! yay!) and I see a correlation between hardworking immigrants who played a hand in converting their communities into trendy places to be even though they were once snubbed for living where they lived. I just thought pasadena is too close to the heart of downtown houston for it not to parallel what happened in n. ca. Perhaps there's no logic in comparing the two + of course I was hoping for validation in responses since i did buy a home there, but I'm totally open to having my opinion blown out of the water...who will be right in 15 years down the line? #$&! we're all dying of cancer these days. Even salad kills! I don't know what place is truly safe. Even the green, green germany I live in that sells ONLY food without pesticides occasionally has cases of mad cow disease...ok, I'm digressing. But since I enjoy this forum I'd like to put something out there that is random knowledge but may be of some help to someone--try checking out the Fort Riley area (n.e. kansas). The houses there have a much better return in rent than some areas. I purchased a 152k home in july, found a renter in 6 days and rent it out for 1500/mo. The ppl. are building like crazy there and active duty soldiers have a bit more of a reliability in rent factor than civilians + take into account that the housing waiting lists are long with the fact that there will be 20,000 additional troops added between now and 2010/2011 (and that's not even including dependents and the civ. workers that come along). OK, I'll stop now. Enjoy your day everybody, from what I've experienced in houston it's a nice place to be!

[TheNiche]

Students were writing about crimes that occur (of course mostly the ones that are able to be covered up--not like bludgeoning someone to death) in wealthy communities and their conviction rates. The conclusion was that the same stuff occurs in all income levels + races, the wealthier are just more hidden and have clout on the wrong doers side to cover up the crime.

There are a lot of factors, but make no mistake about it, there are fewer and less serious crimes (i.e. white collar or victimless crimes) in wealthier areas. The police/security forces tend to be better or at least more numerous, and wealthy people have more to lose if they are caught. Somebody who's desperately poor, on the other hand, might see jail as something not quite so undesirable...especially in winter months. So there are disincentives in place for the most destructive of crimes amongst higher-income individuals.

I just thought pasadena is too close to the heart of downtown houston for it not to parallel what happened in n. ca. Perhaps there's no logic in comparing the two + of course I was hoping for validation in responses since i did buy a home there, but I'm totally open to having my opinion blown out of the water...who will be right in 15 years down the line?

If I were you, I'd have looked a little bit closer in for that kind of cultural shift. There is so much flat developable land here that big changes to areas can take a bit of time. For what you describe, the East End seems like it'll be the epicenter. I envision the day that it gets to Pasadena, but it is a good ways down the line.

Incidentally, the City of Pasadena (wealthy from property taxes on refineries) is soliciting bids for a huge study of the northern sector and is seeking ways to revitalize the general area. And very importantly, it has enough money that the city might just be able to pull it off! Just like Grapevine was able to revitalize its downtown because it draws from the tax base that is DFW airport.

Even salad kills! I don't know what place is truly safe. Even the green, green germany I live in that sells ONLY food without pesticides occasionally has cases of mad cow disease...ok, I'm digressing.

Not only does salad kill...ORGANIC salad kills! Funny, eh? Funnier yet, many of the European countries are all up in arms about hormones this and genetic modification that. I used to have an economics professor at UH that could really tear into those folks by citing specific studies and the journals they were published in from memory. I only wish that I could recall his arguments with enough precision to be willing to share them. I remember that they were very very good, often hilariously simple.

[bachanon]

Incidentally, the City of Pasadena (wealthy from property taxes on refineries) is soliciting bids for a huge study of the northern sector and is seeking ways to revitalize the general area. And very importantly, it has enough money that the city might just be able to pull it off! Just like Grapevine was able to revitalize its downtown because it draws from the tax base that is DFW airport.

i've often wondered if pasadena had the means and desire to do this. i thought that if they would focus on a central, highly traveled area or specific streets for improvement, they might create a city center of sorts for the pasadena area.

[FilioScotia]

i've often wondered if pasadena had the means and desire to do this. i thought that if they would focus on a central, highly traveled area or specific streets for improvement, they might create a city center of sorts for the pasadena area.

I think they do have the desire to do it, and they certainly have the means. Pasadena is a property rich city and it can certainly afford it.

They also know they have to do something to revitalize the old north side. The view from Hwy 225 is the only view of Pasadena many people ever get, and as we all know, from 225 Pasadena looks like the armpit of Harris County.

[TheNiche]

They also know they have to do something to revitalize the old north side. The view from Hwy 225 is the only view of Pasadena many people ever get, and as we all know, from 225 Pasadena looks like the armpit of Harris County.

Well there's not much that they can do about the refineries or tank farms, but the few glimpses of non-industrial Pasadena that you get from 225 aren't too incredibly bad. There is a park and school around Vince Bayou that appear to be nice. Then there's the old El Capitan theater, which is usually lit up at night. There's also a BBQ shack that was creatively built from two 40-foot cargo containers...it always catches my eye anyway.

[FilioScotia]

Well there's not much that they can do about the refineries or tank farms, but the few glimpses of non-industrial Pasadena that you get from 225 aren't too incredibly bad. There is a park and school around Vince Bayou that appear to be nice. Then there's the old El Capitan theater, which is usually lit up at night. There's also a BBQ shack that was creatively built from two 40-foot cargo containers...it always catches my eye anyway.

You're being more charitable than I'm willing to be. I agree that Pasadena Memorial Park is nice, but that's just one small but scenic corner of an otherwise blighted part of town. The old downtown area along 225 and Shaw Street is simply pathetic. It looks like the ghost town it is. I can remember when it was a busy and thriving commercial center with all kinds of stores, but that was more than a generation ago.

The residential areas along and close to 225 are all very old, and most are showing their age and not in a good way. There is one very nice old neighborhood adjacent to the park, west of Shaver behind Pasadena High, and extending south to Jackson Street. Some beautiful old homes back in there.

But you're right about the industrial view. Nothing anybody can do about that.

[TheNiche]

You're being more charitable than I'm willing to be.

It probably helps that I only see what is and not what was.

[FilioScotia]

It probably helps that I only see what is and not what was.

That's my problem. I grew up there and I remember what it was, and I wish it could still be that way today. You had to be there when it was a nice suburb, and watch its decline over the decades. I think Pasadena's business and residential center has moved to the south because the city leaders have thrown up their hands with the north side of town. They don't know what to do with it.

I think they've done their best with some of the old commercial areas like the Corrigan Shopping Center and the Capitan Theater. They couldn't get businesses back into that shopping center so they turned it into a public office complex. The decaying residential areas are something else and far more complicated. I'm talking about the area north of 225, and south of 225 down to about Harris Street.

Believe me there is nothing more depressing than seeing the place where you lived and grew to maturity go to seed the way north Pasadena has over the years.

[Guest danax]

Then there's the old El Capitan theater, which is usually lit up at night.

When I drive by on the 225 at night and see that place down there, surrounded by the refineries, it looks like something Edward Hopper would've painted; surreal loneliness.

Just the drive itself on the 225 is surreal. It looks like something out of National Geographic.

[TheNiche]

Just the drive itself on the 225 is surreal. It looks like something out of National Geographic.

Agreed. And I like it for just that reason.

ESPECIALLY during a big flare.

EDIT: Btw, thank you for mentioning Edward Hopper, as it prompted me to check out his works just now. My knowledge of art history is profoundly lacking, so I was very pleasantly surprised. Gas, Nighthawks, and House by a Road are my favorites, as well as the several where various people were sitting on a bed at dawn, a window in the background letting in very well represented natural light.

[VicMan]

According to this, Pasadena ISD (serves most of Pasadena, some of Houston, and the city of South Houston) is growing; I'm not sure if all parts of PISD are growing, or if it's just the south belt part (the non-ghetto areas as described by bachanon) with Dobie and Pasadena Memorial.

See http://www.pasadenaisd.org/bond2004/growth.htm

Even though the bit of Pasadena in Clear Creek ISD isn't really thought of as Pasadena, it's still considered to be a good area (the Endeavour is in the Pasadena city limits).

[FilioScotia]

According to this, Pasadena ISD (serves most of Pasadena, some of Houston, and the city of South Houston) is growing; I'm not sure if all parts of PISD are growing, or if it's just the south belt part (the non-ghetto areas as described by bachanon) with Dobie and Pasadena Memorial.

See http://www.pasadenaisd.org/bond2004/growth.htm

Even though the bit of Pasadena in Clear Creek ISD isn't really thought of as Pasadena, it's still considered to be a good area (the Endeavour is in the Pasadena city limits).

There's a funny story about how the Pasadena city limits made it all way down to Clear Lake. Until the very early sixties, the Pasadena city limits ended north of Spencer Highway, because Pasadena was completely surrounded by Houston, South Houston, and Deer Park. That's why you've always been able to buy beer and booze on Spencer Highway, even though Pasadena is dry.

Anyway, Pasadena couldn't annex or grow because it was landlocked. Then sometime around 1960, there were rumors that a huge space science complex was going to be built somewhere in the Clear Lake area. It was also true that some big companies were talking openly of building huge new plants in the same area.

The story I heard at the time was that the Mayor of Pasadena made some kind of under the table deal with the Mayor of Deer Park, and persuaded the Deer Park mayor and city council to dis-annex a small piece of its territory over where it bumped up against Pasadena. This created a hole in the lines that gave Pasadena an unobstructed shot at a lot of unincorporated territory, and Pasadena took it. They went galloping through that hole like a running back and annexed everything from its former city limit line south all the way to Hwy 146 and Clear Lake. I've never learned what the Pasadena mayor had to promise the Deer Park mayor to make that happen.

This is why parts of the Clear Creek ISD and some bay area residential and industrial areas are in Pasadena.

[PasadenaTexan]

My God You folks sure do Hate Pasadena,Texas around here. I have lived here for 49 years of my 50 and I love it, Crime is no where as bad as you non citizens rant about. Developement in our Southern section of town is flourishing we have not fallen pry to Urban Blight as you all seem to believe. North Pasadena is all but forgotten by developers in recent years, but there are plans in the works to revitalize Old Pasadena. Putting us Down nowadays with our once infamous nickname " Stinkadena" is so unfair. Where would big old Houston be withoput us over here in Pasadena,Deer Park,Baytown & LaPorte making all of the Oil & Gasoline Products that helped Houston get so Rich & Powerful. Come on over and see Pasadena Past your dim view from Hwy 225. Our Tall Lady the 1st Pasadena State Bank once Proudly told Harris County we had Money and Power of our Own. Don't just insult a place that is the 2nd largest city in Harris County, 156 largest in Texas. I and we in Pasadena Texas have Feelings and civic Pride as well.

[The Great Hizzy!]

My God You folks sure do Hate Pasadena,Texas around here. I have lived here for 49 years of my 50 and I love it, Crime is no where as bad as you non citizens rant about. Developement in our Southern section of town is flourishing we have not fallen pry to Urban Blight as you all seem to believe. North Pasadena is all but forgotten by developers in recent years, but there are plans in the works to revitalize Old Pasadena. Putting us Down nowadays with our once infamous nickname " Stinkadena" is so unfair. Where would big old Houston be withoput us over here in Pasadena,Deer Park,Baytown & LaPorte making all of the Oil & Gasoline Products that helped Houston get so Rich & Powerful. Come on over and see Pasadena Past your dim view from Hwy 225. Our Tall Lady the 1st Pasadena State Bank once Proudly told Harris County we had Money and Power of our Own. Don't just insult a place that is the 2nd largest city in Harris County, 156 largest in Texas. I and we in Pasadena Texas have Feelings and civic Pride as well.

Don't worry about it. Human beings generalize quite a bit nowadays. Pasadena is essentially what most established municipalities have become: aged, with some warts and some successes. The southern third of Pasadena continues to prosper while the northern part, given its location, is having a harder time sharing in that prosperity.

[citizen4rmptown]

My God You folks sure do Hate Pasadena,Texas around here. I have lived here for 49 years of my 50 and I love it, Crime is no where as bad as you non citizens rant about. Developement in our Southern section of town is flourishing we have not fallen pry to Urban Blight as you all seem to believe. North Pasadena is all but forgotten by developers in recent years, but there are plans in the works to revitalize Old Pasadena. Putting us Down nowadays with our once infamous nickname " Stinkadena" is so unfair. Where would big old Houston be withoput us over here in Pasadena,Deer Park,Baytown & LaPorte making all of the Oil & Gasoline Products that helped Houston get so Rich & Powerful. Come on over and see Pasadena Past your dim view from Hwy 225. Our Tall Lady the 1st Pasadena State Bank once Proudly told Harris County we had Money and Power of our Own. Don't just insult a place that is the 2nd largest city in Harris County, 156 largest in Texas. I and we in Pasadena Texas have Feelings and civic Pride as well.

I couldn't agree more, they not only plan to find a use for the 1st Pasadena State Bank Bldng.

,but they are expanding the central library and building a new police department. Plus, pisd. is a national model school district of 08. The north side is slowly transforming itself, but give it time and it wont be a dump as some of you like to refer it to.

[TheNiche]

I couldn't agree more, they not only plan to find a use for the 1st Pasadena State Bank Bldng.

,but they are expanding the central library and building a new police department. Plus, pisd. is a national model school district of 08. The north side is slowly transforming itself, but give it time and it wont be a dump as some of you like to refer it to.

Who is they?