The Fort Worth Forum

[C2H]

Surfing the net i came across The Fort Worth forum. i didn't know they had their own forum. dallasmetropolis.com is actually head titled "Dallas-Fort Worth Urban Forum". Our friendly in-state rivalry doesn't seem to involve them though. I apologize in advance to anyone who already knew about this forum. I see our fellow member 2112 already discovered it but its my first time seeing it. Anyway, it's worth taking a look at to see what the other side of the metroplex's viewpoints are. Check it out

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum...p?showtopic=698

[Willy1]

Just wanted the Houston Forum to know that the FW Forum got hit by a hacker and has been down for nearly a week now. I don't know who it was, but they got taken out...

[WTx]

Its back up now!

[North Texas Native]

Im new here but just wanted to say that it looks like the TU Tower is now dead. It would of been the tallest tower in Fort Worth . And the fith tallest in Texas.

Most here maybe asking "what TU tower"? LOL. Most of the folks in the Fort Worth forum said it was dead on the day it was announced!

That makes two towers that Fort Worth got that were DOA in the last year. I love to know what Houston office market is but Fort Worth is a very tight 97% filled. Dallas is like around 25 to 35 percent open!

[troyboy]

Doesn't downtown Fort Worth have like only 4 or 5 class A speculative towers? All under 40 stories?? The same 4 or five since the mid 80's? Also downtown Fort Worth is very small. To compare it's leasabilty with Dallas or Houston is absurd. I do find the downtown charming, but Fort Worth has got to have the worst skyline of any large city in the country. It looks like a bomb hit it.

[Willy1]

Doesn't downtown Fort Worth have like only 4 or 5 class A speculative towers? All under 40 stories?? The same 4 or five since the mid 80's? Also downtown Fort Worth is very small. To compare it's leasabilty with Dallas or Houston is absurd. I do find the downtown charming, but Fort Worth has got to have the worst skyline of any large city in the country. It looks like a bomb hit it.

It's bad, admittedly... but it's not THAT bad. I personally think the worst skyline award would have to go to El Paso, San Antonio, or Phoenix... SA and PHX are bigger cities than FW with smaller skylines.

[HarryMoto]

It's bad, admittedly... but it's not THAT bad. I personally think the worst skyline award would have to go to El Paso, San Antonio, or Phoenix... SA and PHX are bigger cities than FW with smaller skylines.

I like Albuquerque but you can add it to the list of no-skyline cities too.

[troyboy]

San Antonio's skyline doesn't seem very dense, but it has much better buildings than Fort Worth, not all big bland boxes.

[North Texas Native]

Doesn't downtown Fort Worth have like only 4 or 5 class A speculative towers? All under 40 stories?? The same 4 or five since the mid 80's? Also downtown Fort Worth is very small. To compare it's leasabilty with Dallas or Houston is absurd. I do find the downtown charming, but Fort Worth has got to have the worst skyline of any large city in the country. It looks like a bomb hit it.

troy your right! I have said in other forums Dallas does not have a bad side. But does have a best side. That being west looking east showing the 72 story now called Chase tower and Reunion tower. But im not a big fan of Reunion Tower.

Back to Fort Worth . Most thier do agree the skyline is sad looking from most views. The best view of DT Forth Worth is North of Downtown looking south. And from the Hill on the Museum District witch is west of Fort Worth looking east. Fort Worth is bleesed with hills and not flat as most points east

There are only 4 Class a Buildings. And one Condo Tower that was a class A building before the March 28.2000 tornado. That are about same height give or take about 40 stories. There are many mose Class A buildings but no way near 40 stories.

The Trinity River Vision seems very well in making Downtown Fort Worth far more Bigger. Thier are already major develpment taking place even before one shoval full of dirt has been turned. I. E. Radio Shack and Pier One HQ.

[troyboy]

Oh, I hate Reunion Tower too. We use to call it Dallas' penis. But you are right, the best view of DTFW is that southern view from I-35. I don't believe FW ever established itself as a big corporate/business city. Which is why tall buildings just don't seem to get built there. The Pier One Building is okay, but what Radioshack did is horribly disappointing and contributes nothing to the skyline.

[Willy1]

Oh, I hate Reunion Tower too. We use to call it Dallas' penis. But you are right, the best view of DTFW is that southern view from I-35. I don't believe FW ever established itself as a big corporate/business city. Which is why tall buildings just don't seem to get built there. The Pier One Building is okay, but what Radioshack did is horribly disappointing and contributes nothing to the skyline.

A lot of people in FW were disappointed by Radio Shack's decision to build a suburban campus in DT FW. Peir 1 has good design elements to it, but it's too short. FW is a bit of a mind-boggle to me. I don't know how a city gets to be the size of San Antonio or FW without building a more impressive skyline. I think FW being so close to Dallas has hurt the FW skyline. Dallas is just more pro-active and aggressive when it comes to building on spec. FW is much more hesitant to build new buildings for some reason. I think FW is going to have to attract some big companies to downtown before anything tall will be built again...

I just checked on Skyscraperpage.com. SA only has one building (Tower of Americas) that is taller than anything in FW... If you rank the two cities SA has the tallest with the TOA Tower, then the next 5 tallest buildings are all in FW... soon to be 6 once the Omni Hotel in DT FW goes up. And, if the Block TU project does get built (doubtful) then it will be considerably taller than the TOA Tower in SA...

Anyway, hopefully FW's insane growth rate will bring new buisnesses to DT and with hit, new buildings.... The Trinity River Project is going to double the foot print of DT FW - literally. Most people believe that the TRV project will attract both new businesses, more residential high rises and eventually more skyscrapers in FW... Only time will tell.

[North Texas Native]

Oh, I hate Reunion Tower too. We use to call it Dallas' penis. But you are right, the best view of DTFW is that southern view from I-35. I don't believe FW ever established itself as a big corporate/business city. Which is why tall buildings just don't seem to get built there. The Pier One Building is okay, but what Radioshack did is horribly disappointing and contributes nothing to the skyline.

Wow ! I was not going to say that P word. But yea I heard that word said about Reunion for many years! To me it looks more like a giant afro. But I love the Chase Tower the tallest in Dallas . Its very hadsome. It was to be a twin tower at one point. Southern view of Fort Worth is second best IMO. I was refering to the north view looking south is the best view of Fort Worth! From Airport freeway Fort Worth looks like it has only 3 skyscapers. That by far is the worst View of Fort Worth.

Willy1 are you certain about San Antonio? In the Dallas Business Journal. Burnnet Plaza is the tallest in Fort Worth and even says its the tallest building between Dallas and L. A. That said it looks like Austin will take that moniker in about a year.

[JasonDFW]

But I love the Chase Tower the tallest in Dallas .

Chase is the 4th (or 3rd if depending on how you judge height) tallest in Dallas. I prefer the Bank One tower myself (photos below).

And to Willy on "I don't know how a city gets to be the size of San Antonio or FW without building a more impressive skyline."

A few ways. You get to the population with recent growth, which has a double whammy effect that the growth hasn't had time to sink in, and is occuring at a time when suburban campuses are a big thing.

If Fort Worth had 1/2 million people back in 1940, it'd have a much bigger skyline like the (currently) smaller Minneapolis does. It also helps that Minneapolis is the center of the metro area whereas in DFW downtown Dallas and Las Colinas are the big job centers.

Jason

[Willy1]

Wow ! I was not going to say that P word. But yea I heard that word said about Reunion for many years! To me it looks more like a giant afro. But I love the Chase Tower the tallest in Dallas . Its very hadsome. It was to be a twin tower at one point. Southern view of Fort Worth is second best IMO. I was refering to the north view looking south is the best view of Fort Worth! From Airport freeway Fort Worth looks like it has only 3 skyscapers. That by far is the worst View of Fort Worth.

Willy1 are you certain about San Antonio? In the Dallas Business Journal. Burnnet Plaza is the tallest in Fort Worth and even says its the tallest building between Dallas and L. A. That said it looks like Austin will take that moniker in about a year.

Just an FYI - the tallest buildng in Dallas (the one with green neon) is not the Chase Tower. It is the Bank of American Tower. Chase Tower is on the other end of downtown. There are actually two Chase Towers now that Bank One is now Chase. The old Bank One Tower is the 2nd or 3rd Tallest, and the other Chase tower is the one with the hole in the rounded top.

[MidtownCoog]

There was some real bad blood from Dallas for a while towards Houston.

I was young. UH won the Southwest Conference in football and was headed to the Cotton Bowl.

The Cotton Bowl Commish at the time said "great, UH and Houston folk will come here and rob and eat at 7-11s" or something to that affect.

Nice. Maybe someone else can remember the exact quote.

[Willy1]

Wow ! I was not going to say that P word. But yea I heard that word said about Reunion for many years! To me it looks more like a giant afro. But I love the Chase Tower the tallest in Dallas . Its very hadsome. It was to be a twin tower at one point. Southern view of Fort Worth is second best IMO. I was refering to the north view looking south is the best view of Fort Worth! From Airport freeway Fort Worth looks like it has only 3 skyscapers. That by far is the worst View of Fort Worth.

Willy1 are you certain about San Antonio? In the Dallas Business Journal. Burnnet Plaza is the tallest in Fort Worth and even says its the tallest building between Dallas and L. A. That said it looks like Austin will take that moniker in about a year.

Burnett Plaza is not the tallest building between Dallas and LA.... Las Vegas actually has the Stratosphere Tower which iss 1149 ft tall. Tower of the Americas is 622 ft tall to the roof and over 700 ft tall to the point. The Space Needle is 605 ft tall. Other than that there are probably 20 other buildings - not just towers - that are also taller than Burnett Plaza in cities such as Vegas, San Fran, Seattle, etc. If you draw a straight line from Dallas to LA, then yes, Burnett might be the tallest building between the two cities... but that's not very impressive...

There was some real bad blood from Dallas for a while towards Houston.

I was young. UH won the Southwest Conference in football and was headed to the Cotton Bowl.

The Cotton Bowl Commish at the time said "great, UH and Houston folk will come here and rob and eat at 7-11s" or something to that affect.

Nice. Maybe someone else can remember the exact quote.

I don't remember anything like that happening - not that it didn't. But, it seems like an really minor thing being said by ONE person.... I seriously doubt that the words of one person are enough to insight some sort of "realy bad blood" between to huge cities... And, with all respect, what does that have to do with this thread anyway?

[MidtownCoog]

what does that have to do with this thread anyway?

Read the threads in the provided link in the initial post:

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum...p?showtopic=698

The link that you started and people replied to. Sheesh.

[Willy1]

Read the threads in the provided link in the initial post:

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum...p?showtopic=698

The link that you started and people replied to. Sheesh.

Oh, you mean the thread I started in March of 2005 - in a completely different city's online architecture forum!! Well, forgive me for not making the connection between THAT thread in THAT forum from early 2005. Sheesh!

So here we are, in THIS thread on THIS forum in THIS year, discussing which skyline sucks more - Fort Worth's or San Antonio's... How could I have not seen how that ties to my march 2005 thread about Houston's love for Dallas-bashing. I mean come on, it's so obvious that conversations about San Antonio and Fort Worth's skylines can only mean one thing - that Houston Rocks and Dallas sucks! Sorry about that - my bad! I'm so embarassed for not seeing that.

Oh, by the way, I also started a thread on SPCA.com back in 1997 about how much I love puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe now would be a good time for you to give us some quotes from "that guy" who worked at the Dallas SPCS back in '84 and how he started some real bad blood between Dallas and Houston by saying something about how the puppy dogs in Houston stink more than the puppy dogs in Dallas and how the puppies in Dallas are always trying to compare themselves to the puppies in Paris and New York, which is just ANOTHER example of how Dallas is always trying to compare itself to international cities. Actually, that is a very good point. So, you know what? After work today I'm going to go right down the street to the Dallas SPCA and adopt all the puppies, then I'm going to go have them all put to sleep so that no one ever has to be subjected to another snobby, thirty-thousand-scoobysnack-a-year, Dalla-poodle ever, ever again.

But, as I was saying... there are many buildings West of Fort Worth that are taller than the Burnett Plaza, including The Tower of Americas in San Antonio.

[MidtownCoog]

This thread is like arguing who has the smallest wang.

[Willy1]

This thread is like arguing who has the smallest wang.

LMAO

[TxDave]

The Dallas/Houston thing needs to end!

From my personal experience, when I originally moved to Texas (Houston), I had no experience with Dallas at all, aside from the TV show. While I lived in Houston, I was conditioned to dislike Dallas (and I did!!!). When my friends would say Dallas was fun, I would immediately challenge them - my "hometown Houston pride" made me!

After a stint in Austin and career changes I ended up in Dallas. I realized that Dallas wasn't the "horrible" place I had understood it to be. Although there is some truth about the pretentious Dallas attitude, it is not nearly as widespread as predicted (if it was I would NOT stay in Dallas).

I also learned that the claim is true: People in Dallas do not spend nearly as much time concerned about Houston as people in Houston do about Dallas. I honestly do agree with the assumption that Houston has some kind of a "civic insecurity" that it needs to get over! Houston is a great city that can stand very prominently on its own!

Any Dallas/Houston comparison should be cooperative and based on what they can learn from each other. Especially as the world grows continually smaller, what is good for one city will be good for its regional neighbor. (Perhaps similar to current unexpected compromises between Dallas and Fort Worth).

[North Texas Native]

The Dallas/Houston thing needs to end!

From my personal experience, when I originally moved to Texas (Houston), I had no experience with Dallas at all, aside from the TV show. While I lived in Houston, I was conditioned to dislike Dallas (and I did!!!). When my friends would say Dallas was fun, I would immediately challenge them - my "hometown Houston pride" made me!

After a stint in Austin and career changes I ended up in Dallas. I realized that Dallas wasn't the "horrible" place I had understood it to be. Although there is some truth about the pretentious Dallas attitude, it is not nearly as widespread as predicted (if it was I would NOT stay in Dallas).

I also learned that the claim is true: People in Dallas do not spend nearly as much time concerned about Houston as people in Houston do about Dallas. I honestly do agree with the assumption that Houston has some kind of a "civic insecurity" that it needs to get over! Houston is a great city that can stand very prominently on its own!

Any Dallas/Houston comparison should be cooperative and based on what they can learn from each other. Especially as the world grows continually smaller, what is good for one city will be good for its regional neighbor. (Perhaps similar to current unexpected compromises between Dallas and Fort Worth).

Yea Dallas don't spend time concerned about Houston. It spends it's time Bashing Fort Worth and the burbs north of Dallas. You should read Dallas forum what they write about non-Dallas folks. Down right ugly. even other Dallasites bashing other Dallasits in the same forum.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Yea Dallas don't spend time concerned about Houston.

I don't usually get into all of this bickering but I wish you folks from the Metroplex who post here would stop saying this. It's not true. It just isn't. Both cities have plenty of people who seem obsessed by all of this.

OTOH, you have some really classy people in both cities who can look beyond the supposed "friendly" rivalry and commend each locale for their contributions.

I can't speak to the Dallas-Fort Worth feud, but I imagine that deep down each side knows that their relative success is dependent in many ways on the other.

At least, you would think...

[tcole]

I don't usually get into all of this bickering but I wish you folks from the Metroplex who post here would stop saying this. It's not true. It just isn't. Both cities have plenty of people who seem obsessed by all of this.

OTOH, you have some really classy people in both cities who can look beyond the supposed "friendly" rivalry and commend each locale for their contributions.

I can't speak to the Dallas-Fort Worth feud, but I imagine that deep down each side knows that their relative success is dependent in many ways on the other.

At least, you would think...

Some good points. But do not for a moment think that people in FW join in the Metroplex (It is actually Dallas) vs. Houston rivalry. Quite the contrary, most in Fort Worth look to Houston as a much larger cousin that shares a good number of similarities, both good and bad.

[RedScare]

Some good points. But do not for a moment think that people in FW join in the Metroplex (It is actually Dallas) vs. Houston rivalry. Quite the contrary, most in Fort Worth look to Houston as a much larger cousin that shares a good number of similarities, both good and bad.

Agreed...at least when I lived there. And, let's not kid ourselves. Fort Worth and Dallas' interdependence doesn't lessen the annoyance Fort Worthians feel toward the slights, real and imagined, by its eastern neighbor and rival.

[North Texas Native]

Agreed...at least when I lived there. And, let's not kid ourselves. Fort Worth and Dallas' interdependence doesn't lessen the annoyance Fort Worthians feel toward the slights, real and imagined, by its eastern neighbor and rival.

Yet I also agree. But if I am wrong About the Dallas forum why don't you all read it yourself. For example Fort Worth has one of the top zoo's in America. Someone mentioned it . And the Zoo and the City gets bashed without one Fort Worth guy even thier to talk about it. I mean its down right ugly what they say about other cities. This Aceplace and Bloodandpopcorn fellow are the soup-nazi of Jerry Sienfeld. Just radical Dallas-Nazi.

It's full of anti-other-than-Dallas feelings. It sickens me to have grown up in Dallas to see that kind of rant.

[troyboy]

You're right the Dallas forum can get ugly sometimes in regards to other cities. But I must disagree with it's attitutude about FW. It seems the people on the FW fourm (I visit it ocassionly) bash Dallas alot more than Dallas bashes FW. Dallasites seems to mention FW in passing and if something is posted about FW, it's discussed briefly and everyone moves on. I think Dallasites think FW is not in the "big" city league ( to which I somewhat agree). FW has done some decent things downtown, but it has no skyline and it's lagging behind other cities in terms of urban development. Dallas forum members seem much more concerned with Houston, Austin, Atlanta, Chicago, L.A. etc. Cities they feel Dallas is in more "competition" (can't think of a better word) with.

[troyboy]

It's bad, admittedly... but it's not THAT bad. I personally think the worst skyline award would have to go to El Paso, San Antonio, or Phoenix... SA and PHX are bigger cities than FW with smaller skylines.

As far as cities with a population over 500,000 go, FW's skyline is horrible and one of the smallest. I've always found it butt ugly and although I don't visit the city often, I've always thought I would hate to look at that everyday. Phoenix's skyline is pretty bad, but I don't mind San Antonio's and I think between SA and FW, you'll probably see SA's skyline start to change and evolve. It seem's FW has some impotency issues, as it seems to have a problem getting anything of noticable size and height erected.

[kenc]

Oh, you mean the thread I started in March of 2005 - in a completely different city's online architecture forum!! Well, forgive me for not making the connection between THAT thread in THAT forum from early 2005. Sheesh!

So here we are, in THIS thread on THIS forum in THIS year, discussing which skyline sucks more - Fort Worth's or San Antonio's... How could I have not seen how that ties to my march 2005 thread about Houston's love for Dallas-bashing. I mean come on, it's so obvious that conversations about San Antonio and Fort Worth's skylines can only mean one thing - that Houston Rocks and Dallas sucks! Sorry about that - my bad! I'm so embarassed for not seeing that.

Oh, by the way, I also started a thread on SPCA.com back in 1997 about how much I love puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe now would be a good time for you to give us some quotes from "that guy" who worked at the Dallas SPCS back in '84 and how he started some real bad blood between Dallas and Houston by saying something about how the puppy dogs in Houston stink more than the puppy dogs in Dallas and how the puppies in Dallas are always trying to compare themselves to the puppies in Paris and New York, which is just ANOTHER example of how Dallas is always trying to compare itself to international cities. Actually, that is a very good point. So, you know what? After work today I'm going to go right down the street to the Dallas SPCA and adopt all the puppies, then I'm going to go have them all put to sleep so that no one ever has to be subjected to another snobby, thirty-thousand-scoobysnack-a-year, Dalla-poodle ever, ever again.

But, as I was saying... there are many buildings West of Fort Worth that are taller than the Burnett Plaza, including The Tower of Americas in San Antonio.

You needs to see a doctor...quick.

[scarface]

I wish you folks from the Metroplex who post here would stop saying this. It's not true. It just isn't. Both cities have plenty of people who seem obsessed by all of this.

i definitely agree with The Great Hizzy. That's bull when people say that people in Dallas don't spend their times worrying about Houston. My experience in my whole life living in this city, people in Houston always kept to themselves. We do our thing down here and Dallas does their thing up there. Houston's no more worried about Dallas anymore than Dallas is worried about Houston... believe me

To say that Dallas isn't concerned about Houston is bogus. People in Dallas look at things in Houston to learn from things and vice-versa.

If truth be told, i think people in Dallas really do watch Houston enough to write a columns in their newspapers entitled: "That Sinking Feeling: When Houston's Gone, Will Anyone Miss It?" (here's the link if u don't remember) http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showpost...8&postcount=166 .

Or how about naming Houston the Texan of the year? Or how about all Dallas's sports officials who are jealous of never hosting a superbowl when Houston's hosted 2? I think Dallas often tries to outdo Houston but when its all said and done, Dallas and Houston are 2 different worlds.