samagon Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It seems that there's a need, if this is better served in another forum please feel free to move, but general questions on how to shoot (from framing a shot, to lighting, to what do all those numbers mean, even post processing stuff), and what equipment you prefer should be discussed here... We got to talking about cameras and photographs in one of the lightrail topics, and well, someone asked for a better explanation of Fstop, shutter speed, ISO, all that junk, so I'll provide my best explanation (granting I never took a class)... I refer to 'film' to represent real film (of whatever variety), or photosensors used on digital cameras. Aperture, Shutterspeed, and ISO are all used to determine the exposure of the shot. ShutterSpeed is how long the film is going to be exposed for. 1/125th of a second, 1/250th of a second. It's a standardized scale that doubles/halves the exposure time. of the two listed, the 1/250th exposure is going to have the film exposed for half as long as with the 1/125th. it's easier to think of it in longer exposure times, 1 second exposure, vs 2 second, or 4 second. Aperture is how big the hole is that lets light onto the film. The numbering is weird, but again, you're looking at double/halving the size of the hole. effectively doubling/halving the amount of light that's let in. F2.8, F4, F5.6, believe it or not, but those are double/half. the lower the number, the bigger the hole. for a 35mm format lens, the lowest aperture you're likely to see is 1.4, that's because the lens would be humongous (and pricey) compared to the body. Medium format, and other cameras may have lower apertures, but I don't know anything about it. So at this point, not bringing ISO into the picture, if you take a picture at 1/250 and F2.8 it will have the same exposure as a picture at 1/125 and F4. What's the difference? you may ask... well, shutter speed is easier to explain, the faster the shutterspeed, you'll get less blur. imagine seeing a picture of a waterfall, where the water is blurry, you can't see a single drop, that's done by having a longer exposure, slower shutterspeed. faster shutter speed and you may actually be able to see individual drops. depending on what you're trying to do, is going to call for doing it differently. aperture is very easy to see, it's called bokeh and basically the lower the aperture the more bokeh you get, it's best explained by seeing a person in the foreground who is is sharp focus, and then the background is really blurry. depth of field (DOF). again, it really depends on the goals, but if you want to have a person and the background be in focus, you'd use F16, or F11, if you want to have the person focused, and blurry BG, F2.8 or lower. distance from your focal point makes a huge difference here, and there's lots of maths. but that's basically about it ISO the last piece of the exposure puzzle. lets say it's darkish, you want to have a long depth of field, and no blurry tail lights on cars to distract, so you have to have a high F number, and a fast shutter speed. but, if you were to just set F11, and 1/125th second SS, and it's beyond dusk, you won't see anything once the image is processed. ISO is the 'speed of the film' again, it's half/double ISO 50, ISO 100, ISO 200 (my dad tells me there used to be ISO 25 film). ISO 100 requires half as much exposure as ISO 50 film. So, in the example of F11 and 1/125th at dusk could be achievable with say ISO 800, or ISO1600. although, with higher ISO, you introduce more grain. so your ISO 1600 shot will be really grainy compared to ISO 100, and may even ruin the effect you were trying to produce with your shutter/Fstop combo. The old basic rule of thumb for exposure is the "sunny F16" rule. basically, on a sunny day, you'll want F16, 1/100th shutter and ISO 100. I'm sure I muddled some things up, or didn't explain as best as I could, but hopefully someone else can correct me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 Myself, I shoot with Olympus cameras and lenses. They have a reputation for having damn nice lenses (all the way back to their OM days), and I haven't been disappointed yet. and from what I've heard, their auto focus is one of the fastest available. I recently upgraded my body to the E620. Lenses I have are a 7-14mm F4, a 14-54mm F2.8-F3.5, and a 30mm F1.8 (sigma). If I were just getting into a DSLR, I'd still make the choice I did, I really am pleased with the quality of the images right out of the camera, and really love the 7-14mm lens, it's huge and ugly, but damn does it allow me to take some really neat shots! I've also got one a point and shoot that is shock proof and water proof, I got it primarily for a trip to the Philippines during monsoon season and 3 years later it's seen plenty of water and shock, and well it is a very reliable little run around camera The P&S is an Olympus Tough, here's a few from the Philippines: It's hard to tell, but those houses are all (very permanent) squatters. Plus a standard Jeepney and Trike.. I was in the rice country, and the above is someone's actual 1 bedroom house.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brijonmang Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Great idea, Samagon. I find myself always wondering what kind of equipment people are using for their photography on the web but don't want to be the noob asking questions.If only I could afford a new "real" camera... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I would say Samagon's explantion is spot on... but for those that need visual aids.... It's all a balancing act. For any given light situation you may encounter, there is one ideal solution, 0. Once you determine what that ideal solution is (with your in-camera metering).. you can change any one of the variables as long as you then balance it by going the opposite direction with one of the other 2. For most cameras, ISO is the most limiting becasue nobody like noise in their photos, So you can set it as low as possible in extreme light situations, and as high as your camera will allow you to get away with(before the noise is unbearable) in dark situations, then you just do the balancing act with the other two variables since DOF and shutter speed affect the your photo more so visually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Since we're talkin about exposure.. I'll give a quick HDR summary. See here for examples of one of the leading HDR photographers.The idea is that you need multiple photos at differenxt exposure then you combine them with either photomatrix or PS and it essentially grabs the low tones, middle tones, and high tones out of the indivual photos and combines it into one photo to increase the dynamic range beyond what is possible in only 1 photo.The farther the range, the better the end result. Some cameras like my own will autobracket at +/-1. Better ones will autobracket even farther. So.. if I determined from above that the ideal solution was F16, 1/125, ISO 100. It will also take photos at F16, 1/60, ISO 100 and F16, f/250, ISO 100.If you have the time ( non moving target ) and a tripod... You can do this all manually and get 3 or more exposures to work with.. and you can do a much greater range. For instance, -4, -2, 0, +2, +4, to get the whitests whites and the blackest blacks.One key thing to remember is, if you're doing manually, that eventhough after rebalancing, the exposure might be equal, not all 0 solutions are equal. You do not want to be rebalancing by switching the aperature. You do not want multiple photos with different DOF. Typically you'll want to change the shutter speed to get your other exposures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Great idea, Samagon. I find myself always wondering what kind of equipment people are using for their photography on the web but don't want to be the noob asking questions.If only I could afford a new "real" camera...Be the noob, that's what forums are for... I got my first semi-real camera after consulting with fellow Haifers Jax and WesternGulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Carrying on from rail discussion, this is what I was trying to avoid using an open aperture: While the photo itself is all pretty (ISO400, 22Aperture, 25sec), the starring effect of the lights got on my nerves. I took this with my 17-50mm kit lens that my camera came with (stats on a later post). been meaning to go back up with my newer lens and a shorter exposure time. Compare it with this: Notice the lack of starring because of the different settings. (ISO1600, 2.8, 1/25th 28mm) This was a quick snap and shoot and only had about 10 seconds to set it up. Considering the area (dowling at polk), I wasn't too interested in setting up for a longer exposure, but I was quite happy with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Since we're giving rig setups:I'm running on a Sony SLT55. My "standard" lens is a Minolta 28 2.8, which I always use at night.My daytime lens is the 70-200mm, but only if I have something in mind to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 lol Ricco, I think I see myself taking my photo from the other side of 45 in your photo! :-pas with anything in photography, it's all preference really and what works best for the particular shot, the open aperture gives a softer shot, which really works well in the second scene, which is actually at Leeland/Dowling ;-) I'd have been afraid to even pull my camera out of the car at that intersection at night, but that's just me being paranoid I'm sure.I think the blue lights under the freeway are what distracts me from seeing the rest of your shot with the higher fstop, more than the starring, either way, I think it's a fantastic location you found for a very unique perspective that people don't normally photograph!I assume you shot that from the top of the Hobby center parking garage? How hard is it to get up there at night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You are correct as far as the location goes. I didn't bother looking at street signs.As far as the hobby center garage goes, I just drive up there at about midnight and started up there for a total of about ten minutes.Believe me, it was one of the longest ten minutes of my life.after this shot, I learned abut more about F stops and such a purchased my 28mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 What are some good photography forums/clubs/organizations in Houston? Would be interesting to join some? Any of you active in any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I was involved in a few photographic forums and they all seem to suffer from "Your photo sucks because.." syndrome.They are particularly harsh at the noobs for some reason to the point I just stopped going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 http://timescapes.org/ Has a great forum and lots of user submissions if you're interested in Timelapse photography.Lots of sticky threads for beginnners as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I was involved in a few photographic forums and they all seem to suffer from "Your photo sucks because.." syndrome.They are particularly harsh at the noobs for some reason to the point I just stopped going.Interesting. What about organizations around town?Btw, does anyone know of a good tripod for their high end P&S cameras? I was looking into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 For local stuff, I'd recommend asking in Houston Camera Exchange, or going by the Houston Center for Photography. I'd expect that they both have a large enough Rolodex to recommend something for your particular wants. Tripods, I'd again recommend HCE, IMO in a tripod you want something heavy and sturdy, unfortunately the trend in tripods over the past 20 or so years is to go lighter and flimsier. I imagine with a P&S you probably don't want to spend as much on a tripod as you spent on your camera. The issues you'll face with a cheapo tripod are the same regardless of the kind of camera, in that a lighter and flimsier tripod will move when you don't want it to, being that the purpose of a tripod is to keep the camera steady for longer exposure times, you can see where this is a cross purpose I know a lot of people who don't want to get the higher priced ones will go out and get a sandbag, or something else heavy to use as a weight on the tripod to help add stability through weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 For local stuff, I'd recommend asking in Houston Camera Exchange, or going by the Houston Center for Photography. I'd expect that they both have a large enough Rolodex to recommend something for your particular wants. Tripods, I'd again recommend HCE, IMO in a tripod you want something heavy and sturdy, unfortunately the trend in tripods over the past 20 or so years is to go lighter and flimsier. I imagine with a P&S you probably don't want to spend as much on a tripod as you spent on your camera. The issues you'll face with a cheapo tripod are the same regardless of the kind of camera, in that a lighter and flimsier tripod will move when you don't want it to, being that the purpose of a tripod is to keep the camera steady for longer exposure times, you can see where this is a cross purpose I know a lot of people who don't want to get the higher priced ones will go out and get a sandbag, or something else heavy to use as a weight on the tripod to help add stability through weight. When I first purchased my camera, I got a cheap tripod (20?) and regretted it, particularly with this picture: (ISO100, f4, 10sec, 85mm) it was a bit windy and I could feel my tripod moving. I was hoping to blow up this pic and frame it, but no. Which reminds me, I need to go back and try this shot again. I went out the next day and purchased a studier one from Camera Exchange (90?) and it was awesome. I'd recommend you get one with a quick release for quick shoot and scoots. I tried pixtus.com and a few others, but I was less then pleased with the treatment on newbies on asking questions and feedback on how to make the photos better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Great idea, Samagon. I find myself always wondering what kind of equipment people are using for their photography on the web but don't want to be the noob asking questions.you can always look at the exif data for pictures and see what camera was used, the aperture, shutter speed, focal length, ISO, etc. Picasa lets you do this, and their are ad-ons in browsers that do it as well.i had been playing around with all the manual settings as much as i could for several years and I finally pulled the trigger and and got a DSLR last fall. been loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 I know there are options when saving files for web use from most photo editing software to 'preserve exif data'.oh yeah, forgot to add what IMO is the best review site, www.DPReview.com has really (Really, REALLY!!) thorough camera reviews.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 agree with dpreview, great site for camera comparisons and reviews.also want to throw a site for really thorough lens reviews (canon and nikon):http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway6 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Ricco.. you wanna share what Montrose location got you that skyline angle by any chance ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifuwong Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 If anyone is interested, the Panasonic LX5 point and shoot is on sale at Amazon for $279.48. You get the $75 gift card when you buy the camera, so just subtract the cost of camera with it, thus the $279 price. Just remember, you get free shipping and pay no tax.Samagon,What was the location in your first pic of the highway and city skyline?Ricco,What was your location for the Houston skyline?Btw, my Uncle gave me his tripod today after i asked him on which one to buy. Thanks everyone. Good tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Mine was taken from the Sabine street bridge. You can also go a bit farther back to the first parking area off of Allen pkwy and get it pretty good as well, if you don't have a really wide angle lens. skwarta, this is probably a great resource for people who want to buy either Canon or Nikon but can't figure out which is what they should choose, but they don't review any other lenses that don't fit those systems. Either way, more resources for review before you make a jump into a DSLR is very important. you may only need to spend $350-$500 for a decent kit to start, but then when you want to buy additional lenses, realistically as a hobby, photography is expensive, and it's best to do as much research to figure out where you should go with it, so you don't waste money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Ricco.. you wanna share what Montrose location got you that skyline angle by any chance ??? I did a little fast talking and got some security to allow me to take pictures from the top of the garage at Kirby. I did it using my 70-300 lens and it was my first attempt at such a shoot, but I made some fairly critical errors as a newbie. The first was the crappy tripod, but also I neglected to turn off the image stabilizer. The flare you see off to the right was a refinery that JUST started as I clicked the shutter. Mine was taken from the Sabine street bridge. You can also go a bit farther back to the first parking area off of Allen pkwy and get it pretty good as well, if you don't have a really wide angle lens. skwarta, this is probably a great resource for people who want to buy either Canon or Nikon but can't figure out which is what they should choose, but they don't review any other lenses that don't fit those systems. Either way, more resources for review before you make a jump into a DSLR is very important. you may only need to spend $350-$500 for a decent kit to start, but then when you want to buy additional lenses, realistically as a hobby, photography is expensive, and it's best to do as much research to figure out where you should go with it, so you don't waste money. Plus also remember, that Nikon and Canons aren't the only cameras out there. For me, Sony is the perfect camera that had the most features in a reasonable budget. Photography IS a bit of an expensive hobby, (I got about $2k in filters, lenses, bags, etc) but it can be a very relaxing hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Mine was taken from the Sabine street bridge. You can also go a bit farther back to the first parking area off of Allen pkwy and get it pretty good as well, if you don't have a really wide angle lens.skwarta, this is probably a great resource for people who want to buy either Canon or Nikon but can't figure out which is what they should choose, but they don't review any other lenses that don't fit those systems.Right, i noted that it was for Canon and Nikon lenses only. I agree there are a lot of other options out there, but even if you are looking at other mfrs its a great site with in depth reviews that are worth reading to understand what you should be looking for in a lens.And for that shot from Sabine you need a pretty wide lens! I need to get out to the new ped bridges by Montrose and Allen Parkway to get some shots from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Right, i noted that it was for Canon and Nikon lenses only. I agree there are a lot of other options out there, but even if you are looking at other mfrs its a great site with in depth reviews that are worth reading to understand what you should be looking for in a lens. And for that shot from Sabine you need a pretty wide lens! I need to get out to the new ped bridges by Montrose and Allen Parkway to get some shots from there. I had missed your caveat to the website, and I agree, the more info you start with the better off you are! I shot that with a very wide angle lens, 7-14mm i think it was set at 10mm for that shot. That lens is the main reason i bought into the Olympus cameras. Since the sensor is so small compared to a standard 35mm film negative, it's effectively a 14-28mm, but I'm sold that it's the best wide angle lens available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I thought this was aweseme:"The f/stop controls how much we see and don't see in the background. F/3.5 means only "three things" will be in focus. F/22 means "22 things" will be in focus. (Not really but I'm using that as a visual cue to help you remember the concept.)"-Kathy Adams Clarkhttp://kathyadamsclark.blogspot.com/2012/03/lens-how-to-blur-background.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It seems like an easy thing to remember, but for some reason, I can't seem to get the full grasp of "DOF" and I think I fail miserably at it.Recently, I just purchased a 50mm 1.7 and I'm thrilled about the potential of getting some awesome night shots. Does this mean I can get only one thing in focus? I'll try to find an example a bit later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 i am by no means an expert, i spent a lot of times reading different reviews on lenses (which give tips and examples) and tutorials. unfortunately i can't find my favorite ones, but I'll search more later.simple answer to your question is no, you can compensate with the shutter speed. though you'll have issues if there is motion. If you have a DSLR, I would just go play around with it. I have a similar lens and love trying out different things at night. The Tolerance sculptures on allen parkway and montrose are a pretty good setting lit up at night, and you can go to the bridge and get good downtown shots as well. you should have different modes that allow you to change the Aperture (Av or something like that), Exposure (Tv) and full time manual. If you set your aperture in Av, you can let the camera pick the right shutter speed and take a mental note (push the shutter button halfway and it should tell you the settings if you want to quickly step through things, or click away and you can look at display in review mode, or the exif data later). You can go to Tv and play with shutter speeds and see what Aperture stops it sets. After playing with that, you'll get an idea of the possibilities (this is the camera making decisions based on the amount of light, etc). Then as you get used to those settings you can start playing with fill time manual and adjusting both settings yourself. You'll probably get in to situations where the camera won't let you shoot (mine the setting in question will blink) because there's not enough light or it can't focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 you should have different modes that allow you to change the Aperture (Av or something like that), Exposure (Tv) and full time manual. If you set your aperture in Av, you can let the camera pick the right shutter speed and take a mental note (push the shutter button halfway and it should tell you the settings if you want to quickly step through things, or click away and you can look at display in review mode, or the exif data later). You can go to Tv and play with shutter speeds and see what Aperture stops it sets. After playing with that, you'll get an idea of the possibilities (this is the camera making decisions based on the amount of light, etc). Then as you get used to those settings you can start playing with fill time manual and adjusting both settings yourself. You'll probably get in to situations where the camera won't let you shoot (mine the setting in question will blink) because there's not enough light or it can't focus. Aug 10, 2011 ISO: 100 Exposure: 30.0 sec Aperture: 18.0 Focal Length: 18mm This is an example of one of my first attempts at full manual, adjusting the armature, white balance, and focus. There is the "starring" we talked about previously, but I was also using the 17-50mm kit lens. This was me using my new (to me) 28mm 2.8 lens. Note: No starring. ISO: 100 Exposure: 2.0 sec Aperture: 3.5 Focal Length: 28mm The trick I found with not finding someplace to focus on is to simply aim to a viable object to focus, move to your object and shoot. the other is to simply learn how to focus manually, or set the lens to Infinity and you should be able to get decent results. I took an opportunity to sneak a camera into a concert and was able to take good pictures, problem was that I had to really push up the ISO. ISO: 800 Exposure: 1/100 sec Aperture: 2.8 Focal Length: 28mm I am by no means an expert at it, but practice and tips always help. Edit: Just realized I essentially did a double post and already covered this. Good god, how will I be when I get old(er)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 good stuff, looks like you're getting the hang of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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