Transit Oriented Developments

[musicman]

But there is a nagging problem there. Houston's Midtown is seperated by a set of elevated freeways. A long standing belief in Dallas is that elevated freeways divide neighborhoods and stunt growth. Growth is measured in cycles. For a neighborhood to break out of downtown Houston into Midtown only to stagnate during a downtown will add real estate barriors to the elevated freeways as future growth will follow trends that alter plans.

this is starting to sound very familiar from a thread about a yr ago. think he ended up being banned.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

[nucklehead]

this is starting to sound very familiar from a thread about a yr ago. think he ended up being banned.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

Sorry. I meant to say during a downturn.

Example: If the Victory project peters out in Uptown again, it will be the second time it has done so. That is why the design of the bricked American Airline center differs from the rest of the development. The major problem with the Victory project is that it's cut off by freeways from downtown. The area of the Arts District not only has the benefit of having a continuous flow into Uptown but its going to have a park plaza built on top of it as the centerpiece of Central Dallas.

[nucklehead]

this is starting to sound very familiar from a thread about a yr ago. think he ended up being banned.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

Excuse me? Where is the comment about the topic?

My argument was this:

1) The Corridor along 59 between Midtown and Uptown has the best potential to become urban with lots of TODs. It is a viable vacuum.

2) The weakness to Midtown development are the two elevated freeways. I gave an example of the Victory Project of how if it has petered out again as a development, it will be the second time. I also gave the reason of it being cut off from downtown by freeways as a reason for it to struggle during a downturn.

Now. Is there something perverted about talking about burying an elevated freeway? Why would they ban me for talking about "Elevated Freeways"?

[Trae]

Excuse me? Where is the comment about the topic?

My argument was this:

1) The Corridor along 59 between Midtown and Uptown has the best potential to become urban with lots of TODs. It is a viable vacuum.

2) The weakness to Midtown development are the two elevated freeways. I gave an example of the Victory Project of how if it has petered out again as a development, it will be the second time. I also gave the reason of it being cut off from downtown by freeways as a reason for it to struggle during a downturn.

Now. Is there something perverted about talking about burying an elevated freeway? Why would they ban me for talking about "Elevated Freeways"?

WTF?!

[nucklehead]

WTF?!

Excuse me, Trae? I wasn't responding to you. The fellow I responded to was supposing that I got banned for pointing out that Houston needs to deal with its elevated freeways. Thank you.

[Trae]

I know you weren't responding to me. I was just amazed that what he said somehow meant something "perverted" in your eyes.

[nucklehead]

I know you weren't responding to me. I was just amazed that what he said somehow meant something "perverted" in your eyes.

Look, I am bullish on Las Colinas. Not Dallas. I don't even think Las Colinas should be considered as part of the DFW market. It is in a class by itself because when any company moves there it makes sense.

I started this thread here because the huge amount of land aquired to do the TOD south of downtown Dallas is different. I guess one could say it is similar to the Cedars conversion of the huge Sears warehouse into apartments. This project is going to be built on raw land. This is the kinds of development that will be taking place in Las Colinas after the Cowboys leave the area and DART arrives. This will shift the focus of development in DFW from Central Dallas to the area of Las Colinas.

[musicman]

Excuse me? Where is the comment about the topic?

My argument was this:

1) The Corridor along 59 between Midtown and Uptown has the best potential to become urban with lots of TODs. It is a viable vacuum.

2) The weakness to Midtown development are the two elevated freeways. I gave an example of the Victory Project of how if it has petered out again as a development, it will be the second time. I also gave the reason of it being cut off from downtown by freeways as a reason for it to struggle during a downturn.

Now. Is there something perverted about talking about burying an elevated freeway? Why would they ban me for talking about "Elevated Freeways"?

it's called trolling.

your argument is faulty because midtown isn't isolated from downtown. every street in the downtown grid extends into midtown.

[nucklehead]

it's called trolling.

your argument is faulty because midtown isn't isolated from downtown. every street in the downtown grid extends into midtown.

Okay. Your nonsense is to say "it's called trolling."

You should leave that out next time.

You are saying "Your argument is faulty because midtown isn't isolated from downtown. Every street in the downtown grid extends into midtown."

Okay. Live in tellytubbie land with that basic understanding.

There really isn't any way to respond to you without risking having the thread closed or having myself banned. I wish you the best with whatever endeavor you choose in life.

[musicman]

having a discussion won't get the thread closed. however it appears you are unable.

[RedScare]

Okay. Your nonsense is to say "it's called trolling."

You should leave that out next time.

You are saying "Your argument is faulty because midtown isn't isolated from downtown. Every street in the downtown grid extends into midtown."

Okay. Live in tellytubbie land with that basic understanding.

There really isn't any way to respond to you without risking having the thread closed or having myself banned. I wish you the best with whatever endeavor you choose in life.

The problem with your argument is that Midtown has not stagnated like Victory. They are still building and expanding it. The Pierce elevated has not isolated anything. So, once again your premise is WRONG.

THAT is what people are responding to, that you keep making statements that are full of WRONG facts and WRONG conclusions. The fact that you continue to make the statements after being proven WRONG suggests that you are a troll. It has nothing to do with the viability of TODs. It has everything to do with your incorrect statements.

Hoped that helped.

[20thStDad]

Look, I am bullish on Las Colinas. Not Dallas. I don't even think Las Colinas should be considered as part of the DFW market. It is in a class by itself because when any company moves there it makes sense.

I started this thread here because the huge amount of land aquired to do the TOD south of downtown Dallas is different. I guess one could say it is similar to the Cedars conversion of the huge Sears warehouse into apartments. This project is going to be built on raw land. This is the kinds of development that will be taking place in Las Colinas after the Cowboys leave the area and DART arrives. This will shift the focus of development in DFW from Central Dallas to the area of Las Colinas.

Isn't Las Colinas a dry area? At least 8 years ago when my friend lived there it was. Yeah, dry areas are no fun. People need liquor to properly enjoy work or mass transit. I've done hundreds of personal studies that support this.

[nucklehead]

Isn't Las Colinas a dry area? At least 8 years ago when my friend lived there it was. Yeah, dry areas are no fun. People need liquor to properly enjoy work or mass transit. I've done hundreds of personal studies that support this.

Las Colinas is already much more than an office park. The area has the potential to surpass downtown Dallas and Uptown combined in shear office space and residential construction. This next wave of construction so far amounts to 4 billion dollars worth of personal investment in TOD's that is just getting under way.

http://www.dart.org/about/inmotion/spring08/3.htm

The City of Irving and private developers have planned more than $4 billion in transit-oriented development.

The relocations to Las Colinas attract the TODs. The TODs will attract further relocations.

[nucklehead]

The problem with your argument is that Midtown has not stagnated like Victory. They are still building and expanding it. The Pierce elevated has not isolated anything. So, once again your premise is WRONG.

THAT is what people are responding to, that you keep making statements that are full of WRONG facts and WRONG conclusions. The fact that you continue to make the statements after being proven WRONG suggests that you are a troll. It has nothing to do with the viability of TODs. It has everything to do with your incorrect statements.

Hoped that helped.

I see. Well, while Dallas is building a plaza over its freeways in front of its Art District, I guess Houston can just build them under their elevated freeways. Let's see which succeeds the most.

That is something Texas Cities don't have. Plazas. There is a good amount of plaza like stuff off towards the southern part of downtown Dallas around City Hall and the Convention Center where all those bronze longhorns are located. But this plaza is going to be smack dab in the heart of Central Dallas.

I think Houston is wasting its time not sinking its elevated freeways. The city does have a problem with flooding so sinking them and covering them will take a lot of money and work. But, you know, if the city don't want to put in the investment, that investment can always go somewhere else.

[RedScare]

There is a good amount of plaza like stuff off towards the southern part of downtown Dallas around City Hall and the Convention Center where all those bronze longhorns are located.

How are those working out for ya?

[The Great Hizzy!]

Okay, now I'm thinking that one of you jokers is pretending to be "Nucklehead."

Come clean!

[Trae]

I see. Well, while Dallas is building a plaza over its freeways in front of its Art District, I guess Houston can just build them under their elevated freeways. Let's see which succeeds the most.

That is something Texas Cities don't have. Plazas. There is a good amount of plaza like stuff off towards the southern part of downtown Dallas around City Hall and the Convention Center where all those bronze longhorns are located. But this plaza is going to be smack dab in the heart of Central Dallas.

I think Houston is wasting its time not sinking its elevated freeways. The city does have a problem with flooding so sinking them and covering them will take a lot of money and work. But, you know, if the city don't want to put in the investment, that investment can always go somewhere else.

We already have one of those plazas/parks in front of our convention center. It will be completly surrounded by highrises in five years. It has proven to be quite successful.

And if you think what nucklehead is saying here is bad, go check him out at Dallas Metropolis. He has that whole site believing Dallas/Irving/DFW Airport, will steal most of Houston's oil companies and Continental Airlines because "they are not smart to be away from the big North American magnet". Something like that.

[Gary]

Hey guys, let's not respond to this bozo. Maybe he'll go away.

[tamtagon]

Look, I am bullish on Las Colinas. Not Dallas. I don't even think Las Colinas should be considered as part of the DFW market. It is in a class by itself because when any company moves there it makes sense.

That's a real nifty point of view, mister.

[nucklehead]

That's a real nifty point of view, mister.

Thanks. I guess you must agree then that a transition is taking place between Central Dallas and Las Colinas then? I do think the development that was happening in the whole of Uptown north of Downtown is about to be focussed in and around the Arts District area in the future as a result of the opening of its next phase. This will be followed by the building of the park plaza as its fronting certerpiece over the freeway at the heart of Central Dallas. I really do think the Victory and Harwood projects are in trouble as a result of what will be a focus on the premium area of the Arts District while Las Colinas also begins to ramp up construction of its TODs. TODs attract relocations. Relocations attract more TODs.

I also think every political firestorm that happens in Central Dallas sends investors to "the hills" -- de Las Colinas!

It amazes me how little people in Houston know. Most in here think Central Dallas is the epitome of DFW while, even when taking in the current expansion of development happening there, the only business markets to expand over the last 20 years in DFW are the ones outside of downtown Dallas and Fort Worth. What Uptown has gained recently in office space, Downtown has lost even more so over the years through office conversions into that of a hotel, in one case, and into that of housing of some sort in the other cases.

The building of the housing in Central Dallas is impressive but that only amounts to a trendy fashion statement that can easily find reason to move away during the next development phase of new fashion trends.

[Trae]

Nucklehead, do you not know why tamtagon said that? Ahem..."Mister Nifty" from DM.

[nucklehead]

We already have one of those plazas/parks in front of our convention center. It will be completly surrounded by highrises in five years. It has proven to be quite successful.

And if you think what nucklehead is saying here is bad, go check him out at Dallas Metropolis. He has that whole site believing Dallas/Irving/DFW Airport, will steal most of Houston's oil companies and Continental Airlines because "they are not smart to be away from the big North American magnet". Something like that.

No. I said Exxon is based in Houston while its global headquarters is based in Las Colinas. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of the global operations of the oil companies in Houston chose to base their global operations in Las Colinas for the same reason. DFW IS the big magnet of North America because Las Colinas is becoming the premier business district in North America.

In the DFW metroplex, the pull towards DFW and Las Colinas is undeniable as it is a constant threat to get relocations from the other business districts. Any company in any industry could decide to relocate from the Metroplex to Las Colinas and it wouldn't be a shock to anyone. It always makes sense to relocate to Las Colinas. All the other business districts in DFW need gimmicks or subsidies just to compete.

Atlanta's airport, for example, doesn't have a pocket Hercules like Las Colinas built next to it. Atlanta just has a lot of flights and passengers flying in and out. The development that DFW airport has helped establish in and around its immediate area is far more significant than the numbers of flights and passengers that Atlanta's airport handles on a daily bases.

[Gary]

No. I said Exxon is based in Houston while its global headquarters is based in Las Colinas. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of the global operations of the oil companies in Houston chose to base their global operations in Las Colinas for the same reason. DFW IS the big magnet of North America because Las Colinas is becoming the premier business district in North America.

In the DFW metroplex, the pull towards DFW and Las Colinas is undeniable as it is a constant threat to get relocations from the other business districts. Any company in any industry could decide to relocate from the Metroplex to Las Colinas and it wouldn't be a shock to anyone. It always makes sense to relocate to Las Colinas. All the other business districts in DFW need gimmicks or subsidies just to compete.

Atlanta's airport, for example, doesn't have a pocket Hercules like Las Colinas built next to it. Atlanta just has a lot of flights and passengers flying in and out. The development that DFW airport has helped establish in and around its immediate area is far more significant than the numbers of flights and passengers that Atlanta's airport handles on a daily bases.

For the love of God, stop it already!

[nucklehead]

Nucklehead, do you not know why tamtagon said that? Ahem..."Mister Nifty" from DM.

Yes Trae. Let me say that you are stunningly beautiful. Can I use your picture as a background for my desk top?

For the love of God, stop it already!

I came to forums to leave the shallow chatrooms, Gary. Have you ever been to a chatroom? Do you think you are in a chatroom?

[nucklehead]

How are those working out for ya?

The foreigners love the bronze statues because the old episodes of "Dallas" are still doing great around the world. Perhaps the modern world would rather watch a modern oil barron in an episode of "Houston" screw the world as J.R. once did? I had a hell of a time keeping my two sons from poking their eyes out on their horns. Then you have the unsightly bronzed cow manure to watch out for.

[Gary]

I came to forums to leave the shallow chatrooms, Gary.

Talk about shallow chat. Your posts are goofy at best, and I bet I'm speaking for most when I say, stop trolling. It's amazing that you continue your rhetoric as matter of fact when it's almost completely baseless.

Your losing respect, and fast.

[Trae]

No. I said Exxon is based in Houston while its global headquarters is based in Las Colinas. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of the global operations of the oil companies in Houston chose to base their global operations in Las Colinas for the same reason. DFW IS the big magnet of North America because Las Colinas is becoming the premier business district in North America.

In the DFW metroplex, the pull towards DFW and Las Colinas is undeniable as it is a constant threat to get relocations from the other business districts. Any company in any industry could decide to relocate from the Metroplex to Las Colinas and it wouldn't be a shock to anyone. It always makes sense to relocate to Las Colinas. All the other business districts in DFW need gimmicks or subsidies just to compete.

Atlanta's airport, for example, doesn't have a pocket Hercules like Las Colinas built next to it. Atlanta just has a lot of flights and passengers flying in and out. The development that DFW airport has helped establish in and around its immediate area is far more significant than the numbers of flights and passengers that Atlanta's airport handles on a daily bases.

Wow, what garabge.

Yes Trae. Let me say that you are stunningly beautiful. Can I use your picture as a background for my desk top?

You're f.cking weird.

[nucklehead]

Wow, what garabge.

Look, the people in this forum were saying things like "Well, all the development in DFW is happening in and around Uptown while the development in Houston is all spread out." Yet, Las Colinas is booming also. You can't put your finger on what is happening in Dallas because the market is in transition. Has been for many years in fact. When the micro urban area of Preston Center is the premier business district in DFW (only 3 million square feet of office space) something is amiss. I think the premier status in DFW is moving from downtown Dallas to Las Colinas; while, I think the premier status in Central Dallas itself is going to center around the Arts District area. Central Dallas has become too large a district to isolate its premier designation to within a freeway loop as it once did before the 80's collapse.

[bachanon]

this thread is getting out of hand. i hate to see the dogpile by the usual suspects. doesn't matter whether nucklehead is right or wrong (regardless of who he/she may be), civility is necessary.

if you don't like what's being said, or have anything constructive to add to the discussion, check out other threads please.

[sheeats]

At the risk of starting all of this nonsense up again, I just have to say...every time I've ever been to Las Colinas, I feel like I've stepped onto a movie set that suddenly shut down production. The place is eerily quiet, both during business hours and during the evenings/weekends. There was never anyone in the restaurants, no one on the streets or sidewalks, and the apartments seemed to have maybe 50% occupancy. It felt like the end of the world or something. All that infrastructure -- roads and canals and "people movers" -- just sitting vacant, going to waste.

I don't get it, I guess. Why is Las Colinas such a big deal? I understand that there are some big companies based there and I know they have some decent housing (I've got a friend who rents an apartment in the "CBD" for an exorbitant amount of money...), but it seems deathly quiet considering those facts. Have I missed something every time I've been?