Subdivisons That Never Really Became Subdivisions

[mblaise]

For years, Houston road maps showed a whole subdivision of streets in the area along Bingle between Tidwell and Pinemont. Most of these streets were never built. Some only extend a few yards off of Tidwell. Yet the road maps carried the whole subdivision of streets for years. Anyone know why this is? -- Also on some old maps and possibly the Key Map, streets are shown with -------- going across. At first, I thought this meant proposed, but these aren't proposed streets. Does the ---- indicate it was a street at one time? Is it a pathway? An overgrown street? A section never built? Anyone have any answers - I'm really curious on that one. Thanks.

[Subdude]

Ah, another Brunsville! Can you post a picture?

[Firebird65]

Don't have an answer for ya, but I've got another example of something similar.

In the 1950s, someone filled out a plat for a proposed subdivision called Contreras Estates, which was to have been located at U.S. 75 (today's North Freeway) at Gillespie road, just south of Aldine-Bender and immediately west of today's Imperial Valley. The subdivision was never built, but I have seen the name on many maps from that period, albeit with no actual streets as with your example.

It's probably a good thing they never built it, because a good portion of the homes would have had to have been condemned in less than a decade to make way for the North Freeway. That's probably one reason the subdivision was scrapped.

Speaking of subdivisions never built, Friendswood Development announced some plans about a decade ago to build homes and apartments in the last rather large tract of land left in that area, the big expanse bordered on the North Freeway on the east, the Veterans Cemetery on the west, the Sam Houston Tollway on the north and West Rd on the south. One apartment complex was built just north of West Rd, but everything else just vanished. Anyone know the story behind this?

[texianjoe]

Or they could be old neighborhoods that do not exist anymore like Toxic Bend or Flamingo Estates.

joe

[sevfiv]

I have been looking through a lot of Block Book maps lately and have come across a few proposals that never seemed to take off.

Then there's some that had streets built, but nothing else. My favorite is still the one near Baytown off of Tri City Beach Rd:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=15&om=1

[gnu]

I have been looking through a lot of Block Book maps lately and have come across a few proposals that never seemed to take off.

Then there's some that had streets built, but nothing else. My favorite is still the one near Baytown off of Tri City Beach Rd:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=15&om=1

i imagine you could find a lot of subdivisions around town from the oil bust that never got filled out until recently.

i know eastpoint near san jac mall in baytown got its streets paved but nothing was ever built. I think the school district may be putting a school there now. can't remember.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...p;z=16&om=1

[isuredid]

I think you can add Rosslyn to the list of sub-divisions that were never really built, but the idea of the subdivision did lend it's name to North Houston-Rosslyn Road.

[Captain Impossible]

There's one in the Tomball area, off of 249. They actually got as far as building the streets, lights, and entry signs. The streets are all named, and there's a huge retention pond in the back of it, but there's not a single house. The streetlights even come on every night.

[cowboybud]

Don't have an answer for ya, but I've got another example of something similar.

In the 1950s, someone filled out a plat for a proposed subdivision called Contreras Estates, which was to have been located at U.S. 75 (today's North Freeway) at Gillespie road, just south of Aldine-Bender and immediately west of today's Imperial Valley. The subdivision was never built, but I have seen the name on many maps from that period, albeit with no actual streets as with your example.

It's probably a good thing they never built it, because a good portion of the homes would have had to have been condemned in less than a decade to make way for the North Freeway. That's probably one reason the subdivision was scrapped.

Speaking of subdivisions never built, Friendswood Development announced some plans about a decade ago to build homes and apartments in the last rather large tract of land left in that area, the big expanse bordered on the North Freeway on the east, the Veterans Cemetery on the west, the Sam Houston Tollway on the north and West Rd on the south. One apartment complex was built just north of West Rd, but everything else just vanished. Anyone know the story behind this?

I saw in the paper where Sysco is building a new distribution center in that area.

[Firebird65]

I saw in the paper where Sysco is building a new distribution center in that area.

Yes, I saw that too. But I don't think that particular parcel is/was part of Friendswood's tract. I remember seeing Sysco's future location for sale on har.com a few months before they bought it and I'm pretty sure that's a different thing altogether.

It looks as at least part of Friendswood's land is listed as 432 West Rd on HCAD and is described as being 832,000 square feet. There are other parcels listed on some of the newer streets, such as Winding Bayou and Greens Landing.

[Whitesman]

I think you can add Rosslyn to the list of sub-divisions that were never really built, but the idea of the subdivision did lend it's name to North Houston-Rosslyn Road.

Actually there was a small area called Rosslyn. It is now in the area of Pinemont and Antoine road. Pinemont used to be called Main Street in the area of Rosslyn and some of the streets were never made, but are on some maps. These are the ones west of the intersection of Antoine at Pinemont, on the north side of the road. North Houston-Rosslyn Road was a link from Rosslyn to North of Houston.

[isuredid]

Actually there was a small area called Rosslyn. It is now in the area of Pinemont and Antoine road. Pinemont used to be called Main Street in the area of Rosslyn and some of the streets were never made, but are on some maps. These are the ones west of the intersection of Antoine at Pinemont, on the north side of the road. North Houston-Rosslyn Road was a link from Rosslyn to North of Houston.

The topic is "Subdivisions that never really became Subdivisions". Go down to the records building and pull out the plat map of the Rosslyn subdivision. It was never built per the plat. My statement was on topic. There are still a few areas that still fall under the original plat. That little area over by Newbridge, Rena, Burr Oak may still say "Rosslyn" on the property description, but the subdivision never developed as intended. Much of the original subdivision was replatted as Forest Pines. The Main street you refer to was in Rosslyn Heights, not Rosslyn. Those are two different subdivisions.

This is what Rosslyn looks like today

[Whitesman]

The topic is "Subdivisions that never really became Subdivisions". Go down to the records building and pull out the plat map of the Rosslyn subdivision. It was never built per the plat. My statement was on topic. There are still a few areas that still fall under the original plat. That little area over by Newbridge, Rena, Burr Oak may still say "Rosslyn" on the property description, but the subdivision never developed as intended. Much of the original subdivision was replatted as Forest Pines. The Main street you refer to was in Rosslyn Heights, not Rosslyn. Those are two different subdivisions.

This is what Rosslyn looks like today

If the Rosslyn "subdivision" was never built how is it this subdivision is listed on maps that I have.

There used to be houses on Bingle Road just north of Pinemont and also some houses used to be where the Park-And Ride lot is located now, on Pinemont.

[isuredid]

If the Rosslyn "subdivision" was never built how is it this subdivision is listed on maps that I have.

There used to be houses on Bingle Road just north of Pinemont and also some houses used to be where the Park-And Ride lot is located now, on Pinemont.

I never said that James A. Fite didn't try to build a subdivision. Only that it didn't take. What you are showing in your map is a small section of the original plat. Your map shows blocks 52-57, 68-73, 84-89, 100-105, and 116-118 of the original Rosslyn plat map. These are the same blocks which became Forest Pines Section II. You can look it up in the Block Book Maps. The original Rosslyn plat started at 5th street on the east and went to 13th, which is now Bingle. The two streets to the west of Bingle in the upper section were 14th and 15th and there were some more east-west streets up there named after trees. My point is that the subdivision only ever existed on paper. I'm sure they sold a few lots. More likely they sold multiple lots to the same people. I don't think that area was ready for a lot and block subdivision in 1909 when it was platted.

[Whitesman]

I never said that James A. Fite didn't try to build a subdivision. Only that it didn't take. What you are showing in your map is a small section of the original plat. Your map shows blocks 52-57, 68-73, 84-89, 100-105, and 116-118 of the original Rosslyn plat map. These are the same blocks which became Forest Pines Section II. You can look it up in the Block Book Maps. The original Rosslyn plat started at 5th street on the east and went to 13th, which is now Bingle. The two streets to the west of Bingle in the upper section were 14th and 15th and there were some more east-west streets up there named after trees. My point is that the subdivision only ever existed on paper. I'm sure they sold a few lots. More likely they sold multiple lots to the same people. I don't think that area was ready for a lot and block subdivision in 1909 when it was platted.

For a subdivision that "didn't take", your map (of 1915 to 1922??) shows it, along with my 1950 Houston map, my 1955 Houston map and my 1965 Houston map, also.

This non-existant subdivision, "took".... on maps for 50 years or more. But it was only a "paper" subdivision????

Some local people, who lived around there, called the area Rosslyn, back in the late 1950's, in an area which you say didn't exist.

Maybe those people didn't exist either, and since I knew some of them..maybe I don't exist......hmmmmm....

[isuredid]

For a subdivision that "didn't take", your map (of 1915 to 1922??) shows it, along with my 1950 Houston map, my 1955 Houston map and my 1965 Houston map, also.

This non-existant subdivision, "took".... on maps for 50 years or more. But it was only a "paper" subdivision????

Some local people, who lived around there, called the area Rosslyn, back in the late 1950's, in an area which you say didn't exist.

Maybe those people didn't exist either, and since I knew some of them..maybe I don't exist......hmmmmm....

This is getting silly. I didn't say the place or place name didn't exist or that some people didn't live there. Only that it didn't become what it was platted out to be. If it had, they wouldn't have been replatting on top of it 50 years later. The topic is "Subdivisions the Never Really Became Subdivisions". I think Rosslyn qualifies.

[Whitesman]

This is getting silly. I didn't say the place or place name didn't exist or that some people didn't live there. Only that it didn't become what it was platted out to be. If it had, they wouldn't have been replatting on top of it 50 years later. The topic is "Subdivisions the Never Really Became Subdivisions". I think Rosslyn qualifies.

Isuredid,

You stated that the Rosslyn subdivision "only ever existed on paper". Look at your previous post. You say because the area is not as originally platted, it doesn't exist??

This is your reason for stating that these subdivisions don't exist. Isn't that what you are saying????

If it is in the Block Book reference, like you found the reference on Rosslyn, does that mean that whole book has "subdivisions that never really became subdivisions"??

Even if a few sections or streets were built, or some streets were NOT built, as per the original plat,....it still is a subdivision, just like Rosslyn was.

Think about it.....Your reasoning means, almost all of Houstons subdivisions don't exist, because they are not as they were when they were first platted. Just a few examples are Garden Oaks, Oak Forest, Cottage Grove, River Oaks.......I could list more.........

Just because they have changed, doesn't mean that they weren't subdivisions. Some were built, some grew, changes were made over the years, and others were absorbed into other subdivisions.

[isuredid]

Isuredid,

You stated that the Rosslyn subdivision "only ever existed on paper". Look at your previous post. You say because the area is not as originally platted, it doesn't exist??

This is your reason for stating that these subdivisions don't exist. Isn't that what you are saying????

If it is in the Block Book reference, like you found the reference on Rosslyn, does that mean that whole book has "subdivisions that never really became subdivisions"??

Even if a few sections or streets were built, or some streets were NOT built, as per the original plat,....it still is a subdivision, just like Rosslyn was.

Think about it.....Your reasoning means, almost all of Houstons subdivisions don't exist, because they are not as they were when they were first platted. Just a few examples are Garden Oaks, Oak Forest, Cottage Grove, River Oaks.......I could list more.........

Just because they have changed, doesn't mean that they weren't subdivisions. Some were built, some grew, changes were made over the years, and others were absorbed into other subdivisions.

You should go down to the deed records office and research the deed record history of Rosslyn. Look under "grantor" James A. Fite starting in 1909. The legal description should say "Rosslyn". There are over 100 blocks and approx 44 lots in each block. I would be curious to know how much of the original subdivision was actually developed, although it seems obvious (to me) from the satellite and the re-platting of the only streets that were ever developed, that nothing really exists of the original subdivision. If you replat the original subdivision you have to file a new plat. This was never done for Rosslyn as far as I can tell. If you replat under a different name then it is a new subdivision. Forest Pines is not Rosslyn.

[Whitesman]

You should go down to the deed records office and research the deed record history of Rosslyn. Look under "grantor" James A. Fite starting in 1909. The legal description should say "Rosslyn". There are over 100 blocks and approx 24 lots in each block. I would be curious to know how much of the original subdivision was actually developed, although it seems obvious (to me) from the satellite and the re-platting of the only streets that were ever developed, that nothing really exists of the original subdivision. If you replat the original subdivision you have to file a new plat. This was never done for Rosslyn as far as I can tell. If you replat under a different name then it is a new subdivision. Forest Pines is not Rosslyn.

You are contradicting yourself...........On the image that you posted,with the red outline on the Non existing Rosslyn subdivision, where the street Verdome crosses Alabonson...what word is there ---- Rosslyn, not Forest Pines. You are saying because the area was not replatted and they call it Forest Pines now, is that Rosslyn is a subdivision that never existed.

Where you, yourself, post a Block Book page with "Rosslyn" titled on it, and have posted a image that has "Rosslyn" on it for a subdivision, and then the map I posted shows also Rosslyn on it also, and people called it Rosslyn in the late 1950's and before.

There is a Rosslyn Park, a Rosslyn Road, even a North Houston-Rosslyn Road....all these things for, a non-existant subdivision. Kind of hard to believe they named all these places, for something that didn't exist....except on a Block Book page.

On the section of map I posted are some subdivisions names, Hempstead Gardens, Sauer Subdivision, White Oak Acres and Central Gardens. These were subdivisions at the time of the map was made, and they are now in areas that are called another name on them. Does that mean they were NOT subdivisions because they were, either absorbed into other areas, or changed ??

On the same vien of (your) thought..............When my parents moved to Houston we moved off of Teleford and W. 34th street. Teleford was about a block long, and went south from W.34th about 1/4 mile. In the early 1960's West T.C. Jester, which the city extended from W.43rd to W.34th and onward south to W.18th, and the mayor at the time, had a ribbon cutting to officially open West T.C. Jester. The section of Teleford that was at the end of the street that I lived on, was now named West T.C. Jester. Does that mean Teleford street never existed, because of some changes the city made???

Is "Rosslyn" the only, out of hundreds of subdivisions, in Houston, to ever NOT be replatted for a new subdivision name????

It still was a subdivision, even if it was not replatted or made exactly like the original plans.

[isuredid]

You are contradicting yourself...........On the image that you posted,with the red outline on the Non existing Rosslyn subdivision, where the street Verdome crosses Alabonson...what word is there ---- Rosslyn, not Forest Pines. You are saying because the area was not replatted and they call it Forest Pines now, is that Rosslyn is a subdivision that never existed.

Where you, yourself, post a Block Book page with "Rosslyn" titled on it, and have posted a image that has "Rosslyn" on it for a subdivision, and then the map I posted shows also Rosslyn on it also, and people called it Rosslyn in the late 1950's and before.

There is a Rosslyn Park, a Rosslyn Road, even a North Houston-Rosslyn Road....all these things for, a non-existant subdivision. Kind of hard to believe they named all these places, for something that didn't exist....except on a Block Book page.

On the section of map I posted are some subdivisions names, Hempstead Gardens, Sauer Subdivision, White Oak Acres and Central Gardens. These were subdivisions at the time of the map was made, and they are now in areas that are called another name on them. Does that mean they were NOT subdivisions because they were, either absorbed into other areas, or changed ??

On the same vien of (your) thought..............When my parents moved to Houston we moved off of Teleford and W. 34th street. Teleford was about a block long, and went south from W.34th about 1/4 mile. In the early 1960's West T.C. Jester, which the city extended from W.43rd to W.34th and onward south to W.18th, and the mayor at the time, had a ribbon cutting to officially open West T.C. Jester. The section of Teleford that was at the end of the street that I lived on, was now named West T.C. Jester. Does that mean Teleford street never existed, because of some changes the city made???

Is "Rosslyn" the only, out of hundreds of subdivisions, in Houston, to ever NOT be replatted for a new subdivision name????

It still was a subdivision, even if it was not replatted or made exactly like the original plans.

I think this is just a matter of semantics. Of course there was a subdivision of land created called Rosslyn. I posted the plat map and showed the location.

To me the spirit of the discussion is about failed subdivisions. They were platted out on paper, but never really materialized in three dimensions. I will give one last example and then I give up. Here is a facet map of part of the original subdivision of Rosslyn that still exist and then follow that with a satellite photo of what is on that land today. A subdivision of land is one thing, which is, of course real but a bit abstract. A subdivision of streets and houses, cars and driveways is a three dimensional thing and becomes a neighborhood or a community, that is what Rosslyn never became.

[Whitesman]

I think this is just a matter of semantics. Of course there was a subdivision of land created called Rosslyn. I posted the plat map and showed the location.

To me the spirit of the discussion is about failed subdivisions. They were platted out on paper, but never really materialized in three dimensions. I will give one last example and then I give up. Here is a facet map of part of the original subdivision of Rosslyn that still exist and then follow that with a satellite photo of what is on that land today. A subdivision of land is one thing, which is, of course real but a bit abstract. A subdivision of streets and houses, cars and driveways is a three dimensional thing and becomes a neighborhood or a community, that is what Rosslyn never became.

Qoute ---- " A subdivision of streets and houses, cars and driveways is a three dimensional thing and becomes a neighborhood or a community, that is what Rosslyn never became."

Check the 11th column. This map has communities listed, and Rosslyn is on the list.

To say that Rosslyn, was a "subdivision that never really became subdivisions"", is an incorrect statement by you. It doesn't matter what the original plat shows Rosslyn to be. An area called Rosslyn , existed for many ,many years. That is a fact.

Map section is from a 1965 City Of Houston,Texas map.

[isuredid]

Qoute ---- " A subdivision of streets and houses, cars and driveways is a three dimensional thing and becomes a neighborhood or a community, that is what Rosslyn never became."

Check the 11th column. This map has communities listed, and Rosslyn is on the list.

To say that Rosslyn, was a "subdivision that never really became subdivisions"", is an incorrect statement by you. It doesn't matter what the original plat shows Rosslyn to be. An area called Rosslyn , existed for many ,many years. That is a fact.

Map section is from a 1965 City Of Houston,Texas map.

You are still confusing place names with subdivisions. I think what made Rosslyn a place name was putting the name "Rosslyn" in road names, even though the roads themselves preceded the subdivision. North Houston-Rosslyn Road was actually built in 1891 (at least the portion around Rosslyn) . Rosslyn wasn't platted until 1909. You need to go back a bit further in time to get some more perspective. Rosslyn was first called "Vollmer" because that was the name of the post office in the area, again another place name. The area was more commonly known as White Oak. None of the German farmers who populated that area at the time ever said they were from Rosslyn. They said they were from White Oak. Why don't you lament and rail against the fact that people don't still call the area White Oak? It's because you have maps from the 1950s instead of maps from the 1890's. Fairbanks was originally called Gum Island. Do you think people had arguments about whether Gum Island ever exisited? Do you see the Mangum Manor Park in the map you posted? That was the location of the White Oak Schutzen Verein. The shootiing and social club of the White Oak German community in the area.

Did you notice that the place name Rosslyn on your map is about 1/2 mile away from the subdivision and that the map makers chose to put the Enco sign on top of the subdivision? This map looks to be from the 60s because Forest Pines is already on the map.

You can see from this map the place name of Vollmer, which looks to be located at the White Oak Schutzen Verein or else at the Lutheran Church. The future location of Rosslyn in James Bays survey is just to the west. You can see on the map the Mangum-White Oak-Acorn-North Houston Rosslyn Road was already on this map from the turn of the 19th century.

[Firebird65]

isuredid, I get where you are coming from. I'm not sure why this other guy is argueing. He's getting place names and subdivisions mixed up, as you said.

You're speaking of plats of land that were planned one way, but then were either changed substantially or never materialized at all. Clear as clear can be. He's speaking of a place name on a map. That place name may, or may not, have anything to do with a plat.

I, for one, sure enjoy reading your posts and the maps you provide. You've sure helped me with my Upper Airline/Northline Terrace history project. Please keep up the good work!

[isuredid]

I'm not sure how well this is going to show up, but this is one of my favorite maps of that area. Rosslyn is on this map, but it didn't exist yet when this map was drawn.

[isuredid]

I found an ariel photo of Rosslyn. I'm not sure what year this was because the map said 1969 and that can't be right because by then Forest Pines would have been on the spot where the few developed streets of Rosslyn are in this photo. Someone I know who grew up in that area told me that was a poor and rough neighborhood and that most of the people who lived there were employed by the Acme brick works which can be seen just to the NE. I don't think I need to outline the subdivision because the boundries look pretty clear in the photo

[Whitesman]

You win, no more argument.

There are still some old houses in that area,that are fairly old, and one on Pinemont next to the present Rosslyn Park that shows to have been built in 1925.(Harris County Appraisal District website)

Acme Brick is on Randon at Acorn and has been there for lots of years. I helped my dad pick up a load of bricks from there in 1968.

The advertisement for lots,is quite funny.---------For Whites Only!!!!

The area called Rosslyn was a lower income black section that WAS quite a rough area. ( I know from experience of living not far from the area, and this was in the late 1950's and later.)

I am going to HAVE to visit the Texas Room at the Downtown Library. You have LOTS of interesting maps and stuff.

[isuredid]

You win, no more argument.

There are still some old houses in that area,that are fairly old, and one on Pinemont next to the present Rosslyn Park that shows to have been built in 1925.(Harris County Appraisal District website)

Acme Brick is on Randon at Acorn and has been there for lots of years. I helped my dad pick up a load of bricks from there in 1968.

The advertisement for lots,is quite funny.---------For Whites Only!!!!

The area called Rosslyn was a lower income black section that WAS quite a rough area. ( I know from experience of living not far from the area, and this was in the late 1950's and later.)

I am going to HAVE to visit the Texas Room at the Downtown Library. You have LOTS of interesting maps and stuff.

I just realized that in my aerial photo the neighborhood IS Forest Pines so 1969 must be right. I was surprised to see so many houses from what I had heard. My theory is that Rosslyn probably never had much in the way of any services such as water, gas, sewer until much later than 1909. People snapped up those lots at $10.00 a lot, usually in multiples since they were 25'X125', but I never saw any of the people who bought the lots living in that area in the census. It looks to me from the HCAD records that there are several investors holding onto much of that land. I wouldn't be surprised to see it re-developed again soon. It also appeared from earlier maps that Acorn was the original Mangum road.

[Firebird65]

I am going to HAVE to visit the Texas Room at the Downtown Library. You have LOTS of interesting maps and stuff.

Make sure you go on a really crappy day. You don't want to go on a pretty day because there is enough stuff there to keep you enthralled open to close. You won't want to leave!

[Vertigo58]

Make sure you go on a really crappy day. You don't want to go on a pretty day because there is enough stuff there to keep you enthralled open to close. You won't want to leave!

Ugh oh! here come the lemmings.

No need to dangle a carrot here.

[Firebird65]

Ugh oh! here come the lemmings.

No need to dangle a carrot here.

Actually, I hope they hurry up with the renovations to the main library. Frequently, "those with nowhere elese to go" (ahem) wander into the Texas Room wanting to use the computers or just hang out.

I know the library is supposed to be for all people, but the Texas Room is a very specialized part of the library. It's not the place to hang out from the cold reading magazines. Last time I went about two weeks ago, it was really bad. You had to feel for the staff. They try to keep things in line there, but there's only so much you can do.