My review of Dallas

[tierwestah]

I just recently visited Dallas over the holidays and left rather impressed with the city so I

[Pumapayam]

As far as areas, Dallas seems to have more shopping areas close to its downtown. There

[tierwestah]

Great review, did you get to go to Plano and check out the fancy Walmart?

Nah, didn't quite make it out there. Maybe next time. My internship may be moving out to Dallas, so i'll ahve many more opportunities to explore the metroplex.

[prodfw]

We then ended up in Los Colinas, which is a nice area but its in the middle of nothing. Its position and skyline is very similar to Uptown Houston. Uptown Houston is way more dense, developed, upbeat and active. One good thing Los Colinas has is monorail, which is very impressive.

Next time you are in Las Colinas check this out.. http://www.gondola.com/irving.html

[zebra]

Cool review. I heard it before about Dullas's DULL nightlife. At least here in Houston, we have fairly good amount of night life and don't have to drive all the way to Ft. Worth to see it.

[Jeebus]

Good review. I only wish you had pictures to post to help illustrate your review.

Maybe next time!

[TxDave]

All in all this was a fair and well written review, however I think you missed the mark on the nightlife.

When we got back to Dallas, we went looking for nightlife and it was almost non-existant. We went to Deep Ellum and it wasn

[banking214]

"It was very depressing to see a city as big and well known as Dallas have such poor night activity"

Next time check out McKinney Avenue or Knox/Henderson. People abound at night in these areas. Also, downtown is finally starting to offer some decent options for nightlife entertainment. The area downtown is primarilly located behind the Magnolia Hotel. I would say in about 2-5 years or so downtown should start looking much more like a downtown should at night.

[JasonDFW]

First coming into Dallas from I-45 south, the town appears to be somewhat ugly. It

[The Great Hizzy!]

Yeah, Tierwestah, I think you gave a pretty solid evaluation based on my own experiences, although I tend to agree with the Dallas posters who will tell you that better hints of Dallas proper's nightlife can be found in neighborhoodish areas like Lower Greenville and the McKinney Avene corridor (for a visual, just think the Montrose area).

And I hate entering Dallas from I-45. But even more, I hate exiting it in the southern sector south of Illinois Avenue. Lots of bleak and depressing areas, but then you drive a bit further east or west and you find sanctuary. True, some pretty moderate income neighborhoods but even they give you a feel of "life". Not so for the area immediately around the Schepps Freeway (is it still called that?) out to about Bonnie View Road going west and Buckner Blvd. going east. There aer some smaller lakes and the Trinity River sneaks through the southern end in this area but again, it has a very rural quality to it so you have to sort of change your mindset in order to appreciate the geography.

I absolutely love the Lakewood, White Rock Lake, Uptown and Park Cities areas (fine, fine, I'm a bit of snob--sue me). Nice diversity of architecture, some well-kept and well designed strip centers (relative to some of what we see here in Houston, though not all) and the vegetation is well integrated into the neighborhoods. As for the suburbs, I generally onhly go as far north as Park Blvd in Plano, as I tend to not really like the landscape of the areas north of there. Kind of vacant and uninspired, what with the flatter land and severe lack of trees. That's just me, though.

The areas of Big D that I don't think get as much talk as they should are the Joe Pool Lake and Mountain Creek Lake areas. Granted, areas west of there in Grand Prairie are entirely unspectacular, but the lakes themselves and their immediate surroundings are nice.

Anyway, I generally agree with Tierwestah on his views of Dallas with the exception of some minor points that you probably wouldn't get anyway unless you visited Dallas more routinely.

It's really nice when you have solid, rational and fair conversations about other cities, even if sometimes it includes some negatives. No city is even close to perfect, not Houston, not Dallas, New York Chicago or Seattle.

[Pumapayam]

Nah, didn't quite make it out there. Maybe next time. My internship may be moving out to Dallas, so i'll ahve many more opportunities to explore the metroplex.

It is supposed to be really impressive, like nothing you would have ever thought to be in a Wal-Mart (sushi?). I really wished Wal-Mart with all there money and new stores opening would adopt it. Plano is SO lucky to get this.

[scarface]

Listen, Dallas is a great city, but i've been there to hang out and their night scene is a little weak. Some of you guys are telling tierwestah there's nightlife but you gotta know where to go. I'm sorry, but any city i visit, i shouldnt have to look under a rock to find the activity! Maybe its fair to say that Dallas might have pockets of nightlife, but its not as prominent as it is in Houston. Not intended as a jab at Dallas, Dallas has many fine things there but the nightlife could use some improvement.

scar

[Pumapayam]

Listen, Dallas is a great city, but i've been there to hang out and their night scene is a little weak. Some of you guys are telling tierwestah there's nightlife but you gotta know where to go. I'm sorry, but any city i visit, i shouldnt have to look under a rock to find the activity! Maybe its fair to say that Dallas might have pockets of nightlife, but its not as prominent as it is in Houston. Not intended as a jab at Dallas, Dallas has many fine things there but the nightlife could use some improvement.

scar

I agree, Houston has it's issues too, I remember in the 80's which the Richmind Ave. "strip" was the place to party. Now most of the clubs are gone or just ghetto and have been replaced with houses or topless bars.

We have have good and bad pockets.

[rantanamo]

say that all you want, but you still have to know where to go. Are you trying to say that 6 million people don't go out much. MAny in Dallas have long recognized the problem with our localized, neighborhood type nightlife as great for those who know and bad for the uninformed. Doesn't mean its non-existent compared to Houston, just different and very localized.

[scarface]

say that all you want, but you still have to know where to go. Are you trying to say that 6 million people don't go out much. MAny in Dallas have long recognized the problem with our localized, neighborhood type nightlife as great for those who know and bad for the uninformed. Doesn't mean its non-existent compared to Houston, just different and very localized.

I'm sorry to say it but 6 million people don't live in Dallas! On the other hand, Ft. Worth's only 30miles away to an enjoy an area full of night activity, but that's quite a drive.

[Dallasboi]

I'm sorry to say it but 6 million people don't live in Dallas! On the other hand, Ft. Worth's only 30miles away to an enjoy an area full of night activity, but that's quite a drive.

Can someone please tell me when Ft.Worth night life surpassed Dallas'.They do have quite a busy CBD,They do have an attractive CBD.....But "TO ME",It feels like a mock urban setting...Kinda like a stage full of stage props of a busy city.Or like a specialy planned area of a theme park(sixflags)or a better example is hotel NewYork New York in vegas....I maybe wrong in some instances but please remember that it's my opinion.

And ..Lower Greenville is the most similar thing to Richmond Ave. in Houston.For a matter of fact the whole street of Greenville.

[feufoma]

Good review. However, I think Dallas actually has better nightlife that Houston overall (at least it's more localized and thus easier to venture to various districts whereas in Houston it's more spread out). I remember when I lived there that Ellum was kicking. Sorry to hear that it's now pretty dodgy.

BTW, I totally agree that Fort Worth's nightlife doesn't begin to compare to Dallas's. Outside of downtown Fort Worth is pretty quiet.

[scarface]

don't know how anyone can say that Dallas has better overall nightlife than Houston. Houston has really pumped up (Main Street, Parts of Richmond and Westheimer, Parts of Uptown, Parts of Midtown, Montrose).

Dallas doesn't have it all. It has alot of things better than Houston but nightlife is definitely not one of them.

[713 To 214]

Just for clarification's sake. . .All of this talk about Richmond Avenue leave's me scratching my head. What exactly is on Richmond other than Sam's Boat/Place, Dave & Buster's, a strip club behind a car wash, and some place called "The Main Event?" I know Richmond used to be filled with lots of bars and restaurants (circa 1990-98), however that's not the case anymore. With very few exceptions, that whole area (Richmond AND Westheimer between Sage and Sam Houston Tollway) is really only home to a number of strip clubs, a dangerous night club ("Roxy") and a lot of C Class restaurants. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Dallasboi]

Just for clarification's sake. . .All of this talk about Richmond Avenue leave's me scratching my head. What exactly is on Richmond other than Sam's Boat/Place, Dave & Buster's, a strip club behind a car wash, and some place called "The Main Event?" I know Richmond used to be filled with lots of bars and restaurants (circa 1990-98), however that's not the case anymore. With very few exceptions, that whole area (Richmond AND Westheimer between Sage and Sam Houston Tollway) is really only home to a number of strip clubs, a dangerous night club ("Roxy") and a lot of C Class restaurants. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

You know.........I think your right.....Because now that I think about it .....the last time I can even remember somthing spectacular about richmond was when the Rockets won in 1995.......Iwas about 15 yrs old.Then When I moved to Houston in 98,I never heard anything else about Richmond the whole two years that I lived there.

[Pumapayam]

You know.........I think your right.....Because now that I think about it .....the last time I can even remember somthing spectacular about richmond was when the Rockets won in 1995.......

What was it a parade or something, a party?

Even I don't remember.

[feufoma]

Just for clarification's sake. . .All of this talk about Richmond Avenue leave's me scratching my head. What exactly is on Richmond other than Sam's Boat/Place, Dave & Buster's, a strip club behind a car wash, and some place called "The Main Event?" I know Richmond used to be filled with lots of bars and restaurants (circa 1990-98), however that's not the case anymore. With very few exceptions, that whole area (Richmond AND Westheimer between Sage and Sam Houston Tollway) is really only home to a number of strip clubs, a dangerous night club ("Roxy") and a lot of C Class restaurants. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

You're right, Richmond is a dump. You couldn't pay me to go out over there (I value my life more than that)!

[TxDave]

You're right, Richmond is a dump. You couldn't pay me to go out over there (I value my life more than that)!

That is the point. If a visitor to Houston went to Richmond today based on old expectations of where the nightlife is, they would likely be disappointed and might incorrectly conclude that Houston has "dull" or "non-existent" nightlife.

As far as locations like Main Street or Westheimer are concerned, those are large areas and someone who doesn't know the right spots could spend a lot of time searching and/or end up in the wrong place.

Nightspots in Houston are not any easier or more difficult to find than they are in Dallas. You can find similar kinds of places in both cities but they are scattered among different neighborhoods. Any uninformed visitor to either city would be well served to ask for advice before venturing out.

Austin, on the other hand, has done a good job of concentrating a majority of its venues right downtown along Sixth Street and in the Warehouse District (although it also has some other good gems spread throughout town).

[dalparadise]

When I lived in Dallas, bars, nightlife and shopping were pretty much the only things they did right. I really enjoyed the diversity of Deep Ellum -- they had live music bars, dance clubs, hang-out bars, touristy places and a couple of fairly decent places to eat. Deep Sushi was the first place I ever ate in Dallas and was one of about 2-3 decent restaurants I found in the city...and I did look around a lot.

It's sad to hear that Greenville Ave. has hung on at Deep Ellum's expense. I hated the middle-of-the-road vibe of Greenville, for the same reason I always hated Richmond Ave. -- even in its heyday. The bars were all boring and brimming with steakheads -- no local character whatsoever, unless you consider the odd mix of suburban hipsters and Camaro mullets "local character". I did seek out a restaurant on Greenville that had drawn raves from my friends there. It was called Terrili's or something like that. Basically, it was warmed-over Stouffer's with bad atmosphere. The place was packed with poor Dallasite who seemed to not know any better.

Lombardi's, off McKinney, was a much better choice. City Cafe near Lover's Lane was also a glaring exception to my food-in-Dallas-sucks rule. Restaurants there are much more about the scene than the cooking, I think. Cool River was new and incredibly hot when I lived there. I thought it was a nice room with sub-par food. Even Joey Vallone's place lost something in the Dallas translation. The conclusion I reached was that Dallas likes to use its restaurants more like Houston uses its bars and clubs. They are more social destinations than places to really get an incredible dining experience. Dallas' fascination with chain eateries is also well documented. So, that's how they stay fed. Whatever works.

The net, though, is that I always found a lot of people out and a lot going on on the drinking, music and club scenes -- just not in the restaurant, theater, arts and professional sports (most are played far removed from the nightspots and back then, you couldn't give Mavs tickes away) realm. Sure, I know there are plenty of examples that can counter that observation, but to someone accustomed to typical big-city nightlife, this seems a little slow. Pointing to Addison or West End doesn't change things, either. Those are characterless touristy places I wouldn't ever want to return to.

I echo the soundstage effect of Ft. Worth, too. I worked in Downtown FW for awhile and found it incredibly boring. Those people haven't discovered happy hour yet and the one decent live music place closed. The only people downtown were families going to dinner or teens going to the movies. It was kind of like the Marq-E, but built to look like a town. Weird.

I also echo the positive remarks about the Lakewood area. I liked the neighborhood vibe and the variety of places around there. Someone looking for hotspots would be unhappy with this area, though.

Overall, both Houston and Dallas are only okay for nightlife. Houston gets some points for its great restaurants and downtown sports, arts and theater venues, though. They put a really wild mix of people in the streets after every game or performance, in addition to the already odd mix of clubbers, barflies and criminals lining the streets. Both are car cities and suffer for it in this regard. Good nightlife towns are places where tourists with lots of money to spend can lose their inhabitions and comfortably walk back to their hotels or stay up drinking with their newly hired prostitutes past 2am. There is more than just localized bar scene, too. There are arts, clubs, restaurants, concerts and more, all located within close proximity.

New York as a whole may not be perfect, but Manhattan is pretty damned close.

[2112]

The Richmond Strip died a long time ago. Downtown took over pretty much....although it has now stabalized....there used to be almost 117 clubs/bars/pubs in a 17-block area in the older historic district (Yes, I counted them). I think it has gone down a bit to around 80 to 90. Still not bad. I actually got tired of the main street scene. Mercury Room used to be nice, and then it died. Now I just go to La Carafe and Warrens - they will never change and that's what I like about it.

The one thing that I can say for sure, is that there are thousands of bars, clubs, pubs, and ice houses all over Houston. There is something practically on every other corner. Houston is what it always was, a saloon city. Most of the neigborhood pubs stick around and can be counted on for that afterwork brew on the way home.

And yes, there is the raunchy side too, sad to say, but many adult theaters, sex houses, you name it. I dont know how to feel about that, because they seem to be everywhere (you know, the "24 hour" "bath houses", "massage parlors", and "health spas"). I guess if you just stay away from all that, things are ok. I guess what I am saying is there probably is a major difference, it just seems that Dallas is way more conservative in that you dont have the raunch at every other exit like you have in Houston. I guess that comes with being a grittier, and yes, blue-collar, city. But I like grit and that non-conforming attitiude, I guess.

[cowboybud]

First coming into Dallas from I-45 south, the town appears to be somewhat ugly. It

[banking214]

As a native Houstonian now residing in Dallas, I make the regular I-45 communte. I actually like the drive into Dallas on I-45 right as you enter the city. There is something about the garbage/resale business on the east side of the freeway that I find interesting.

Deep Ellum is in a sad state at the present moment. It is hard to see the decline as it seemed to happen overnight. If you live in Dallas or visit often, try Local. It is a great restaurant with an amazing interiour. I really hope that someone can come along and open up a great bluzz and/or jazz establishmentt in the near future. This is just such a great area for musical venues.

[tierwestah]

That's because the trinity river snakes between downtown Dallas and Fort Worth and there is a (generally) wide swath of rural/park land around it. If you had taken another route between the cities it'd have been solid city between the two D and FW. A few miles makes all the difference. I hope you tried out different routes between the cities during your trip.

Jason

P.S. I enjoyed your thoughtful analysis.

Actually i even traveled the area off Highway 114 going into Irving. That area has a little more development, but it's still so sparse and spread out, it feels like a deadspot. Doesn't feel like city between Dallas and Ft. Worth.

I'm not saying this to try to belittle Dallas/Ft. Worth or anything, but Dallas and Ft. Worth are separated quite a bit, and its not just city for miles all the way to Ft. Worth.

And BTW, next time i'm in Dallas, i'll try the lower Greenville area for nightlife. What i really meant to say and SHOULD HAVE said, is Dallas's nightlife doesn't seem to stand out like i expect to see in a big city. See Dallas has many neighborhoods where pockets of nightlife are probably nestled up in there somewhere. Houston's nightlife stands out more to me because we have more commercial BLVDs where the nightlife is shown. Especially our downtown Main Street @ night has about a mile-long walk full of nightlife activity. Main Street is far from perfect though, it still needs to improve by offering more than just clubs and restaurants!

[zebra]

I think both cities have exceptional night life but Houston just seems to be all- around more upbeat and live. Houston is a more vibrant city. Dallas has small city center but very neighborhoodish. Still a nice town but Dallas isn't city oriented like Houston.

[scarface]

And BTW, next time i'm in Dallas, i'll try the lower Greenville area for nightlife. What i really meant to say and SHOULD HAVE said, is Dallas's nightlife doesn't seem to stand out like i expect to see in a big city. See Dallas has many neighborhoods where pockets of nightlife are probably nestled up in there somewhere. Houston's nightlife stands out more to me because we have more commercial BLVDs where the nightlife is shown. Especially our downtown Main Street @ night has about a mile-long walk full of nightlife activity. Main Street is far from perfect though, it still needs to improve by offering more than just clubs and restaurants!

Very well said. Couldn't have said it better myself.