The Islamic Cartoon Controversy -- In perspective

[nmm]

You did not answer my question. Would you agree that the Islamic State's right to silence it's detractors stops at it's borders, just as George Bush's wish to install 'democracy' stops at ours?

BTW, I applaud and support Saudi Arabia's approach of non-violent economic boycott. They may spend their money whereever they choose. I also condemn the 'violent protest' after the King verdict, if it can even be called such. I think it was opportunistic looting.

See, the thing is, for socities to expand they need to invade and spread outside their own boundaries for the sake of growth. The West wouldnt have the power and prestige it does today if it hadnt left Europe.

The way you look at it 'Would you agree that the Islamic State's right to silence it's detractors stops at it's borders, just as George Bush's wish to install 'democracy' stops at ours?' is very static, and humans are dynamic.

After a long period of French colonialism in Islamic North Africa, theres a trend of Reverse Colonialism. 10% of France is Muslim, and among youth its 20%. After ruling India for more then 75 years, Britain's biggest minority is from the Indian subcontinent. Isnt it ironic?

But yes, i wish we could all get along fine. You stay in your boundaries and we stay in ours.

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You mention opportunistic looting. While some of the protestors might of had personal motives, the thing that led to the insanity was the final verdict of the trial.

I just wanted to compare the reactions of uneducated societies who dont have the luxury of writing letters to the city goverment or calling their Congressman.

[nmm]

I believe that Muslims have the right to believe in their Allah, just as much as Christians have their right to believe in God. Agnostics also have to same right to "believe" that there IS no God, they have still chosen a "belief" so it still all works out for them. Muslims ,however, do not believe that anyone else can choose another belief other than Allah, which makes me question why the hell are they in this country ? Freedom of religion is a major factor in the founding of this country, although it had different meaning when it was written, Muslims who migrate here now need to deal with the fact that when you are a "guest" in another country, that you respect the rules set by that country. Your beliefs are fine to worship as you will, but don't spew off that your religion is "THE ONE TRUE RELIGION !" and try to make out that everyone else is wrong because they don't believe what YOU believe.

Again humans are dynamic creatures, not static. While we in the West may unanimously agree that Muslims must conform to the societies they live in, our own history is filled with conquests and imperial adventures forcing trade with Japan (Commodore Perry i believe) or assasinating S American leaders for our own national interests. Anything to keep ourselves afloat and on top.

Its easy to say "respect our rules when you come here" or "learn english if you want to live here". However theres hypocrisy in those statements.

My grandfather was alive in his teens when Great Britain ruled over India, before Pakistan was created. He tells me how the UK preached their culture and thoughts to the general populace as a whole and placed their political Indian allies in key government positions. The system was designed to increase greater affinity between the Conquistadors and their 'hosts'. Unfortunately the hosts were told they were backwards, ill-educated, believed in wild superstitions (religion), and unable to reach the status the West had through their current backward cultures.

So the Near East honestly doesnt see how you can tell them to conform to the host society when your own histories prove otherwise.

[nmm]

Though they are eloquent, I'm not sure nmm is quite acurate with his/her broad and sweeping remarks.

I'm not convinced all Muslims are as dogmatic and as closed-minded as nmm suggests. Whether or not a Muslim in native born, immigrant, naturalized citizen or a "guest", they have been welcomed and seem quite happy to be here.

All I see is hard working, peaceful Muslims in the US. If they do indeed harbor some of the beliefs nmm proclaims all Muslims do, then they do a good job at not acting on them.

As I've said before, there is nothing we can or should do about European cartoonists-or US cartoonists for that matter.

That's about all I can say as I am not inclined to debate with a person who clearly detests our "Secular-Humanist goverment" yet just as clearly uses it to his own advantage in this very forum. My guess is that the monarchal dictators in Saudi would not allow such a free and open exchange of ideas-much less the civil disagreement that sometimes occurs among 99% of the posters.

I think we have a misunderstanding. Personally, i dont 'detest the Secular-Humanist goverment'. Rather im just pointing out the differences in the thought process between two cultures.

Most Muslim-Americans arent trying to take over Washington DC. Most Muslim Americans go to work, then go home in traffic, then sit down infront of the television, then they watch football, eat dinner, go to sleep.

But they would love it if America became Muslim just the same way Americans would love if the rest of the world embraced Democracy.

And most Muslim Americans arent very dogmatic because they are usually highly educated doctors, businessmen, or engineers. Or gas station owners in the Houston area. Educated people dont embrace close minded ideas because they are too limiting.

And yes, KSA is filled with egotistical dictators, which makes me wonder why we have such friendly relations with them, yet such negative relations with the rest of the Middle East.

[RedScare]

And yes, KSA is filled with egotistical dictators, which makes me wonder why we have such friendly relations with them, yet such negative relations with the rest of the Middle East.

The answer is closer than you think...in your fuel tank.

[nmm]

if any of you are concerned about the motives of Muslims in America, it would behoove you to watch this video.

Its from the same guy who directed SuperSize Me. It gives you an intimate look at the lives of Muslims in Detroit, USA.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=85...58361&q=30+days

This second one is closer to home. It is actually about the lives of Anglo-Americans who converted to Islam. Native born Texans who chose Islam as a way of life. I thought it was interesting. Dallas, TX, USA:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9...289069&q=muslim

[nmm]

This thread was my first few posts. Awesome thread, i love it.

Just highlights the Clash of Cultures. Awesomeness.

[Guest Marty]

This thread was my first few posts. Awesome thread, i love it.

Just highlights the Clash of Cultures. Awesomeness.

Thats cool , I found this site when i Googled Peppermint Park a year ago. My last computer was a 1984 Apple IIe By the way this was the first internet site i ever seen!

[nmm]

Thats cool , I found this site when i Googled Peppermint Park a year ago. My last computer was a 1984 Apple IIe By the way this was the first internet site i ever seen!

Wow dude. You must be from the boonies.

[Guest Marty]

Wow dude. You must be from the boonies.

That Apple IIe still works, I was hooked on C.B. for a long time. That's Citizen Band for all the folk's born after 1983. Now back to the Islamic cartoon. They always get mad when somebody poke's fun at them. I don't go killing people when they insult my religion. Quit living in the past for god sake!