BRT, Is This The True Reality?

[VelvetJ]

Metro has opted to include BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) in Houston's future to the chagrin of a number of Houstonians. Although light rail is suppose to eventually take the place of BRT by the laying down of rail tracks underneath the concrete of the BRT guideway, some wonder if it's even worth the trouble of dealing with BRT at all.

When METRO revised the new plan (without input or knowledge of voters) we were told how great BRT is and the benefits of it. As an example they pointed us to Las Vegas who already have them implemented into their Mass Transit System. Is BRT what we were led to believe they are, or were we sold a bill of goods? Take a look at the photos and comments of a person who recently experienced them.

(Photos and comments are courtesy of queetz of SSP)

He stated:

"The one thing that intrigued me about the city was not the mega hotels and casinos, the never ending entertainment, etc. But rather that Las Vegas has got to be the dumbest city to ever implement the worse kind of transit system there is known to man! The dreadful optically guided bus known as the Irisbus Civis. :uhh:

I had a chance to see and experience the enemy of LRT proponents face to face myself and trust me, the Irisbus Civis is a joke! Behold!!! :speech:

Irisbus Civis coming out of its bay in the Las Vegas Downtown Transit Centre

Interior of the guided bus

Here is the guided bus stuck in traffic. So much for "Bus Rapid Transit"...

The Irisbus Civis isn't guided all the way but only uses the white guiding lines when docking in the station. Note how easily it fades away....

One of the marketing ploys of Irisbus is how the guided bus docks so close to the station that it would look and feel like a tram or metro. But that is so untrue as seen in the pics...

And probably the greatest achilles heel that I've discovered is despite claims that the guided bus does not require the driver steering the vehicle when in guided mode (in this case, when docking in the station), that is absolutely not true as the bus driver still steers the bus when it docks to the station platform.

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Given its technological flaws, the Irisbus Civis must not be explored further for any city that is considering it as a substitute for the ever reliable LRT."

Now, I think it's quite obvious the guy is biased, however does that necessarily mean his facts and examples are untrue? Will we have the same results in Houston? Will we end up eventually having to spend more money in the long run because we have once again allowed ourselves to be fooled into thinking that in Houston anything other than the absolute cheapest way is being fiscally irresponsible and a waste of tax payers money? How will these be different from the buses that already run along the routes?

[VelvetJ]

These are the photos I did not post earlier with regard to whether the driver will or will not have to actually guide the bus.

[CE_ugh]

I think metro is trying to go for the current type of transitway found on the current light rail line. That appears to be a half hearted approach to a rubber-tired rapid transit system. Seattle's implementation is much better; if you ignore the fact that the rails put in advance of the conversion to rail traffic were useless.

[WesternGulf]

I actually wrote a report on this at U of H and yes queetz is head on. I actually told him earlier how impressed I was with him being from Vancouver and how me and him were on the same page.

Basically I see it like this. I still have hope that BRT will be converted to LRT but this is why I have my doubts. Two of the three proposed brt lines are running through some very low income areas and I believe this was very well thought out. The only way the bus rapis transit vehicles will be converted to LRT is if ridership is high enough. I honestly do not believe that people are going to give up their vehicles the way residents that live along the existing red line train did for something that rides just like a bus. Do people already know this? I am not going to jump to conclusions but it is no secret that Republicans are not really in favor for LRT and oil will win when BRT arrives rather than LRT.

Read this. This lady basically has the same mindset that I currently have:

Houstonian Stephanie Stout sees the revamped plan as

[mike1]

Here's some information from a site that promotes BRT. Don't know what to think about this...

http://www.gobrt.org/whatis.html

[gto250us]

Is this some kind of joke?

Hell, the damn metro train ran over a blind guy the other day. I would hate to see what would happens if they had no drivers. When compared to other cities the same size, rapid transport in Houston is a joke. The developers who actually run this city want people in their cars, so that they can develope where they want and build the roads to get there. THe developers have fought metro and rapid transit plans for the past 50 years. I don't see it getting any better any time soon.

[mike1]

According to the searches I just did on this, BRT is supposed to have some type of dedicated bus lane similar to a light rail track so that the bus avoids being stuck in traffic. However, knowing the mindset in this town, it won't take long for someone to come up with the bright idea of turning the BRT lanes into regular HOV lanes so that they can make an extra buck or two letting single passenger cars use the system. In the end, the buses will end up caught in the same traffic as the rest of us. This plan could be workable if (and this is a very big "IF") the execution isn't a typical Houston half-a**ed effort.

[Talbot]

Hell, I'm still waiting for the construction to begin on something!

[CE_ugh]

Hell, I'm still waiting for the construction to begin on something!

They've been doing survey work along Wheeler, Cullen and Elgin streets recently. I havent got the name of the surveyors but since some of it is off campus, im pretty sure it's Metro related.

On a different note, I believe that the demand is there for the Harrisburg, Southeast, and Northline routes. I think that the ridership on these cooridors will quickly outpace the expectations. But I think Metro will plan accordingly and hopefully recieve funding to buy trains.

The line that I see as being the stepchild is the Uptown line. I worry that what you see in Las Vegas is what you'll get in that corridor.

Also the original plan didnot include commuter rail from Sugar Land or on the Hempstead cooridor. Both of which are needed.

[VelvetJ]

Also the original plan didnot include commuter rail from Sugar Land or on the Hempstead cooridor. Both of which are needed.

It's funny you brought this up ( I promise to go back to subject but), I have asked this question before about the Sugarland commuter rail but never really heard anyone address it. I wonder how the ridership of the Sugarland commuter train will be? When it opens, The Southwest Freeway will be completed, The South Main 90-A Super Road, which will basically be a freeway from the 610 South loop down to Murphy Road will be completed, and a large portion of the Ft. Bend Tollway will be done. Basically there will be 3 freeways connected to Southwest Ft. Bend County before commuter even arrives. Commuting to and from Ft. Bend will have so many viable road options, I wonder if people will take advantage of commuter rail like they would if the other options didn't exist.

With so many ways to get to Sugarland/Missouri City etc., I hope it doesn't result in Sugarland Commuter trains showing low ridership, therby giving rail opponents amo to fight commuter rail proposed for other parts of the city.

However, on the other hand gas prices will probably be so insane, METRO won't have enough commuter trains to keep up with demand.

WEsternGulf- You brought up a great point about the BRT conversions. Yeah, why would METRO spend so much money on something they were only going to keep for a couple of years? I think we may have to face BRT being more of a long term thing, despite what we've been told. From what BRT appears to be, it is absolutely no different from a regular bus, which is no reason for ridership to increase. It's as simple as pie.

Western, I too get so frustrated with not only the leaders of this city but our citizens as well. One can see our "issue" with gas/oil in the future coming like a freight train, yet we are still allowing more concrete to be persued more agressively in our future than anything else. We sit back with our arms folded and smiles on our face feeling proud and progressive because 25-30 years from now, there will finally be commuter rail out to the Woodlands. If I may quote you, "what the hell is going on here?"

[RedScare]

Velvet, I feel your pain.

A couple of points. One, the BRT will likely be long term, but not always in the same place. Once SE or Harrisburg or Uptown is converted, METRO could use these BRTs to extend the system further. If the ridership is not there, Metro did not waste a rail line on it. If ridership justifies a train, Metro then moves the BRT again. It could be used as a trial run.

Two, I agree on the oil/gas situation, but at what point do you stop building? The population is growing, so they won't stop yet. But, when prices are high enough that freeway use declines, the public will let government know in no uncertain terms where money needs to be spent.

That may be a reactionary approach instead of a proactive or foresighted one, but in an auto dominated country, Americans won't give them up (or even consider it) until a crowbar hits us between the eyes. However, the first 7 miles of track got laid and the world did not end. Phase II got approved with virtually NO opposition. That is a sea change in public opinion compared to previous attempts. The public will support well-thought out additions to the system, now that we see our future contains $3+ gas.

[WesternGulf]

And I know Galveston is less complicated than Houston, but why are they so quick to have streetcar expansions while we are hustling? Galveston has just as much rail as Houston does and per capita, the island is killing us. Aren't they about to expand again?

[CE_ugh]

And I know Galveston is less complicated than Houston, but why are they so quick to have streetcar expansions while we are hustling? Galveston has just as much rail as Houston does and per capita, the island is killing us. Aren't they about to expand again?

Quick? They've been planning to extend the trolley line to UTMB since its inception 20 years ago.

[VelvetJ]

Velvet, I feel your pain.

A couple of points. One, the BRT will likely be long term, but not always in the same place. Once SE or Harrisburg or Uptown is converted, METRO could use these BRTs to extend the system further. If the ridership is not there, Metro did not waste a rail line on it. If ridership justifies a train, Metro then moves the BRT again. It could be used as a trial run.

Two, I agree on the oil/gas situation, but at what point do you stop building? The population is growing, so they won't stop yet. But, when prices are high enough that freeway use declines, the public will let government know in no uncertain terms where money needs to be spent.

That may be a reactionary approach instead of a proactive or foresighted one, but in an auto dominated country, Americans won't give them up (or even consider it) until a crowbar hits us between the eyes. However, the first 7 miles of track got laid and the world did not end. Phase II got approved with virtually NO opposition. That is a sea change in public opinion compared to previous attempts. The public will support well-thought out additions to the system, now that we see our future contains $3+ gas.

Redscare, thank you for the empathy, I've been fishing for it from you for a while now .

With regard to your first point, what is the point of paying millons for new BRT vehicles and upgrading the the bus stops to fit them, when METRO could just lay the tracks and use the buses we currently have on the routes? From what I have seen there virtually isn't any difference between current buses and the BRT vehicles except for the obvious cosmetic difference. We are replacing a bus with a bus, which is not going to give people incentive to ride it, possibly stagnating the possibility of rail getting to those areas at all. That would also mean the BRT vehicles will not be able to be re-used in the furthuring of the system because they will more than likely never leave the Harrisburg/Southside areas.

On your second point, I wasn't really trying to suggest NO concrete should be in our future or that all current freeway projects should be halted. In fact, I actually supported expanding the Katy freeway, and lord knows 290 needed an expansion YESTERDAY. It's just I hate for those in the powerful decision making positions in this city to do things without thinking them through to conclusion. And for those "our tax money" voters in John Culberson's district to allow themselves to be persueded that including a rail line for the near future instead of two toll roads on the Katy Freeway, was a bad idea.

Lastly, you are correct about Americans and the crowbar between the eyes thing. I suppose I just want Houstonians to be smarter than other Americans. I mean clearly, proactive thinking doesn't seem to be one of our strengths in Houston in recent history, but can't we be a little bit better about it? Waiting to the last minute will come back to bite you in the butt at some point. Don't we know that? Waiting until Katrina is knocking on our door before we decide upgrading the levee system is a good idea is dangerous isn't it? Didn't we know that? Oops, sorry about the stray.

I can accept we are no smarter than anyone else but I would expect us to at least be no dumber.

Note- I am not trying to be argumentative as much as I like to always think I'm right.

[mike1]

Redscare, thank you for the empathy, I've been fishing for it from you for a while now .

And for those "our tax money" voters in John Culberson's district to allow themselves to be persueded that including a rail line for the near future instead of two toll roads on the Katy Freeway, was a bad idea.

Velevt,

I'm confused about this statement. Are you saying that they're now going to build rail along the Katy Fwy instead of the additional toll lanes? I'm not disputing what you say, but as a Katy resident I'm keenly interested in any developments on the I-10 project.

[RedScare]

No, he's saying that the toll roads INSTEAD of the rail line was a bad idea.

The BRT is being pushed by the Transportation Admin. If you don't include some of it, you run the risk of not getting federal money. It's a compromise on some things to get others. I agree that the possibility exists that the BRT routes are never upgraded. It is really up to the citizens to ride the BRT to justify the upgrade. And once the upgrade occurs, Metro can move those BRTs to new expanded routes and do it all over again, quickly.

It is important to remember that gas hit $2 less than 2 years ago. It hit $3 six months ago. Opinions are changing, but it takes a little while. But, there is hope. SUV sales dropped 30% almost overnight. It is also important to remember that our population is predicted to grow 2 million in 20 years. Even if SUVs dropped to zero, they will be replaced with Prius' and Corolla's. So, we will still need SOME new freeways. Until freeway usage DROPS, government will be forced to plan and build some freeways.

The important thing to remember is that opposition to mass transit has dropped dramatically in the Houston area in just the last 5 years. Remember when city councilmen were filing lawsuits to stop the Main Street line? Last year, when the expansion was announced, the only thing you heard was the usual grumbling from the Grumpy Old Men. Organized opposition was nil.

I still agree with what you say Velvet, I am just being realistic about how quickly we can expect attitudes to change and things to get built. Compared to the 80s and 90s, this is fast.

[mike1]

No, he's saying that the toll roads INSTEAD of the rail line was a bad idea.

OOPS! Read too quickly and missed the "was a bad idea" part of his statement. Must have read it with my heart instead of my eyes. For a moment, my pulse quickened...