SpringTX Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 One of the fascinating things I notice about The Woodlands is how so economically diverse the neighborhoods are, especially in ones built in the 1970's and 1980's. You can literally drive down a street of $300K homes, make a turn and see a street full of $100K homes, then a couple streets later be up in $400K range, and all the time be only a mile away from a federally-subsidized apartment complex.To be fair, there are often small groupings by "subdivision" of 5-10 streets where the home values are more consistent. But this isn't always the case. And even when there are clearly visible, internally-homogenous subdivision entities, there are often $100K or $200K average price disparities among neighboring subdivisions: for example, a subdivision of $300K-$400K homes adjacent to one with $100K-$200K homes. And these diverse neighboring subdivisions can be connected by multiple streets and/or share a common axis. I also see neighborhoods where the through streets contain houses $100K more than the ones on the adjoining side streets.Did this grand social experiment of a "mixing bowl" turn out to be a complete and utter failure?In the inner-city, when you have this kind of diversity, you typically see segregation in schooling. The high-end homeowners send their kids to private schools. But it seems like this isn't necessarily the norm for The Woodlands.Has this "crazy quilt" really formed real communities of diverse neighbors? Is a doctor sharing his lawnmover with a neighbor who is ditch digger? Is a "trophy wife" of a business tycoon swapping recipes with a neighbor who is a wife of a janitor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 The original Woodlands plan was designed to have various neighborhoods, accomodating a wide range of incomes. Deed restrictions limited the size of homes built in each area. The Woodlands also secured a rather large amount of HUD money to defray infrastructure costs, which required the building of low income housing.Now that Crescent Realty owns the Woodlands, it seems most of George Mitchell's utopian vision has disappeared. It now appears to resemble most other subdivisions, in that they try to get the most return on the dollar, without completely sacrificing the look.Whether the placing of neighborhoods achieved the last paragraph, however, is debatable, though I am sure, to some extent, that has occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 The Rouse Company bought out Crescent in January of 2004.bizjournals article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 That sounded like they only purchased a majority interest (52.5%). Has Crescent also sold the rest of its interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 no, crescent no longer has interest in the woodlands. morgan stanley owns the majority of the remaining interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f95kai Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 It's since gotten even worse. Rouse was acquired by General Growth, essentially a mall developer that also owns the Woodlands Mall. So the vision of Mitchell is DEAD in the Woodlands. Consumerism and profit maximization are taking over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trophy Property Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 It's since gotten even worse. Rouse was acquired by General Growth, essentially a mall developer that also owns the Woodlands Mall. So the vision of Mitchell is DEAD in the Woodlands. Consumerism and profit maximization are taking over.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>You can not blame Crescent. They only owned it a short time.If Mitchell Energy is so upset with the direction of the project, they should have never sold it. I also get annoyed at Randall Onstead (sp) getting all worked up about Safeway ruining Randall's (which I agree they did). Too bad !! You sold out for the buck, stop your complaining. Sorry to Hijack the topic..... I just wanted to get that off my chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 mitchell energy no longer exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigguy Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 We moved to the woodlands about two months ago it is a very friendly and diverse neighborhood . And it is also very white and the taxs keep the riff raff out . Everyone opens doors and says thank you . They wear ties at some of the gas stations . There are free concerts in the park on Sunday . You can feel safe at the mall because of security . Its nice because the the people who live here care about the neighborhood the lawns are kept up and you dont see old furniture in the front yards .You dont have to rich to be nice and clean and freindly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f95kai Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Diverse, and also very white? Am I reading between the lines that you think it's nice because it's white? Cut n' Shoot is white, too, you know? God, I can't stand such thinly veiled racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirzania Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 God, I can't stand such thinly veiled racism. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Easy, man. Just because someone says "It is also very white" doesn't denote anything. "Taxes keep the riff raff out" is probably what you should be more upset about, if anything. Taxes don't care what color you are and some people prefer not to live in places where the taxes are so low, crack houses are popping up all over the place. Again, this can happen in any color neighborhood. You immediately mark the statement as "racism" just because he said "white"? Diversity can also mean SES, so please just be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Nice try, Kirz, but the statement pretty much speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirzania Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Nice try, Kirz, but the statement pretty much speaks for itself. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :sighs: Just makes me sad when people jump all over someone for saying "I like living in a white neighborhood," screaming "Racist!" Doesn't it make the other person just as racist? ---------------------------- So maybe the way to make everything right, is for God to just reach out and turn off the light. Edit: Last post on the subject; I don't want a big tangent like over on "Why Casual People are Skipping Downtown." (Obviously because of the mass transportation, restaurants and people who tip girls with small, tight tushies.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 It wasn't the fact that he liked living in a neighborhood that is white. It is the fact that "whiteness" was one of the criteria. Look at posts by bachannon, for instance. He is one of the Woodlands biggest cheerleaders. But, race never enters into it.This post suggested that the Woodlands was nice BECAUSE it is overwhelmingly white. That, my friend, is a bigoted remark. It is his right to have bigoted views. It is my right to be disgusted by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 friendly and diverse neighborhood . And it is also very white and the taxs keep the riff raff out . They wear ties at some of the gas stations . You can feel safe at the mall because of security . whoah!stay out of houston proper...you'll get eaten alive! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 and wait a sec - maybe he meant "white" as in sterility, not caucasian... "You dont have to rich to be nice and clean and freindly" yeah, that's it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 i read that george mitchell had intended for the woodlands to be not only economically diverse but racially diverse. he was quoted during the woodlands' 30th anniversary saying that we had a long way to go in the area of racial diversity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringTX Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 We moved to the woodlands about two months ago it is a very friendly and diverse neighborhood . And it is also very white and the taxes keep the riff raff out . Everyone opens doors and says thank you ...<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think his observation of "very" in regards to whiteness was meant to note its peculiarity. Or how extreme it is. Especially since he noted how diverse it was there.I can't possibly imagine he would be publicly complimenting whiteness. That just isn't typically done in middle-class America in the 21st century. That would have been VERY bold, given the political correctness that dominates all aspects of our very understanding of race these days. Unless he's 90 years old and has lived in a cave for the past 50 years, I just can't imagine it.So anyone jumping on him for being a "racist" is probably jumping the gun a little bit. I could be wrong in this regard. But I suspect otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringTX Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Bigguy, what part of The Woodlands did you move to? We're moving there shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 what part of The Woodlands did you move to? We're moving there shortly.Well, so long Ponderosa Forest, huh? Are you moving away because of the Spring ISD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringTX Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 Well, so long Ponderosa Forest, huh? Are you moving away because of the Spring ISD? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How did you know? We were considering Northampton, which I believe is in your neck of the woods. I would make a bad joke and say that the Grand Parkway threat scared us away from there, but I actually believe the GP won't be so bad, especially if they do as some have pointed out and add sound buffers and landscaping and so on. The schools in your area (Hildebrandt, Klein Oak, etc.) seem to be more than decent. Especially the IB program at Oak. Although the drug rumors about Oak seem to follow it like flies on a ribroast. I'm not sure if there's any truth to it. These days, friends we know who want to escape to the country are reciting the mantra of "Tomball or Magnolia" as the current "country" destinations. We picked The Woodlands not because it was any less dense or the housing any better than your neck of the woods. We picked it because we have this notion that the aggressive and manipulative Woodlands Operating Company will "stack the deck" and control development to benefit the residents, which will ensure the quality of life, schools, and long-term property investment. It's a sellout on our part, I guess. But after the perils of Spring ISD, as you point out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirzania Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 We were considering Northampton, which I believe is in your neck of the woods. I would make a bad joke and say that the Grand Parkway threat scared us away from there, but I actually believe the GP won't be so bad, especially if they do as some have pointed out and add sound buffers and landscaping and so on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You have to figure that other people would love being so close to the GP when it comes time to resell too. As it stands now, the GP isn't too bad to look at. Lots of greenery in the median and the style of the signs and overpasses is simplistic and easy on the eyes. Granted, it's a highway, so it's not exactly eye-candy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 SpringTX- You might do well to consider moving close to Gosling and 242, so that you will be zoned into College Park High School. It looks a lot like Klein Collins in the Spring area, both mammoth university-looking campuses that cost millions to build. If you are still considering the Klein area, you might want to look around 2920 and Falvel. The three schools lumped together there, Kreinhop, Schindewolf and Klein Collins are all brand-new and extremely convenient to the adjacent surrounding communities such as Normandy Forest, Hannover and Bainbridge Estates. Good Luck in your search! p.s. I hate to say this, but with the current mold remediation project going on at Northampton Elementary School, there will probably never be a better time to buy a house in Northampton... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringTX Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 SpringTX-You might do well to consider moving close to Gosling and 242, so that you will be zoned into College Park High School. It looks a lot like Klein Collins in the Spring area, both mammoth university-looking campuses that cost millions to build. If you are still considering the Klein area, you might want to look around 2920 and Falvel. The three schools lumped together there, Kreinhop, Schindewolf and Klein Collins are all brand-new and extremely convenient to the adjacent surrounding communities such as Normandy Forest, Hannover and Bainbridge Estates. Good Luck in your search! p.s. I hate to say this, but with the current mold remediation project going on at Northampton Elementary School, there will probably never be a better time to buy a house in Northampton... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Too late. We're headed to the (old) Woodlands High School zone. That IS a nice area you mention, though. Basically, it's hard to go wrong anywhere in The Woodlands. Northampton has, dollar for dollar, simply the best housing on the north side of Houston. Period. I don't know where else you can find a 3,500 sq ft custom-built upscale home (granted it's a few decades old) on a half-acre lot, in a golf course community, with mature trees...for $150,000. Northampton's not your 'hood, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Northampton has, dollar for dollar, simply the best housing on the north side of Houston. Period. I don't know where else you can find a 3,500 sq ft custom-built upscale home (granted it's a few decades old) on a half-acre lot, in a golf course community, with mature trees...for $150,000.Northampton's not your 'hood, is it? Yes, I live in Northampton. I've been here about 10 years now. But... in all that time, I've never seen any house fitting the description you listed above for only $150K, more like $250K or $350K. Some of the older homes near the front part of the 'hood are around the price of $150K, but they're not quite that large and they're not on the golf course, however they are on very large lot sizes with many, many mature trees. Most of the custom homes, even the older ones, are well above that price range. But, I'm glad to hear that you liked it. I don't see many subdivisions in northwest Houston that can hold a candle to it, but hey, I might be a little prejudicial about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringTX Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Yes, I live in Northampton. I've been here about 10 years now. But... in all that time, I've never seen any house fitting the description you listed above for only $150K, more like $250K or $350K. Some of the older homes near the front part of the 'hood are around the price of $150K, but they're not quite that large and they're not on the golf course, however they are on very large lot sizes with many, many mature trees. Most of the custom homes, even the older ones, are well above that price range. But, I'm glad to hear that you liked it. I don't see many subdivisions in northwest Houston that can hold a candle to it, but hey, I might be a little prejudicial about that! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The $150K was a little too low, the 3500 sq ft was a little too high, and the 1/2 acre was slightly exaggerated, if only slightly. To be technically correct, it's probably fair to say a 3000 sq ft home on a 1/3 acre for $175,000. And that's in the golf course community as a whole (if not directly on the golf course per se). I've seen folks tooling down the streets of the (older part of the) neighborhood in golf carts, headed for the golf course. So I consider it all near the golf course. Anyways, the bottom line is that the lots are HUGE, and the schools are in walking distance. There's a golf course right there. We're talking mature trees. And the houses are large, upscale and customized. When I mentioned Ponderosa Forest was on par with Champions back in its heydey, I would also include Northampton in that small circle of those few elite communities of the 1970's of Northwest Houston. NH also was one of the few founders of NWAL, I believe, like PF. If I had to compare PF with NH, it's not really a contest, simply because of those awesomely large lots in NH. One doesn't typically see lots like that. The only problem with NH that I see is that basically everything around it is turning into medicore mush: cookie-cutter, bland, medium-income, treeless subdivisions. And the noisy, jumbled strip centers that accompany them. The bottom line is that Northampton is one of the most awesome neighborhoods in the Houston suburbs, and most people never heard of it. If I wasn't headed to The Woodlands, I'd probably be packing for Northampton right now. Good luck 'Cudas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 The bottom line is that Northampton is one of the most awesome neighborhoods in the Houston suburbs, and most people never heard of it. If I wasn't headed to The Woodlands, I'd probably be packing for Northampton right now. Good luck 'Cudas. Go Panthers, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringTX Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 Go Panthers, too! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Watch out for the Mustangs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pineda Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 The Mighty Mustangs of Hildebrandt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieDidIt Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 It's since gotten even worse. Rouse was acquired by General Growth, essentially a mall developer that also owns the Woodlands Mall. So the vision of Mitchell is DEAD in the Woodlands. Consumerism and profit maximization are taking over.<{POST_SNAPBACK}>I agree with this statement completely. And putting a Walmart next to the homes off Player Woods and the Gary Player Golf course is not a sign of pushing diversity, but a sign of all in out STUPIDITY. Why does the Woodlands need THREE Walmarts anyway? sheeshsorry to keep harping on this subject, but I have to pass that construction site daily and it irks me how close the thing is. The crime is so bad next to the Walmart on Rayford Sawdust, we lock our doors getting to the Orwall fields. Now we are going to be living in a diverse crime area. JOY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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