Trains In The Night

[uncertaintraveler]

Not sure if this rant should go in this forum in another, but why does the city allow trains to rumble and blow their horns through town in the wee hours of the morning???

In the Memorial/Heights/Waugh area, you rarely hear trains during the day--maybe once every two weeks. But between midnight and five a.m., and especially on Sunday, Tuesday, and Friday, sometimes it seems there is a train passing through every 30 minutes, each one blowing their horn constantly. I rent a place a good mile from the tracks, but I can still hear them as if they were coming through my living room.

Given the rise in development in this area, I'm surprised the trains haven't hurt the housing market. I'd love to live in the area, but there is no way I can justify spending 200K, or more, on a place and have my sleep interrupted by the trains...

Anyone know why the city hasn't cracked down on the trains, or instituted restrictions on the time of day (or night) when trains can operate? Or, alternatively, anyone know of who I should contact to start such a crack-down?

[Sunstar]

Not sure if this rant should go in this forum in another, but why does the city allow trains to rumble and blow their horns through town in the wee hours of the morning???

In the Memorial/Heights/Waugh area, you rarely hear trains during the day--maybe once every two weeks. But between midnight and five a.m., and especially on Sunday, Tuesday, and Friday, sometimes it seems there is a train passing through every 30 minutes, each one blowing their horn constantly. I rent a place a good mile from the tracks, but I can still hear them as if they were coming through my living room.

Given the rise in development in this area, I'm surprised the trains haven't hurt the housing market.  I'd love to live in the area, but there is no way I can justify spending 200K, or more, on a place and have my sleep interrupted by the trains...

Anyone know why the city hasn't cracked down on the trains, or instituted restrictions on the time of day (or night) when trains can operate? Or, alternatively, anyone know of who I should contact to start such a crack-down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a very good question. Regardless of where I've lived in Houston, I never seem to get more than a mile or two away from train tracks, and the incessant blowing on the horns seems very unnecessary. If there is a good reason for doing this, I'd like to know what it is.

[midtown 4.2]

I live in Midtown, and can hear the late night trains too! Sometimes it seems like the train engineers just lay on the horn just for fun. You'd think a few blasts would suffice.

[713 To 214]

If there is a good reason for doing this, I'd like to know what it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reason is embodied in Metro's final train-vehicle crash statistics for the year of 2004. The horns are blown in an effort to warn on-coming vehicular and pedestrian traffic to "get the hell out of the way. . .the train is coming." It really is no different than what freight trains have been doing for years at railroad crossings.

[kjb434]

The horns are required by the FRA (just like the FAA for planes). Some communities in the midwest have passed ordinances to stop trains from using their horns especially in the evenings. The train companies sited safety for the horns usage. They do not want to be held liable for and injury and the plaintiff claims they had no warning. There are many places in the country and even in the metro Houston area where the only signage at a RR crossing is a sign that says railroad. No lights or baricades. The horn would be your only warning.

The reason more trains pass at night is at the request of the City of Houston and many metropolitan areas for traffic reasons. Many cities in the US don't have many roads that pass over or under the tracks to avoid the train. Just look at Richmond, Westheimer, and San Felipe just inside the loop. There is no way to bypass this unless you can make it down to US 59 or Memorial Park. Hardly a time saver. Having most of the trains pass at night and limiting the daytime trains to only the ones that have to be moving helps traffic flow around the city.

I went to college in a small town in north Lousiana named Ruston (pop 20,000). This town was a typical small town with a train tract that runs straight through the middle of the city. Most of the trains passed through the city between 8pm and 6am. One main road on the edge of the city passes under the tracks and two small roads went over the tracks. One of the roads that went over was a small city street that connected the university to many of the apartment across the tracts. The train went into a trench and the bridge was just a short span across the tracts. I got use to the sound of the trains roughly a month after i was there.

We have no rights to stop the trains because of interstate commerce rulings in the supreme court and legislation. If you attempt to stop the trains, they can fight back that you are hindering there means to an income and their clients can also fight back also. Also, in most cases people living near the trains settled after the tracts were already in place. They can claim that you should have known that trains will pass and make some noise.

I have two tracts passing near my new townhome that almost complete in the Cottage Grove area. I look at them as a fact of life and actually the sound isn't all that bad.

[GovernorAggie]

Also, I've heard that there is some unwritten rule that gives freight trains a lot of leeway and extra priviledges because of the railroad industry's role in the modernization of this country.

[Guest danax]

Also, I've heard that there is some unwritten rule that gives freight trains a lot of leeway and extra priviledges because of the railroad industry's role in the modernization of this country.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The railroads have a sort of grandfathered arrogance. The HPD officer that comes to our neighborhood meetings where I live on the East End tells how they sometimes will park trains all night blocking intersections and, when HPD shows up to run them off, they have actually gotten into fist fights with them. Also, they only have to maintain their right-of-ways twice a year so if you have their tracks running through your neighborhood they will contribute to a slum-like look with foot high weeds.

[travelguy_73]

Seems like I heard from more than one person that a movement was afoot in the city to pass a noise reduction ordinance regarding train horns. Then again, one of those people was trying to sell me a loft near a track, LOL.

Travelguy_73

[ssullivan]

There is an effort going on right now to establish a quiet zone on the tracks that run north and south from South Main up through parts of Westbury then north between West University and Bellaire, and finally up the edge of River Oaks and through Memorial Park. In order to establish a quiet zone all crossings have to meet a certain level of warning signs, lights, and crossing arms. Last I read in the Chronicle the next step in the proposal was evaluating what improvements have to be made to each crossing before a quiet zone can be established. But hopefully it is coming. I'm nearly two miles away from that track and can hear the trains at night when they come through. Fortunately I'm far enough away they don't wake me up - I only hear them if I'm awake already. But I can't imagine what it must be like for some of my neighbors down the road who are a lot closer to the tracks.

[N Judah]

I like hearing the sound of far-off trains in the middle of the night. It reminds me of when I was a kid.

But I can see how living right next to the tracks would be really unpleasant.

[uncertaintraveler]

Thanks for the all the answers.

After reading all of the posts, it seems to me that instituting a "quiet zone" in the manner suggested by SSullivan would be the best answer.

Additionally, kgb434, I'm not sure interstate commerce rulings actually protect train companies from being regulated by cities. Although, ideally, a city would institute regulations prohibiting trains from operating during certain hours, I see no reason why a city's police power couldn't apply to, at the very least, prohibiting the blasting of horns at certain hours. Certainly a city has a rational interest in protecting the health (i.e., sleep) of its citizens.

Also, might the concept of nuisance apply to? Even those who "come to the nuisance", such as those who move to an area knowing the existence of the nuisance-causing activity, can sometimes shut-down the disturbing activities or actor.

I'm just trying to come up with some ways houstonians can fight back to keep trains from ruining their quality of life, or sleep.

[ricco67]

Unfortunately, the horns of the trains become a bit more required during the late evening/early morning hours. I've seen the need many times.

The thing is that there is literally no place in Houston where one can be free of "Train noise" either Metro or Regular rail. I've been at Treasures and (at what can be considered "quiet" heard the train Newcastle. It's more true as you get into the "urban" areas inside of 610. If people can get used to sleeping near railroad tracks (like I did in my youth) it will eventually be nothing but background noise. It just takes a bit to get used to.

Ricco

[MidtownCoog]

Regardless of where I've lived in Houston, I never seem to get more than a mile or two away from train tracks,

What do you expect? We have a train and tracks on the City of Houston seal.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Guest danax]

What do you expect?

[kjb434]

The RR right-of-ways that being abandoned are being studied by metro. The line that Shepherd, Durham, and TC Jester have bridge over (just north of I-10) is part of Metro's plans to connect downtown to the Northwest Transit Center by I-10 and the West Loop. HCTRA has condsidered this route as a toll road also, but there was much oposition to it.

I think it is possible to keep the current track alignements and work around them. Soundwalls can be built or beautification can be achieved along the tracks. The town of Ruston Louisiana where I went to college has built parks and trails along the tracks that cut the town in half. College students can now walk or ride their bikes along side of the tracks to the small downtown to eat and shop. All safety precautions were built in to the trails also. The tracks are really quite nice through the town now. Kanasas Southern (owner of the tracks) worked with the city. The RR company gave them all the safety issues that had to be addressed so the city can build its parks and trails. Now the alignment of the tracts have served to unify the city instead of bisect it.

[editor]

The railroads have a sort of grandfathered arrogance. The HPD officer that comes to our neighborhood meetings where I live on the East End tells how they sometimes will park trains all night blocking intersections and, when HPD shows up to run them off, they have actually gotten into fist fights with them. Also, they only have to maintain their right-of-ways twice a year so if you have their tracks running through your neighborhood they will contribute to a slum-like look with foot high weeds.

When I lived in Wisconsin, the railroad had to pay a fine if it blocked a railroad crossing. I believe it was something like $150 every 15 minutes. The reason was that the railroad ran right through the center of town, so when the trains stalled (invariably), all the ambulances and fire trucks would be trapped on one side.

Eventually the railroad (Wisconsin Central) got sick of it, and upgraded the tracks through town. Last I heard, instead of it taking 30 minutes for the train to go through, they have a quad set of tracks, and the trains never even slow down, just blowing through in a couple of minutes.

It really is all about the crossings. If you live somewhere that has modern crossings, the trains won't slow down and might not have to blow their whistles. Someone mentioned earlier about towns in the Midwest getting the trains to stop blowing their whistles. This was only after the towns, at great expense, paid to upgrade their crossings.

For what it's worth, I lived at Dakota Lofts for 18 months, which is just a few dozen yards from the tracks that go through downtown. It was Hell.

[editor]

What do you expect?  We have a train and tracks on the City of Houston seal.

And isn't the motto something like "Where 11 Railroads Meet the Sea?"

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[ricco67]

Danax,

I agree with 27's comments. Ultimately, freighttrains are a reality and necessity that we're just going to have to get used to. Without the, commerce would crawl to a stop just so we can all get a little more sleep.

There are a number of solutions we can take, but they would be far too expensive and inconvienent to implement.

In otherwords, we should all get over it. It's like living in MN. and you HATE the snow. Either get used to it, or move.

Ricco

[Guest danax]

Danax,

I agree with 27's comments.  Ultimately, freighttrains are a reality and necessity that we're just going to have to get used to.  Without the, commerce would crawl to a stop just so we can all get a little more sleep. 

There are a number of solutions we can take, but they would be far too expensive and inconvienent to implement.

In otherwords, we should all get over it.  It's like living in MN. and you HATE the snow.  Either get used to it, or move.

Ricco

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, maybe the leprosy analogy was not accurate. Of course I'm not saying we should wipe out rail, just that we need to deal with the noise issue. Far too expensive and inconvienient? Surely some relatively inexpensive deas are available. This is not a high-tech problem. Why not put some kind of heavy duty iron gate that retracts like a driveway gate that would absolutely prevent any vehicle from crossing the tracks when necessary?

I refuse to accept an opinion that there is no affordable 21st century solution for a 19th century problem.

[ricco67]

Hate to tell you this, but gates eventually break, things happen. There are too many crossings in a city of this size to make it practical.

The other solution would be simply to re-route all trains (yes, including amtrak) out of the city limits or simply moving the city and starting fresh with no railroad tie in at all. Including lightrail.

Ricco

[uncertaintraveler]

Simply saying that someone should either get used to something (i.e, the sound of trains blasting away throughout the night) or move is a simplistic, knee-jerk response that will never result in any solutions.

I'm not saying we need to force trains to operate only in designated areas. I do believe, however, that forcing trains to operate only at designated times is a viable option and doing so wouldn't hurt interstate commerce to the level some here seem to think.

I also believe that there are things that were perfectly acceptable decades ago that are no longer acceptable today, such as rail companies making no apparent effort to consider the quality of life of those who live near railines. Someone mentioned the idea of gates, which I think is a wonderful idea...and someone countered saying that "gates break." Well, horns malfunction but trains still use them. (I also have no doubt that many a train have been run with defective horns..) My point is just because gates might fail every so often doesn't mean they can't be a fine solution to the problem.

Maybe the city should just implement a "no-blow" time...if the trains want to run during this time, fine, just don't blow your horn. If someone happens to get hit by a train during the no-blow time, well, that's a shame, but if they couldn't understand that flashing red lights and a bright white light coming towards them means you shouldn't cross the railroad, well, maybe they don't really need to live in this town anyway.

But for those of us who do know when to not cross the railroad, surely something can...and should...be done to improve our quality of life.

[ricco67]

Well, I saw your points, and I understand that no mechanical device is EVER 100% defective free or works 100% of the time, in today's "sue" happy society, it would take only a few "morons" to hit into a train before some lawsuits would occur (whether or not they're settles is a moot point, they cost a considerable amount of money) and there would be an outcry akin to the morons over at "action america" and such.

A no blow section some parts of the night would be fine, but it would simply be as impractical as limiting traffic at night.

The reason why alot of the (freight) trains run at night is so it wouldn't interefere with daily traffic. If you would have the majority of the trains scheduled to run during the day, it would cause a considerable burden during the day along some stretches.

Consider Westheimer, San Filipe, and Richmond. They have a major line crossing those (amoung other) streets. can you imagine the chaos that would result if a train crossed every few minutes, including during rush hour?

I'm not saying, "Deal with it" simply as a lack of finding a solution, but rather all the angles that have been tried, thought through, and propososed all have pluses and minuses and those that are adversely affected will fight the changes as vigorously as those that would benifit from such a change.

Ricco

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Guest danax]

I'm not saying, "Deal with it" simply as a lack of finding a solution, but rather all the angles that have been tried, thought through, and propososed all have pluses and minuses and those that are adversely affected will fight the changes as vigorously as those that would benifit from such a change.

Ricco

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There will be a solution. In the past, the "accept it or move" mentality was realistic because most of the people affected were poorer people who probably felt powerless and decided "nothing can be done", which was probably correct then.

But today, the inner city is becoming a prime place to live and the people that are living there and will live there are people that are sensitive to quality of life issues. The critical mass of people will become squeeky wheels and, voila!, a solution will materialize out of thin air, and then we'll all wonder why it wasn't done decades ago.

I was at the town hall meeting for the San Jacinto Rail line and that seemed pretty much hopeless but eventually the Surface Transportation Board gave in. I think the reason they found another solution is because they encountered opposition from citizens and city leaders.

Also, I think that the times have changed too. 40 years ago they would've told you to "get used to it or move". 40 years ago to see two men embracing each other, even if father and son, would've brought a far different reaction than today too.

C'mon you all. Can't you see what is happening? Cities are being re-invented. We are in a renaissance period and it isn't likely to change anytime soon. The inner-loop area is going to be filled with people who want a nice place to live and know how to make it happen.

When I'm 95, this place is gonna be fantastic!

[debmartin]

this may sound loony but isn't there something you could do to your home to improve on the outside noise getting inside? my home is so full of noise and loud music the noise of a train could not compete (one of my kids plays the drums) although we recently were able to sound proof and make it enjoyable for all.

noise pollution is a problem all around - many times i have to put my hands over my ears at an intersection because the car next to mine is booming with thumping bass. i love music and went to thousands of concerts in the 70's where i came home with my ears ringing or i could not hear well the next day and i still cannot comprehend the music that comes out of someone's car like that.

how about car alarms? they go off everywhere and nobody even glances over to see if a car's being stolen or broken into - we've become so accustomed to the noise even though it's loud annoying. i personally would not buy a home real close to tracks because of the noise and vibration, also because of the crime factor associated with the lax safety and security of the railroads. different people are affected to different degrees by nuisences, those who can ignore do so and those who cannot will probably have to relocate to find peace. don't look to government (city, state or federal) to sympathize - they are generally unconcerned about quality of life issues like homelessness, hunger, healthcare for the uninsured or lack of budget for police and firefighters. guess how little they are concerned with noise pollution?

debmartin

[bachanon]

there is new building technology that is all about sound reduction. sorry i can't elaborate, but it's out there in several forms. david powers homes are using one kind and there is someone here on HAIF that sound proofed a room successfully (subdude maybe?). it's there if you look for it.

i'm waiting for someone to create a sound absorbing tower that when spaced appropriately with other towers will reduce road noise. these devices could be placed in green space and painted brown to mix with the trees. (note that i live in the woodlands in a neighborhood that backs up to woodlands parkway with 50 feet of pine forest as a barrier. i don't like walls. i want something that blends in with the forest and does not obstruct light or act as a barrier to wildlife.)

it's the shiraz. sorry.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Guest danax]

Maybe you're all right. Maybe there aren't enough people yet who think train's blowing is a problem worth solving to get anywhere. I am surprised that so many here act like fixing it is more difficult and costly than space travel at the speed of light, curing cancer and free energy put together.

Ear-splitting train whistles ARE a 19th century problem in that they originated then and still exist even though everything around them has changed. If a train were to be built in this century that ran through dense neighborhoods, special consideration would be given to the whistle noise.

Of course, I'm talking about MetroRail. If they had proposed a full-on train sound there's no way anyone living near would've voted for it, so "quality of life" was a prime consideration. Even with 70+ wrecks with cars, I highly doubt that there will ever be anything but the cute little choo-choo sound.

Hopefully the quiet zone idea or the TXDOT plans to re-route tracks will happen and work.