HISD Needs $805 Million In Repairs

[VicMan]

And, to add, Westbury got a chunk of a brand new campus when the old campus building was revealed to be unsafe.

"In any event, the concrete that was supposed to test out at 3,000 pounds per square inch had made it up to only a thin and stretchy 1,400 to 2,000 psi."

The Houston Press wrote an article about Westbury, referring to it as HISD's "Red-headed Stepchild" - http://www.houstonpress.com/2001-09-06/news/stepchild/

"Many would rightfully say that this was the perfect example of HISD at its best: getting the kids to safety, keeping them safe, working through the night on plans that would enable them to negotiate the last week of school and finals with nary a misstep.

But many also would label this an equally perfect example of HISD at its worst: neglecting a school, thereby creating a crisis that never had to happen. And all this the result of in-district politics that passed over Westbury while the needs of more prestigious schools were handled much more quickly.

Others, more moderate, disinclined to protest but a bit uncomfortable with the downward drift of the Westbury facility over the years, saw a gift in the near collapse."

I also understood this quote:

"Today, Westbury High is more than 80 percent minority. Critics, the devoted supporters of the school who don't think it is getting its due, say it doesn't represent its (white) surrounding neighborhood anymore. But District Superintendent Richard Lawrence says Westbury High represents its neighborhood, one that takes in Westbury -- yes -- but also Maplewood North and South, and Glenshire. In fact, it covers all of the very diverse area bounded by South Main, Gessner, Braeswood and South Post Oak. This is an area increasingly filled with children in apartment complexes, he says."

Now, Westbury's population is increasing again. It jumped from 1,779 in 01-02 to 2,445 in 05-06: http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Westbury_HS.pdf

[Flamingyak]

Yes, but HSPVA is not the same as any other school. As I'm sure you already know, HSPVA is a magnet school with international acclaim. HISD has made it a point to continually mention how important it truly is. This school went from being located in a former synagogue to its current success.

HSPVA has won 3 Grammy awards for their music department. Also, it was the first Arts school in the nation to integrate academic and fine arts into a single school (true!). And it became the first school in the Southwest (3rd nationwide) to offer programs in both the visual and performing arts.

When its current facilities were being build, High Schools only operated for grades 10-12. As such, HSPVA was built for approximately 450 students. The year the new facility opened (1981) HISD switched to a 4-year High School program. As such, the school was instantly 33% more crowded than it was designed for. An example of the size limitations may be seen not only during lunch, where students may eat anywhere on campus, but during assemblies and school events as only 3 grades can fit into the Denney Theater. Depending on the event, either the Senior class is forced to sit onstage or the Freshman class is relegated to a separate auditorium and only able to participate through a live video feed displayed on monitors throughout the room. Not to mention the HISD channel located upstairs, which occupies approx. 1/3 of the 2nd floor's available space. As a result of this lack of space, instruments & large objects are constantly stored in the hallways. Several classes are even forced to take place in the hallway as they don't have enough rooms, even with temporary buildings installed in the outside parking lots. This is a fire hazard and DEFINITELY unsafe.

When HSPVA moves to a new facility, the plan for the current building is to transform it into some other kind of facility for minimal cost. Possibilities have included relocating the Andrew Carnegie Vanguard High School and even expanding the HISD channel's facilities, making a media complex for HISD.

Structurally, HSPVA is a small but sound building. Its appeal and benefits to the people of Houston is that it is an internationally-acclaimed high school arts institution. HSPVA needs this new facility to expand its offerings to its students and the community.

[musicman]

Yes, but HSPVA is not the same as any other school. As I'm sure you already know, HSPVA is a magnet school with international acclaim. HISD has made it a point to continually mention how important it truly is. This school went from being located in a former synagogue to its current success.

Tell that to a parent whose child goes to a school with a leaky roof. Daily maintenance is more important IMO. HISD has to mention the magnet schools because most of their other ones aren't doing so well. Dropout rates continue to be staggering. This hurts us all longterm.

[Flamingyak]

Tell that to a parent whose child goes to a school with a leaky roof. Daily maintenance is more important IMO. HISD has to mention the magnet schools because most of their other ones aren't doing so well. Dropout rates continue to be staggering. This hurts us all longterm.

Cry me a river? I'm sorry, but how many facilities are in such a deplorable state? And how likely do you think it is that HISD will simply leave a leaky roof on a building with outraged parents beating down their doors... Other facilities will be kept up, but HISD wants to keep its two flagship schools, HSPVA & Debakey, in good facilities. Debakey is already undergoing extensive renovations to their school as we speak.

[musicman]

Other facilities will be kept up, but HISD wants to keep its two flagship schools, HSPVA & Debakey, in good facilities.

Vic had mentioned that according to their website funding was gone. i thought that is what we were discussing. HISD is claiming they need 1 billion for repairs. that doesn't sound like good maintenance to me.

[hbcu]

My brothers went to HSPVA and know many who went to HP...I wasn't impressed

Booker T., Austin, Davis, Sterling, Jones, etc. are rotting away but I haven't seen anything written to renovate them...those schools with the exception of Sterling I think need more "love" as they're older and attract more students

[VicMan]

How about this: In exchange for one billion in repairs, HISD should close a certain number of schools to cut maintenance costs. HISD should especially close schools in the Third Ward, Midtown (I.E. J. Will Jones), Northside Village, and East End areas.

HISD should convert some closed campuses into preschools (I.E. what happened to Brock ES and Concord ES) in order to maximize usage of its facilities.

HISD should preferably close poorly-maintained and non-historic campuses.

[musicman]

How about this: In exchange for one billion in repairs, HISD should close a certain number of schools to cut maintenance costs. HISD should especially close schools in the Third Ward, Midtown (I.E. J. Will Jones), Northside Village, and East End areas.

The schools in the east end are crowded...at least those around me. increasing class size would save space.

[VicMan]

The schools in the east end are crowded...at least those around me. increasing class size would save space.

Let's see the population counts of the schools in the East End.

The following feed partially or completely into Austin High School, which lost its 5A sports status due to student losses.

Schools that completely feed into Austin High School with their total populations and class sizes:

* Burnet

** 713 in 05-06 (down from 810 in 01-02) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Burnet_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten, Grades 4 and 6 are below state average, Grade 1 is at state average, Grades 2-3, 5 are above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3367

* Cage

** 726 (down from 797) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Cage_ES.pdf

** Grade 2 at state average, Kindergarten, Grade 1, Grades 3-5 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3567

* Carrillo

** 725 (down from 861) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Carillo_ES.pdf

** Grades 2 and 3 below state average, Kindergarten, Grades 1, 4-5 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3556

* Franklin

** 691 (down from 748) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Franklin_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten, Grades 1-2, 4-5 below state average, Grades 3 and 6 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3406

Schools that partially feed into Austin High School:

* Briscoe

** 513 (down from 586) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Briscoe_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten, Grade 2 below state average, Grades 1, 3-6 avove state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3360

* Brookline

** 980 (down from 1,388) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Brookline_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten, Grades 1-4 below state average, Grade 5 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3362

* Dodson

** 512 (down from 576) - Note, was 431 in 04-05, absorbed students from Douglass ES after the closure

** Kindergarten, Grades 3-4 are below state average, Grade 2 is at state average, Grades 1 and 5 are above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3386

* Gallegos

** 599 (down from 793) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Gallegos_ES.pdf

** Grade 5 below state average, Grade 4 at state average, Kindergarten, Grades 1-3 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3335

* J. P. Henderson

** 740 (down from 743) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/JPHenderson_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten, Grades 2-3, 5 below average, Grades 1 and 4 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3423

* Lantrip

** 751 (down from 858) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Lantrip_ES.pdf

** Grade 5 is below average, Kindergarten and Grades 2-4 at state average, Grade 1 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3451

* Peck

** 341 (down from 351) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Peck_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten through Grade 5 is above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3485

* Rusk (In fall 2006 Rusk absorbed some students from A. Jones ES, so the numbers here are prior to fall 2006)

** 285 (down from 360) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Rusk_ES.pdf

** Kindergarten, Grades 1-2, 5-6 below state average, Grades 3-4 at state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3507 (NOTE: 5th Grade class average is 5!)

* Tijerina

** 716 (down from 840) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Tijerina_ES.pdf

** Grades 2-3 below state average, Grades 1, 4, and 6 at state average, Kindergarten, Grade 5 above state average: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3564

Of them all, it looks like Rusk and Peck look like the most likely candidates to close. Do you agree, musicman?

* EDIT: Rusk absorbed some students from A. Jones ES in 2006, so the above number for Rusk is not an accurate picture of the school as of writing

[musicman]

Of them all, it looks like Rusk and Peck look like the most likely candidates to close. Do you agree, musicman?

the numbers in the 2 you mentioned are easily absorbed. there are several schools you missed as well. BTW no elementary schools feed into high schools unless times have changed.

[VicMan]

the numbers in the 2 you mentioned are easily absorbed. there are several schools you missed as well. BTW no elementary schools feed into high schools unless times have changed.

I purposefully didn't get any that only feed into Milby (Which is also part of the East End), since that area hasn't seen a crunch of students yet.

As for feeder patterns, elementary schools indirectly feed into high schools through middle schools - schools in all three grade levels have separate attendance zones.

I DID forget to mention one school - Bruce Elementary School ( http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/schoolboundarymaps/BruceES.pdf ) is a part of the Wheatley feeder pattern. Some of the Warehouse district area was formerly zoned to Anson Jones Elementary School. That campus closed in 2006, and most of the boundary (including much of that Warehouse District territory and about a third of Downtown Houston) was received by Bruce Elementary School in the Fifth Ward. Bruce received a brand new campus. The rest was received by Rusk. That reminds me - Rusk has more kids due to A. Jones closing, so the previous numbers do not reflect the campus now.

So, of all of the ones I saw on the East End list, Peck ES (Actually in the Third Ward) looks like a good candidate for closing.

Looking at this map reveals that Brookline ES, MacArthur ES, and Hartsfield ES are potential merger candidates: http://www.houstonisd.org/FederalStateComp...s/HISDESmap.pdf

As for other schools to close, let's look at Blackshear ES (and compare it to Ryan MS, which should be merged)

Blackshear ES:

* 388 in 05-06 (Down from 578 in 01-02) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Blackshear_ES.pdf

* Below average in Kindergarten and Grade 6, at average at Grade 1, above average at Grades 2, 4-5, N/A at Grade 3: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3354

Ryan MS:

* 581 (down from 830 in 01-02) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Ryan_MS.pdf

* Below average in Foreign Language and Science, above average in Grade 6, English, Mathematics, and Social Science: http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/tx/other/3509

As Ryan MS has the middle school athletic facilities and the historic building, Blackshear ES should be merged into Ryan MS to form a Ryan K-8. In addition, the portion of the J. Will Jones attendance zone outside of Downtown and east of 288 should be rezoned to Ryan MS/K-8.

As for other Third Ward-area campuses, Foster and Thompson elementary schools have new campuses, so those schools should be left alone.

The rebuilt schools have, as of 05-06

* Foster ES: 457 (down from 664) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Foster_ES.pdf

* Thompson ES: 700 (down from 736) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Thompson_ES.pdf

With the remaining schools considered:

Increasing in 5 years

* Lockhart ES

** 478 (up from 463) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Lockhart_ES.pdf

Decreased in 5 years

* Hartsfield ES

** 357 (down from 427) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Hartsfield_ES.pdf

* MacArthur ES

** 391 (down from 426) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Mcarthur_ES.pdf

* Turner ES

** 327 (down from 550) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Turner_ES.pdf

* Whidby ES

** 605 (down from 645) - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Whidby_ES.pdf - I would not close this school yet

[musicman]

I purposefully didn't get any that only feed into Milby (Which is also part of the East End), since that area hasn't seen a crunch of students yet.

This area HAS seen a crush of students. they've built 2 new elementary schools to accomodate in Pecan Park alone. In the Pecan Park area, there are 4 elementary schools now. For one neighborhood, i'm sure that isn't commonplace. Remember, I was only talking East End so i won't address the other schools mentioned. One other factor is charter schools which seem to be popular on the East side.

[VicMan]

This area HAS seen a crush of students. they've built 2 new elementary schools to accomodate in Pecan Park alone. In the Pecan Park area, there are 4 elementary schools now. For one neighborhood, i'm sure that isn't commonplace. Remember, I was only talking East End so i won't address the other schools mentioned. One other factor is charter schools which seem to be popular on the East side.

Ah - that's the complete opposite of what I was finding (schools losing population) on the forum - that shows that closing schools in the Milby feeder pattern makes no sense at all.

[musicman]

Ah - that's the complete opposite of what I was finding (schools losing population) on the forum - that shows that closing schools in the Milby feeder pattern makes no sense at all.

new schools(regular and charter) are probably causing numbers to drop at individual locations but as a whole may be increasing.

[musicman]

Here are the details.

Houston Superintendent Abelardo Saavedra said today that he needs $805 million in a November bond election to repair HISD's aging schools.

The proposal presented to the school board includes money to build 22 new schools and renovate 128 campuses. It also includes $90 million in safety upgrades and $27 million for new science labs at middle and high schools.

If approved, the bond would increase the property tax rate by 3 cents, Saavedra said.

"This program will mean new safety and security for every student on every campus, and new schools and repairs for children who have been waiting for them," Saavedra said. Included in the proposal is a new campus for Carnegie Vanguard High School.

Among the schools slated to be consolidated into new campuses: Fleming Middle, Ryan Middle, Cullen Middle, Isaacs Elementary, Scott Elementary, Ross Elementary, Sherman Elementary, Crawford Elementary, Kennedy Elementary, Allen Elementary, Smith Education Center, Atherton Elementary, Dogan Elementary, Peck Elementary, Hartsfield Elementary, Whidby Elementary and Shearn Elementary. Bellfort Academy, Turner Elementary and Kashmere Gardens Elementary would also be closed.

Voters have appoved about $1.5 billion in HISD bonds since 1998.

full article

[VicMan]

Yay! HISD listened and agreed to close schools along with asking for money.

I wonder why HISD has no plans to close Blackshear ES and Jones ES.

HISD should try to turn Cullen, Ryan, and Fleming into K-8 campuses.

[musicman]

Yay! HISD listened and agreed to close schools along with asking for money.

so why a Yay? you must not pay taxes

[VicMan]

so why a Yay? you must not pay taxes

What I mean is that it will be easier to sell a bond if HISD agrees to streamline its operations by closing some campuses.

[Toggle3]

...and the public is no better. We claim we want better fiscal management, but as soon as someone even 'breathes' the words 'school closings' there will be people picketing, gaining petitions, and testifying before the city council.

Which people?

Nevermind, we know which people.

HISD needs to be closed down until the Attorney General and the feds come in to overhaul its wicked financial hoo-haa's.

Close the schools---where's that petition?

[musicman]

What I mean is that it will be easier to sell a bond if HISD agrees to streamline its operations by closing some campuses.

start listening to talk radio. they had an HISD person on some station this afternoon. it appears HISD hired a firm to do the study and the board didn't have a chance to study the recommendations. don't you think HISD should have had some input?

[VicMan]

start listening to talk radio. they had an HISD person on some station this afternoon. it appears HISD hired a firm to do the study and the board didn't have a chance to study the recommendations. don't you think HISD should have had some input?

I used to listen to a little bit of Sean Hannity just for fun, but, no, I do not listen to talk radio.

In that case, HISD should have hired an independent firm to provide some input on the size of the bond/which schools to close/etc.

[musicman]

In that case, HISD should have hired an independent firm to provide some input on the size of the bond/which schools to close/etc.

that's what they did with no input from HISD

[VicMan]

that's what they did with no input from HISD

In other words, HISD did not look at the input of the firm, right?

Does HISD still have a chance to look at the input of the firm?

Which people?

By the public, musicman meant people like the passionate supporters of Jack Yates High School, who cried against closing Yates (Yates is a tradition in the Third Ward, and many alumni are passionate about the school). When HISD considered closing Yates, some men registered a website asking the public to save Jack Yates. See it archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050306112957/...ejackyates.com/

[musicman]

In other words, HISD did not look at the input of the firm, right?

Does HISD still have a chance to look at the input of the firm?

No, HISD had no input to the firm's report. IMO the school district should have had some type of input.

of course they have a chance to look at the input but when the news came out that HISD needs 805 million, sounds like they aren't going to.

By the public, musicman meant

not moi, that was houstonmacbro.

[VicMan]

HISD should check to see if there is a significant backlash against the bond proposal. If there is, HISD should at least seek the company that it hired for consulting to see if it needs to ask for less money and/or close more schools.

Anyway, relating to the previous bond, I can state a comparison between Gregory-Lincoln Education Center's old and new campuses.

1. The old campus is three stories tall and has no charm whatsoever. I could not get inside, but the outside looks sickening.

The new campus is two stories tall and looks smaller and unimposing. It seems like HISD knew that enrollment would drop at Gregory-Lincoln, and asked for a smaller campus.

[musicman]

Anyway, relating to the previous bond, I can state a comparison between Gregory-Lincoln Education Center's old and new campuses.

1. The old campus is three stories tall and has no charm whatsoever. I could not get inside, but the outside looks sickening.

The new campus is two stories tall and looks smaller and unimposing.

..and as a taxpayer that provides no justificaiton for building a new campus.

[Toggle3]

There's significant public backlash against HISD already. No one needs to spend any money on polls; private schools in Houston are thriving.

But,

Where is the public oversight? From where I sit, HISD, with its current leadership, is incapable of making ethical decisions.

The problem with HISD is not its architecture or lack of 'charm'; it's the internal systemic racial preferences, nonfeasance and malfeasance in the implementation of inherently unsound policies.

What I simply don't understand is why HISD's has such a sense of entitlement and arrogance (rather than stewardship) w/regard to public repsonsibility.

[VicMan]

..and as a taxpayer that provides no justificaiton for building a new campus.

In Gregory-Lincoln's case, the rebuilding seemed somewhat questionable since the particular neighborhood gentrified. The deal is that there are a few elementary schools nearby (namely J. Will Jones, MacGregor) that could be closed in the future in order to expand Gregory-Lincoln's geographic area. This would justify the existence of the 4th Ward school.

As for whether to renovate or rebuild, I read an article about Pershing Middle School's new campus. Pershing MS's campus was justified, since the school is fairly popular with magnet school parents and that the neighborhoods served by Pershing remain as family areas (as in fairly wealthy family areas, i. e. West University Place, Bellaire, Braeswood area).

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive....id=2007_4265447

"The $31 million school is one of the more expensive construction projects in an $808.6 million bond package for Houston Independent School District, approved by voters in 2002. Originally, Pershing was just going to be renovated, but contractors realized the work was much more expensive than forecast.

Building would cost a few million dollars more than renovating. So the district opted for new."

Also, here is an article from the Houston Press about the mess of HSPVA's rebuilding plans (which were later scrapped):

http://www.houstonpress.com/2004-12-30/new...-shaky-grounds/

So, why did HISD scrap HSPVA's building? This is my largest reservation against the new bond. If HISD stated that it would rebuild HSPVA and then forget about the matter after winning the battle to build the Gregory-Lincoln campus, why should I trust that the district would rebuild my high school (this was announced for the upcoming bond election)?

There's significant public backlash against HISD already. No one needs to spend any money on polls; private schools in Houston are thriving.

But you would have to find where the actual private school students come from and the reason for being sent to private school. Yes, there are lots of private schools within HISD's boundaries. Yet, there are also a lot of private schools within SBISD's boundaries. SBISD, by the way, has Memorial High School and Stratford High School, known academic juggernauts.

[musicman]

In Gregory-Lincoln's case, the rebuilding seemed somewhat questionable since the particular neighborhood gentrified.

that's my point....before you said "The old campus is three stories tall and has no charm whatsoever. I could not get inside, but the outside looks sickening" and IMO this isn't a reason to build a new school if it is working fine as is.

But you would have to find where the actual private school students come from and the reason for being sent to private school. Yes, there are lots of private schools within HISD's boundaries. Yet, there are also a lot of private schools within SBISD's boundaries. SBISD, by the way, has Memorial High School and Stratford High School, known academic juggernauts.

most go to private schools because parents feel the education at public schools isn't the best for their child/children.

[VicMan]

I wanted to get inside to see if the physical conditions are disgusting. I suspect that the physical inside looks disgusting, but I have no evidence of this. If there is a time when the campus is open, I would like to go inside and take photographs.

Toggle implied that school district's mismanagement is the reason why private school enrollment increased. What I meant is that there are other reasons why parents choose private school, such as:

* They feel that public school, as a concept, is inherently flawed

* The specific private school is the best fit for a given child

* The parents want a religious education for the child

* The parents prefer the social and/or academic climate of the private school over the eligible public schools' climates

that's my point....before you said "The old campus is three stories tall and has no charm whatsoever. I could not get inside, but the outside looks sickening" and IMO this isn't a reason to build a new school if it is working fine as is.

most go to private schools because parents feel the education at public schools isn't the best for their child/children.