Blog on Red Light Runners -- and It Ain't Just Ordinary H-Town Drivers

[DaTrain]

In this blog, HPD, METRO, HISD, City of Houston, and Harris County Sherriff Dept have all been caught runnin red lights.

http://blogs.chron.com/cityhall/archives/2007/05/post_3.html

Metro and school buses, police cruisers and public works trucks were among the vehicles caught running red lights, according to data released under the Texas Public Information Act.

The citations represent a tiny fraction of the 34,000 violators cited since September, but they are unwelcome to the agencies involved and have resulted in disciplinary action against some drivers.

more in blog

Here is the worst example of the five running a red light:

U R not gonna be pleased with the next frame:

What the hell is wrong with METRO???! They ticket drivers for crushing their cars in the METRORail trains, but when their back is turned, some METROBus driver thinks goin 50 mph thru the red light is OK. Bastards. >

[musicman]

i see it quite frequently when police cars turn on their flashing lights when light is red and after they make it thru intersection, flashing lights go off.

[JLWM8609]

Wow, 51 mph in a 35 zone? That's pretty close to its governor limited top speed isn't it? That's just dangerous. I wonder what sort of punishment the operator faced.

[musicman]

I wonder what sort of punishment the operator faced.

probably a paid suspension

[desirous]

Eh, go figure. Though cut motorcycle cops turning left some slack -- it's legal for a motorcycle to make a left on red when the bike's light weight fails to engage the traffic detector. That's what HPD told me, anyhow.

[marmer]

If you have a bus full of passengers, as I imagine that driver did at 8:13 AM, I would think that trying to stop quickly would be the last thing you'd want to do. Speeding up to get through the intersection quickly would be the best of two bad choices. Same with a school bus. First of all, you simply can't stop a large vehicle in the distance a short yellow gives you. Assuming that, they probably didn't want to wind up stopped in the intersection.

[Double L]

Anybody can run a red light and this is no different. However, METRO bus drivers and city officials should be well trained on how to follow traffic safety laws. At least these new red light cameras have given us the ability to catch these misdemeanors and perform the necessary injunction on the violators. It will now be time for the city to organize the punishment given to those who violate traffic laws such as this one while on the job.

[desirous]

I don't believe they deserve to be held liable unless ample warning is provided. Marmer is correct -- it is physically impossible to stop a vehicle of that size in the time a yellow light provides, and even if possible, is very unwise when fully loaded. Have you driven a truck before?

As for "ample warning," countdown timers at major intersections would be helpful. A number of cities have installed them; why not us?

[ricco67]

If you have a bus full of passengers, as I imagine that driver did at 8:13 AM, I would think that trying to stop quickly would be the last thing you'd want to do. Speeding up to get through the intersection quickly would be the best of two bad choices. Same with a school bus. First of all, you simply can't stop a large vehicle in the distance a short yellow gives you. Assuming that, they probably didn't want to wind up stopped in the intersection.

Anybody can run a red light and this is no different. However, METRO bus drivers and city officials should be well trained on how to follow traffic safety laws. At least these new red light cameras have given us the ability to catch these misdemeanors and perform the necessary injunction on the violators. It will now be time for the city to organize the punishment given to those who violate traffic laws such as this one while on the job.

LL,

Trying to stop something that big with a large amount of delicate cargo (see: Humans), would have been seen as being more irresponsible. A bus even traveling at 20 MPH and stomping on the breaks could have cause quite a bit of injuries to the passengers inside as people that are not braced would have been crashing forward. Unless you watch and know the length of the yellow at EVERY signal in your route, you would be hard pressed to be able to time your vehicle to a timely stop. if you WERE watching the light and timing it, you're not doing other things that might be important.. you know, like watching the road.

Just for grins. take your car out (completely empty of cargo) and do some stop tests. Next, load up your car with with the simulated weight of the maximum amount of passengers (150lbs per person) PLUS a some more weight in the trunk and try again, You will notice a significant difference on how it handles.

I don't believe they deserve to be held liable unless ample warning is provided. Marmer is correct -- it is physically impossible to stop a vehicle of that size in the time a yellow light provides, and even if possible, is very unwise when fully loaded. Have you driven a truck before?

As for "ample warning," countdown timers at major intersections would be helpful. A number of cities have installed them; why not us?

I agree, a timer of some sort would be nice. Personally, I'd like a blinking yellow and a blinking red before it goes solid. it would give drivers a visual cue as to when they would be in violation and still give ample warning.

[westguy76]

LL,

Trying to stop something that big with a large amount of delicate cargo (see: Humans), would have been seen as being more irresponsible. A bus even traveling at 20 MPH and stomping on the breaks could have cause quite a bit of injuries to the passengers inside as people that are not braced would have been crashing forward. Unless you watch and know the length of the yellow at EVERY signal in your route, you would be hard pressed to be able to time your vehicle to a timely stop. if you WERE watching the light and timing it, you're not doing other things that might be important.. you know, like watching the road.

Just for grins. take your car out (completely empty of cargo) and do some stop tests. Next, load up your car with with the simulated weight of the maximum amount of passengers (150lbs per person) PLUS a some more weight in the trunk and try again, You will notice a significant difference on how it handles.

I agree, a timer of some sort would be nice. Personally, I'd like a blinking yellow and a blinking red before it goes solid. it would give drivers a visual cue as to when they would be in violation and still give ample warning.

All these arguements would be viable except for the fact that he was going 51 in a 35. this is what decreased his stopping time by the biggest amount

[ricco67]

As someone has mentioned before, if he would have come to a complete stop, he would have been in the middle of an intersection as well as potentionally having some injured passengers. His hope is to clear the intersection as quickly as possible and gunning it. Something you probably do when you get near a yellow.

I'm sure you stop on a dime when you see a yellow light, I'm sure.

I can't cast stones, and I don't expect anyone on this system can either.

As far as punishment, hopefully it was only a couple of days of suspension.

[marmer]

If you read through all the comments on the blog entry, you will find this:

I was amazed by the speed of the METRO bus, too. However, a quick calculation results in an estimated speed of 20 mph. The 2 photos are 1.7 seconds apart and the bus went approximately 50 ft in that time. At 51 mph, the bus would have been 127 feet from its original position.

I don't know if the speed that's shown is meant to show something else, but if it's meant to show a vehicle's velocity it's definitely off. Let's hope they don't start trying to give speeding tickets with these cameras!

Still, as I and several posters in the original blog stated, trying to stop a busload of passengers quickly is difficult and dangerous. If the driver punched it to get through the intersection quickly, that was probably the best choice.

[musicman]

All these arguements would be viable except for the fact that he was going 51 in a 35. this is what decreased his stopping time by the biggest amount

yeah the speed numbers don't add up to me either. normally if someone is rushing through the intersection their speed would increase. i find the numbers odd.

[marmer]

I can only think of a few roads where 51 in a 35 would be possible due to traffic density, stoplights, etc.: Westpark, and Holcombe and Buffalo Speedway at some times of the day. And they're all pretty heavily policed. I really doubt Hillcroft near Richmond was clear enough at 8:13 on a Wednesday morning to drive that fast, and the numeral "51" is either inaccurate or means something else. And do we really want to propose the idea that buses should drive far below the speed limit to avoid being caught by a short yellow? This post from the chron.com blog is revealing, though he was referring to a different picture showing a Harris County Sheriff's cruiser crossing an intersection.:

Trafficnerd's comments were right on, the reason for the short yellow on the Harris County Sheriff's picture is probably because they weren't catching enough violators at the recommended 3.5 second interval (standards typically call for 1 sec per 10 mph of speed limit) at the intersection. All American Traffic Solutions' contracts with other cities have shown to have a requirement to reduce yellow light timing if the intersection isn't meeting a set number of violations to make the system economically viable. This has shown to be an effective way to increase "violatons" and is also what causes rear end collisions to go up at these intersections. This isn't wishful thinking either, this was shown to be the case in several courts of law, including San Francisco and lead to the suspension of their program till that contract was re-written. A little follow up by the Chronicle could make for an interesting expose if that was the case in Houston, as I believe this signal shows probably is the case.

[Double L]

Well, what is METRO's policy towards red light runners? Where should we define the dividing line? Should we let them off the hook entirely?

Bettter yet: We could install signals in the buses that trigger the lights to stay green longer when they arive. In fact, the state of Texas could organize a similar system for truck drivers.

[Jeebus]

Maybe the driver of the bus was too busy talking on their cell-phone to notice the light. That or they were running late on their route and were playing "catch-up"

[DaTrain]

Well, what is METRO's policy towards red light runners? Where should we define the dividing line? Should we let them off the hook entirely?

Bettter yet: We could install signals in the buses that trigger the lights to stay green longer when they arive. In fact, the state of Texas could organize a similar system for truck drivers.

BRT systems have pioneered this. They started doing it in LA when Metro Rapid hit the streets there. This is how limited stop bus routes that used to have to stop at lights got upgraded to rapid bus routes.