VicMan

I think VicMan is stuck with some land he cant unload and hopes Sobti will read this and buy his land.

I wish I owned land over there!

BTW if I was stuck with land I couldn't unload I wouldn't have suggested all of those different streets or areas - it would have been solely geared towards one address.

however I am sure TDHCA has heard them all, especially from 1998 They still allocate more money to the program year after year. Tax Credit Housing has to be built. It is a federal mandate.

Then it should be built in a region that can accomodate tax credit housing. Sugarlandcitizen, there is every reason to support putting it in the Madison, Worthing, or Sterling attendance zones. There is no reason to build this development in an area that will be negatively affected by the tax credit housing. Build it in an area that will not be affected by this tax credit housing.

I could look up more area zip codes and see how many TDHCA-supported housing is in them. If there are any that have none, you need to support building the Goldshire Townhomes in that zip code.

If Sobti takes a look at some of the schools at 77047 they are not particularly overcrowded and have ample room to grow. HISD is building the Billy R. Reagan K-8 in the Madison High School attendance zone, so Sobti could have his complex zoned to Reagan K-8 or to Dowling, depending on where the K-8 is. https://www.houstonisd.org/portal/site/Bond...00028147fa6RCRD

There will also be a relief school for Mitchell Elementary School in southeast Houston - James DeAnda Elementary School will be in the Sterling High School attendance zone. https://www.houstonisd.org/portal/site/Bond...00028147fa6RCRD

Unlike northeast Fort Bend, southern Houston has plenty of room to grow and Sobti should build his complex in southern Houston.

The schools don't seem crowded, they are crowded. Some subdivisions along 1464 have been rezoned to 3 different elementary schools in almost as many years because of the crowding issue. And there are still no plans to build another.

You really don't seem to know much about this area unless it's something you think will build your case.

Multiple studies have show that this kind of housing exerts negative effects on the surrounding area.

Federally assisted housing programs, particularly public housing developments, have been associated with negative neighborhood impacts by a number of investigators (Carter, Schill, and Wachter 1998; Newman and Schnare 1997; Schill and Wachter 1995). (3 separate studies)

Public housing developments exert a negative impact on property values (Lee, Culhane, and Wachter, 1999).

Therefore Sobti needs to consider building this in an area where there is less opposition. The 77047 zip code is a perfect place for Sobti's development, as it is close to Pearland and only has one TDHCA-supported complex. With a Google aerial view one will see parcels of undeveloped land.

It won't be "healthy and vibrant" much longer if low-income multi-family housing is allowed to move in. That's what killed formerly good areas such as Alief, Sharpstown, and Bammel.

So the economy is pushing down property values... why in the world would we want to push them down even more by building low-income apartments in an area surrounded by single family homes?

You sure do seem to be going to a lot of trouble to sugar-coat this and convince others it's good for the area, when it's not. Do you happen to work in real estate development by chance?

I'm told by the experts that developments built using public tax money must have the area's public support in order to happen. From all I've seen and heard from surrounding neighborhoods on this one, it's obvious this one does not have support, and in fact is causing quite the opposite reaction.

Valid points.

Sugarlandcitizen: Pearland's on its way to becoming a major area too. But Pearland won't allow much zoning for multi-family housing. Southern Houston (Sterling, Worthing, and Madison high school attendance zones) is an easy location as the infrastructure and schools have plenty of room for expansion. Placing it near METRO routes will make it easy for the population to get around to grocery stores, convenience stores, and other places. Residents who have more motivated children will get free HISD bus transportation to the magnet schools.

Unlike the northeast Fort Bend area, residents won't be as likely to oppose a development along Scott (towards Woodson K-8), Fuqua, Almeda-Genoa, Almeda, Mykawa, Orem, MLK, etc.

According to this http://hrc-ic.tdhca.state.tx.us/hrc/Vacanc...SearchResults.m the 77047 zip code, which has Law Elementary (HISD), only has one apartment complex funded by the TDHCA. That complex is the Alta Gardens Apartments at 3525 South Sam Houston Pkwy. East. (Zoned to Law ES, Woodson MS, and Worthing HS) - It has 9 vacancies out of the 48 one bedroom, 107 two bedroom, and 85 three bedroom units. Sobti, this place may need more apartments. It is so easy to build out here at 77047.

I realize that unlike Houston, Sugar Land has a pretty good grasp on it's zoning but things can change. Also, what about the areas immediately outside of the incorporated city that will someday probably be a part of SL? Probably unnecessary worry but I'd rather not take any chances thank you. Still would love to see P&R.

Yes, P&R should be the starting point for SL, and it would be wonderful for the city. I would encourage your neighbors to make a petition to become a METRO member city so a P&R could happen. I'm listing small METRO member cities, which include Katy and some Clear Lake/Bay Area cities.

All of the local proposals I thought of would be firmly in the city limits. Having service only to Schlumberger, the airport, and city hall would not involve the unincorporated areas. For some reason METRO only serves unincorporated areas in Harris County.

Probably not. It's pretty low-density.

Is it low density in terms of businesses?

From my understanding, compared to similarly-sized cities in METRO, it is not as dense, but it is denser than some of the cities.

In 2000 Stafford had 15,681 people. It has 7 square miles of land. That is 2,240 people per square mile.

Small METRO member cities from most to least dense:

*Southside Place had 1,546 people. It has .2 square miles of land. That is 7,730 people per square mile.

*West University Place had 14,211 people. It has 2 square miles of land. That is 7105.5 people per square mile.

*El Lago had 3,075 people. It has .7 square miles of land. That is 4,393 people per square mile.

*Bellaire had 15,642 people. It has 3.6 square miles of land. That is 4,345 people per square mile.

*Taylor Lake Village had 3,694 people. It has 1.2 square miles of land. That is 3,078 people per square mile.

*Spring Valley Vilage had 3,611 people. It has 1.3 square miles of land. That is 2,778 people per square mile.

*Hedwig Village had 2,334 people. It has .9 square miles of land. That is 2,593 people per square mile.

*Bunker Hill Village had 3,654 people. It has 1.5 square miles of land. That is 2,436 people per square mile.

*Hilshire Village had 720 people. It has .3 square miles of land. That is 2,400 people per square mile.

*Hunters Creek Village had 4,374 people. It has 1.9 square miles of land. That is 2,302 people per square mile.

*Piney Point Village had 3,380 people. It has 2.1 square miles of land. That is 1,610 people per square mile.

*Humble had 14,579 people. It has 9.8 square miles of land. That is 1,488 people per square mile.

*Katy had 11,775 people. It has 10.7 square miles of land. That is 1,110 people per square mile.

Would that mean that SGR would have to comply with TSA standards? That could increase their operating budget pretty immensely, whereas right now you can just walk in, meet the owner or pilot in the lounge (who has already worked out fees with the front desk), and go hop in the plane, hassle-free.

How do the economics of charter flights compare to commercial service? I'd think that it would work pretty well for large groups, but that offering them to individuals from the general public would be too low-volume to justify the kind of overhead (especially advertising) necessary to support it.

I'm not entirely sure about the specifics of what requires FAA-mandated security. In the 1990s Conquest operated Fairchild Swearingen Metroliners; each can carry up to 19 passengers. I'm sure that the FAA required security at Sugar Land airport for the Conquest flights. I'm don't know if the security in 2009 for a similar American Eagle ERJ-135s, ERJ-145s, or ATR72s (whichever is best for the route) would be substantially different than the security for Conquest Metroliners in the 1990s.

Chronicle comments are the worst... even worse than YouTube comments I think.

Be sure to report bad Chron comments - Personal attack posts get deleted if they are reported.

And if there's a single factor that should be especially compelling, it is that the CEO and other key decision makers very often don't live in central Houston, and if they can get away with it, they'll tend to prefer officing close to home.

Sometimes the actual headquarters are located away from the company's major "employment center." United Airlines used to be headquartered in suburban Elk Grove Township, IL. But around 2006 the company's top executives moved to the Chicago Loop (their Downtown). United still has many of its employees in Elk Grove Township. It's just that the top executives aren't there anymore.

...ok then. Stafford will serve as an example in place of Missouri City.

Speaking of Stafford, do you think it would make sense for Stafford to join METRO as well? It is so inter-connected with Houston and Missouri City, both of which are METRO member cities.

Don't count on it.

If Sugar Landers know that this won't cause more low income housing to appear (due to extensive development within the SL city limits and the lack of zoning for multi-family complexes), then I'm sure there would be more people in favor of this.

I think the City of Sugar Land should try to attract limited commercial airline service to its airport, especially if the economy improves.

Maybe American Eagle could fly from Sugar Land to Dallas/Fort Worth.

I know back in the early 1990s that Conquest Airlines used to fly to Sugar Land (I think from Austin). Nowadays companies have relocated to Sugar Land and there is higher yielding (i.e. profitable) traffic in the area.

If AA chooses to do this it should make sure that the service is still economically competitive with Continental and Southwest services to Dallas from the other airports.

Likewise, Missouri City isn't part of METRO, but that isn't preventing demographic change for the worse.

Missouri City doesn't get a lot of METRO service, but it is officially a METRO member city: http://www.ridemetro.org/AboutUs/Default.aspx

But you illustrate the mentality of the typical Sugar Land voter. That is why METRO will never happen in Sugar Land, nor will a Sugar Land-only transit system ever provide bi-directional service into and out of Houston. Even if it were good for the commercial areas (which I would dispute, myself), Sugar Land is restrained by its voters...a problem that The Woodlands Development Corporation has no issue with, because they control everything.

That is until this thread, and the city-data thread, educate Sugar Landers about the possibilities of having a P&R in Sugar Land.

NO Metro in SL please. Next there will be low income housing and before you know it, SL will be facing the same crime problems as Houston. This is why SL opted out of Metro to begin with. I'll settle for a park and ride.

Erm, I don't see how that computes. In order for Sugar Land to get more low income housing, city hall would have to rezone whatever land is left for multi-family housing. That wouldn't happen.

Therefore adding METRO to Sugar Land wouldn't cause an abundance of low income housing to appear.

If you recall the thread about Sobti's proposed development, that is regarding an unincorporated part of northeast Fort Bend, not something within the Sugar Land city limits. Sobti's development would be at 16827 Old Richmond Road; that is outside of the Sugar Land city limits, as the map shows:

Sugar Land has its zoning maps available here: http://svrch15.sugarlandtx.gov/website/zoning/viewer.htm

On City Data forums, this is what I proposed:

* Extend the U.S. 59 corridor Park and Ride services to Schlumberger and Sugar Land City Hall

* A local service going from Sugar Land City Hall -> Schlumberger -> Sugar Land Airport -> Sugar Land City Hall (and the reverse)

* A local service following the U.S. 59 corridor to connect Sugar Land City Hall and Schlumberger with southwest Houston

The above I propose would be entire in the Sugar Land city limits when being in Fort Bend County.

Lunatic, how many Sugar Land residents work in Westchase? Would there be enough to justify a park and ride going to Westchase as well?

I must also add a factor that would be in favor of having this development in southern Houston; The WaterLights District in Pearland will have some office buildings and retail. While WaterLights is in Pearland, it's in the northernmost part. I think WaterLights will be in Harris County and in Houston ISD; I'll have to check the maps for it to see if it is on the other side of the county line.

Those working at those companies you listed chose to work there, therefore make the choice to drive to their work. I doubt many who live in Sugar Land would use a Sugar Land specific bus service. I would be willing to guess that only an extensive METRO route would have any ridership, and it would probably only be the blue collar service employees that work in those buildings that would be traveling from outside Sugar Land to go to work - and not any Sugar Land residents.

In that case, maybe the first steps of public transport would be to add a park and ride and to serve blue collar service workers at those companies, city hall, and possibly at the airport too.

I think it's time for Sugar Land, Texas to get public transportation.

With Minute Maid being headquartered there, Schlumberger with significant offices there, and with other businesses moving in, Sugar Land is becoming a city of its own. For the convenience of its residents it needs public transportation.

But the question is: How to do it.

*Should Sugar Land join METRO? Or should it found its own transit agency?

*Should the high schools within the city limits (Clements, Dulles, Kempner) be served by transit stops?

*Should the libraries in the city limits (Sugar Land, Mamie George, First Colony) be served?

*Should the airport be served?

*How should it connect with services to Houston and Missouri City?

*Should it convince Stafford, TX to join the agency that it is a part of?

Not everyone that lives in Cypress works inside the loop. Even for Cypress, an average three-hour commute is pretty ridiculous.

Yes, as the HP corridor probably employs a lot of Klein ISD and Cypress-Fairbanks ISD residents. Also the part of 290 inside the Beltway has the headquarters for Luby's.

I think some of the complaints by the Fort Bend County neighborhoods are legitimate. AFAIK the schools around Austin High are already overcrowded, so a large Section 8 complex would increase the severity of traffic and school overcrowding around that area. On the other hand parts of southern Houston are semi-rural with open pastures with cows and horses grazing. A section 8 complex along Scott, Orem, Airport, or Fuqua in the Worthing, Sterling, or Madison zones won't overwhelm the area neighborhoods. Also remember that the Madison HS zone will get a new K-8, so there will be room for more residents there.

Having said that, the City of Sugar Land needs some public transportation as it hosts headquarters (Minute Maid) and large offices (Schlumberger) of several major companies, and their workers need transportation. Either it starts its own transit agency, or it joins METRO.

Oh nooooooooo! Not the poor with their black people, and METRO, and rap music, and Mex-uh-cans, and thugs, and stupid kids who will make school bad for my precious little angel! Take them along with the homeless people and give them a one way ticket to Dallas!

But they built one in Sugar Land. And it's expanding I think...

Don't forget about Cinco Ranch. Also U of H has an entire graduate program in Clear Lake.

I like having the MetroRail because I don't like the idea of paying money for parking in Downtown or the Medical Center. When I go Downtown to explore the area or to take photos of stuff I park near the Smith Lands Station and take the MetroRail to Downtown.

Also at times I use the train to go to the bus station to take the bus to the city where I attend university.

Sobti should consider building his housing in far southern Houston in the Worthing, Sterling, or Madison high school attendance zones - there is an abundance of land out there. In addition HISD is building a new middle school in the Madison attendance zone.

Some of the complaints regarding the Old Richmond Road area are that the schools are expanding too quickly over there. In southern Houston the area is developing at a slower pace, so it would be easier on the population.

Some other low and medium income developments are being proposed for southern Houston. Corinthian Pointe, a development of homes in southern Houston which was backed by the Windsor Village United Methodist Church, is discussed here: http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=5971

I must also add another reason why it makes more sense to have this development in southern Houston than in Sugar Land: METRO. METRO has routes in southern Houston, as you can see on this map: http://www.ridemetro.org/SchedulesMaps/Pdf...-System-Map.pdf

For the 2009 list of new construction let me list the units and the schools they are tied to, organized by district. This doesn't include places referred to as Senior Residences.

Houston ISD

* Floral Garden - Northeast quadrant of Beltway 8 and Fondren

** Fondren ES, Welch MS, Madison HS

*** There is a new K-8 that will absorb some of Dowling's population. I do not know if the new MS boundary will include Floral Garden

* Irvington Court - 4004 Irvington Boulevard

** Looscan ES, Marshall MS, Davis HS

* Orem Ranch - West side of 12500 block of Almeda Road

** Petersen ES, Dowling MS, Madison HS

* South Acres Ranch II - East side of 11400 Block of Scott Street

** Rhoads ES, Woodson MS, Worthing HS

Cypress-Fairbanks ISD

* Cypress Creek at Keith Harrow - Southwest corner of Keith Harrow at Highway 6

** Lieder ES, Watkins MS, Cypress Lakes HS

* Eldridge Oaks (?) - Along Eldridge Parkway North of FM 529

* Greenhouse Place - West Road @ Greenhouse Road

** Postma ES, Smith MS, Cypress Springs HS

* Mariposa at Keith Harrow - Southwest corner of Keith Harrow at Highway 6

** Lieder ES, Watkins MS, Cypress Lakes HS

* Trebah Village - South side of 1900 block of West Little York

Fort Bend ISD

* Fondren Ranch - The 15800 Block of Fondren at the Fort Bend Tollway

Klein ISD

* Ashton Park - About 14520 Wunderlich Road

Katy ISD

* Mason Apartment Homes - Along Mason Road between Franz and Morton

Spring ISD

* Mariposa at Ella Blvd - .1 mile Southeast of Southridge Road on Ella Boulevard

---

And some buildings that are proposed to undergo rehabilitation - including Re-Construction -- for low income residents:

Aldine ISD

* Arbor Court Apartments - 802 Seminar Drive

** deSantiago EC/PK, Calvert ES, Marcella IS, Teague MS, Nimitz HS

Cypress-Fairbanks ISD

* Windfern Pointe Apartments - 9515 West Gulf Bank Rd

** Post ES, Cook MS, Jersey Village HS

North Forest ISD

* Ley Roads Villas - 7600 East Houston

We need to get Kim to do what we want, not vice versa.

If he doesn't do what we want, we pour propaganda leaflets into his country and/or make annoying radio broadcasts. If he does what we want, the propaganda stops coming into North Korea.

I'd have to imagine that these new commuter buses allow you to stow your luggage in the holds below - which makes more sense logistically, than attempting to board a train at multiple stops with the same amount of luggage in tow.

The Narita Express trains between Tokyo and Narita Airport have overhead bins for luggage and other luggage storage areas.

According to HAR, the price range for homes in Park Pointe is $139-204K, so I'd be willing to bet that "sugarlandcitizen" doesn't really live there. I would also imagine that most Park Pointe residents are aware that they are zoned to Austin High School, not Kempner.

According to these maps Park Pointe is zoned to:

* Lakeview ES: http://www.fortbend.k12.tx.us/cmf/var/tidb...080818_1302.pdf

* Garcia MS: http://www.fortbend.k12.tx.us/cmf/var/tidb...080818_1304.pdf

* Austin HS: http://www.fortbend.k12.tx.us/cmf/var/tidb...080818_1305.pdf

Goldshire Townhomes would be at 16827 Old Richmond Rd. According to FBISD's zone tool: http://zonemaps.fortbend.k12.tx.us/edulog/webquery/ it would be zoned to Oyster Creek ES, Garcia MS, and Austin HS.

These maps and the tool confirm what JRC said.