arche_757

Well, the CN tower is impressive but I wouldn't exactly call it beautiful.  In my opinion the Space Needle is the only one of these sort of things that's remotely attractive.

I see what you're saying...  I think something like this would be best in an area where it wouldn't be surrounded by a bunch of other buildings almost as tall (if not taller - JP Morgan and Chase Tower).  Why not on Main Street just north of the Museum of Fine Arts?  Would provide a nice view of the town and would be close to some other attractions of note?

We have a number of towers that are quite tall used for the purposes (or similar) of the CN in Toronto, down in Missouri City.  Observation towers like CN are probably a thing of the 1970s.

I've deleted what I originally posted to keep this from getting into yet another long drawn out argument between Slick Vic and Iron Tiger.

Sorry.

Don't like it.  The stone...  looks just terrible!

^How much is thru-traffic versus commuter/cross-town traffic?  That's the question.  Since we all know someone driving from San Antonio to New Orleans isn't going to stop and ride commuter rail/light rail/whatever rail through Houston.  That's not the target.

Punishing sprawl. Sounds good to me

I'm not advocating punishing anyone.

I'm saying "IF" this were to happen, I think what I have proposed (rather than tolls on all freeways) would perhaps be a better way to go.

This is not about punishing sprawl, hurting those who can't live inside the Loop, or causing people to have a mass suburban exodus - it is only about repairing the roads/bridges/tunnels/etc. through a tax of some sort.

Probably the easiest thing to do would be to simply increase the gas tax.  Not for any of these but if they happened because we have crumbling infrastructure then I can't argue that it isn't in the nations best interests.

That's not particularly good because the farther you commute out does not mean you're richer, otherwise we'd have more super-wealthy subdivisions in the far exclaves.

Didn't say that - never mentioned wealth.  Its just taxing people based on how far they commute.  And its not an exorbitant rate like the tolls would eventually be.  A flat - no frills tax that's easy to round and the money used only* for infrastructure repairs.

Presumably most River Oaks residents wouldn't ever pay tolls for the roads either.  So there's that.

No, there really is a HOK designed proposal for a 60 and a 79 story skyscraper in Dallas. They said it would be the tallest concrete structure west of the Mississippi so I'm pretty sure that would have to be a supertall..

But the developer (who is foreign) is doing just residential...  Would not make sense for a 79 floor residential tower to be taller than 1000'  Unless there is some decorative fin or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One57

One57 is a ~90 floor (apparently only 75) residential tower in NYC - where there is actually demand for that sort of building.  IT is only 1,004' tall.

Unless there is a significant office+hospitality component to this I don't see how it could work in Dallas' downtown right now.  And offices are out as there is a high vacancy rate there.

If anything the Toyota move to their downtown would have maybe driven this, but that's happening in Plano.

Oh well.  Good for Dallas.  Should fit their ego.  I'll take what we're getting instead.  Eventually the demand will be there for a taller residential building.

Well, Harris County Baker Street jail is 9 floors already.  I like the idea of maybe a two block 15 floor each jail.  Set aside another block for a future 20 or so floor addition.  In the mean time use it for something else?  Would be a much greater use of the land.  Again the problem is the County.  Although Harris County is pretty well off (so I've heard), perhaps they could be persuaded to selling that land and doing something else - a joint venture with the City of Houston?

Wouldn't that $1.75 be doubled for a two way trip? As far as the rest of your post, fair enough.

I thought I did?

$1.75 x 2 = $3 per day

$3 x 5 = $15 per week

$15 x 4 = $60 per month

$60 x 12 = $720 a year

That's just a single toll plaza exchange on the North Sam Houston tollway.  Some on-ramps have a lower charge of $0.75 per axle.  And there are some free on-ramps (quite a few in fact).

In all likelihood the average Houston tollroad user spends $1000 a year... if all freeways were pay for use then I would expect that number (in the early years) would be double that at around $2000.  Eventually it would increase in cost and eventually it would reduce the number of people who would drive on those freeways.

Something that might be easier to implement:  A workplace toll.  The government would ask employers to simply take out an additional tax (like social security, medicare, federal income tax) that would charge people a fee off of how far removed from work they are.  Those fees would be nonexistent for people who live 5 miles from work.  10 miles out they would be $100 a year, 15 $150 a year, 20 $200 a year and so on.  Maybe that's the way to go?  Those fees would then be used strictly for road/bridge/infrastructure repairs.  The less you drive and use infrastructure the less you would pay for them.  Maybe you get a sort of tax refund if you use transit?  Just a thought.  Not sure what others might think of that?

This. Working from home is only an option for a small set of individuals. I also think that $700 is an understated number. What if you have to pay a toll to get on and off a ramp? Those have to be added in. Then the price of gas, maintenance, insurance, registration, and the fact that every mile you drive your car is closer to its end. And the purchase of the car in the first place. Putting additional tolls on all this will change behavior.

The $700 figure was what I used for when I travel on the toll road from I-45 to 290.  There is one plaza, one toll.  It is $1.75.  Sure there are other fees that other drivers pay, but generally the tolls are set up so most only pay the one plaza fee + maybe an on ramp fee.

Its not the biggest figure, but its a fine enough figure to do the math.  Multiply it x 2 or 3 and then run the figures again and I'll still wager the number won't be enough of an impact to really change things very much.

I see you glazed right over my point earlier about my work commute + the commute of my wife.  Right now she is 3 miles from work (probably almost* an idyllic number for many) and I'm 25 miles from my work.  If we moved closer to my work she would be further... which would result in zero gain on anything commute+mileage wise.  There are likely many people that have similar work options where one partner works fairly close while another commutes.  It is not ideal, but it is realistic.

I understand where you are coming from Slick - I do - you and I agree on transit and the desire for an overall denser city.  I don't think we see eye-to-eye on the idea of livability.  As someone who used to SCREAM that its the urban way or the highway I can see both sides very clearly.  I used to insist that I would never live outside the Loop.  Life happens, reality changes perception and while the Inner Loop is still great and the epicenter of all things in this whole region, I've been faced with working elsewhere and having to become one of "them" and locate myself outside the core.

^It would make the most sense to move HPD and the jails, however those are county jails, not city.  Probably cheaper to build a new jail complex than retrofit a post office, which really isn't all that big considering those jails hold 9,000 inmates.

I'd also like to see Franklin gone from the north side of the Bayou.  No need.  Just use Preston and go ahead and run Washington back across the Bayou and connect onto Commerce Street.

Franklin would likely be re-worked somehow - perhaps even removed.  Considering the scale of the work being talked about on here its easy to see a street changing quite a bit to accomodate something.  I mean we're talking about MOVING all the county jails+private jails+digging a canal between White Oak and Buffalo Bayou.  Versus removing 400' of street that's probably in bad shape anyway overhanging part of Buffalo Bayou... which one sounds easier to you.

Those jails aren't going any where.  If put to a vote - voters aren't going to approve spending $200 million on new jails given the age of the ones we have already.  Plus the buildings off Top St are private jails (I do believe).

Obviously the site at the "bend" is far better frontage - but its not up for sale - the post office is.

Stairs are cheap, and they've been done elsewhere along the Bayou recently.

This is the site - right?

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=29.765514,-95.36342&spn=0.008885,0.010836&t=h&z=17

I'm saying that a lot of people already spend $700+ a year on tolls and it doesn't seem to matter much.  That's all.  I agree for quite a few that will be the tipping poing, but I doubt that it will cause a mass exodus to the core or next to other major job centers.

^^ Completely agree with your comments.

I think that it's also interesting that very few of our conversations regarding transit on this forum include either work from home or independent businesses which are two of the fastest growing trends in the country. The number of people that work from home is much higher than the number of people that use mass transit and is growing much faster as well. There's also a rapidly growing sector of independent business people that don't follow traditional commute patterns.

Those are both patterns that are likely to continue to grow as technology improves. I think that it's highly likely that the biggest result of tolls on roads would be an increase of 4/40 and 9/80 work plans, both of which have huge implications on transportation planning.

I think you bring up some great points... We will witness in the next decade a sharp rise in home based offices as telecom advances have allowed us to work/live/play differently.  Imagine an ipad (or similar) with 500gb or 1tb?  Think of that.

I can easily see my work - small architectural firm - running a work out of home style business a couple days a week if transit became such a hassle.  Outside of office updates and the occasional call (which could be easily re-routed to cell or home lines) I don't really need to be in the office every day.  I imagine there are quite a few businesses like this out there as well.

Personally I wouldn't mind it.  Even a reduction of just 1 day at work would be a nice savings for me on the car.  The trick is accountability.  If employees would and can work well from home and accomplish what needs to be done, then that's possible, otherwise I think we may see a sharp decline in productivity.

Would more people ride a train than a bus is not a simple question, it's a simplistic question.

You state that there will be a time that the density will be there and the demand will be high enough. I agree with that point related to heavy rail, but the capacity question regarding BRT and LRT is much more of a debate as most real world numbers attest.

You make several statements that I think would require much more detailed discussion than you attribute in your statement. I totally agree with you about setting aside ROW, but if demand isn't sufficient today to support a line, I would suggest that it's entirely appropriate to identify when demand will be sufficient and target construction to be closer to that timeframe. If demand in a corridor isn't projected to be sufficient to require rail for 30 years as an example, wouldn't it make more sense to set aside ROW now and have that line ready for use in 25 years which would still be well before the time that the projected demand exists?

I also question the statement that we need to build now because it will cost so much in the future. That's a huge economic assumption that doesn't consider inflation, long term interest costs, potential technology improvements, and operating losses that occur due to unused capacity during the interim. It also ignores whether it's the best current use of the money. I think that we all agree that there are large opportunity for improvement in current METRO coverage. Why should METRO divert money that could be used to improve current usage to fund projected future demand that may not be required for decades? Why not budget for future construction at the appropriate time?

I think that these are all reasonable questions to ask rather than just saying more people will ride rail than buses. Of course, these all assume that a government agency is capable of making rational long term decisions and that might be the most questionable assumption of all.

1) It is a simple question... but I think one could even informally take a poll (on here) if people would rather ride rail or bus.

2) Setting aside ROW (that process could take years in and of itself) is a good idea.  I doubt that density will take 30 years (that would be 2044) to get there in the areas where I'm thinking - and I'm speaking mostly of inner Beltway areas.

3) Well, like I've said in however many posts I've made about this subject... building now (meaning start setting aside land/row/whatever start the design process, then getting bids for construction, then starting construction) will take years to progress.  That's why I want to start now in some areas.  The university line (for example) down Richmond or where ever needs to be done, but that process (to do it correctly) should and will take many years to achieve.

4) Higher density = higher property costs, which is not always true but generally a given.  I don't see an event that will happen in the future of this country that will make things cheaper in regards to construction costs/land costs etc.  If that event does happen we probably aren't worried about getting to and from job centers as much as we are simply worried about jobs, or health and home.

Again ***and I stress this emphatically*** any worthwhile transit line, whether it is bus or rail, should take at the least half a decade to design and implement (rail will obviously take longer).  I am not advocating that we go out in June and spend $2 billion.  I'm saying that the process needs to - no must - begin as soon as possible.  Phase it out if need be.  Study the heck out of it, but study it.  Right now I'm guessing there's a little room somewhere in METROs HQ that has 4 peons working on this, where they ought to have 40.  The way I see it we won't have a fully system until 2044 - but I'll wager we will need it well before that.

We need one of these things to grow some legs! Dallas is about to beat us to the punch haha

How so?

A 70 floor residential tower is hardly a supertall.  I think Austin has a 60 or 65 floor tower.  And the developer being foreign doesn't inspire a lot of confidence.  Besides that Dallas has A LOT of housing next to Downtown (more than Houston) in the adjacent Uptown area.  Why would you want to be in a big tower Downtown when the amenities are so much better just a few blocks away?  Houston is a different animal than Dallas - both can handle a lot of development - but neither town is going to build a supertall just for hospitality and residential.  It will take a large office portion too.

Here's food for thought: Even with a daily toll of $1.75 just to go through one of the Sam Houston Tollways stations (on the main road) x 2 = $3 a day x 5 = $15 a week x 4 = $60 a month x 12 = $720 a year spent on tolls... and the drivers using the tollways have only increased.

That's one tollway.  Presumably if all major freeways were to be tolled then there would be likely a rate decrease in the cost of every toll?  At least initially.  I wouldn't think the totals for driving through these areas would break the bank.

The problem with implementing something like this in Houston... we have umpteen on ramps - far more so than any other city - which honestly is a good thing and traffic progressive I think.  So imagine placing tag stations or pay station all over?  And I would expect the true impact of this would be on the lower income drivers, forcing them onto the side streets and alternate routes - and on transit (to an extent).  I would doubt the initial program would cause transit ridership to jump dramatically.

To Slick Vic's point that people would be forced to move closer to work - either in or out of town - I think that's false.  $720 - $1400 a year on tolls is way lower than buying a new home and moving (assuming people could even move).  I commute about 25 miles or so each way every day - its a little longer than I would like, but the traffic isn't bad at all.  I would possibly move closer except my wife works very close to where we live, so there's a trade off...  I can't move closer without forcing my wife further away from her work.  In the end the move would be a zero-sum-game for us.  She could take a different job, or I could, but still its doubtful we would ever really work within a 5 mile radius of each other.  And that's today's working world.  Gone is the American Nuclear Family version where triumphant bread-winner Dad drives the family car to work in a tower Downtown while Mom stays home and manages the house.

I was going to say I read the Taipei times and it clearly stated "OR" not both.  So my guess is Chicago first - bigger airport, closer to more people.  Though Houston is a different region so maybe we would get the first new flights?

A wonder they are being allowed to proceed that way!

Found the Rossonian!

Built in 1911!  Love this little building and would have made a great hotel or nice condo conversion if it still was around in Downtown.

I think - not certain - that it had a roof top garden of sorts?

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/print-edition/2011/01/28/high-rise-apartment-buildings-were.html?page=all

Unfortunately, this one is not happening. The "Available Summer 2014" sign gone; for sale sign up.

Really?  They've opened up the back of the 6 floor addition.   I work nearby and I'll have to walk by later and see what it looks like is going on.

Last I heard it was going to be time shares.  83 of them.  So that averages out to around 700 sq ft per unit (roughly) as the Building is 80,000 sq ft - minus the 6,000 sq ft retail on the ground floor and assuming around 10,000 sq ft of the building is circulation space+mechanical?