nucklehead

I dont think people are moving there solely because of the arts district.

In other words, Trae, if you choose to buy a condo today you have the freedom to do so. In the future, that freedom will go away as they will be the ones to choose who buys the remaining condos. So, the demand is plentiful.

There was an article yesterday on the increased demand for office space in the Art's District. Figure that future demand could squeeze available space causing buildings to be built higher in that vicinity. It does look like the premium area in Central Dallas will be considered around the Arts District. This does not bode well for the Victory or Harwood projects to the south.

It was a great middle school quip, wasn't it?

Actually, the only REAL parkway is this one...

Blue Ridge Parkway

That sure is a pretty highway. What are all those ugly green things on the side of the road?

Last I heard, Museum Tower is stalled, too. Dallas has a huge oversupply in condos. Something like 18 months right now.

No way the Museum Tower won't be built. They are portioning out the privileges to own one for a limited time. They are expected to be bought up by people from all around the world because of the Arts District. Figure that phenomenon alone could build and sell out a few more condominium projects around that district as momentum continues to build around the opening of the new Art's District expansion.

I assure you no one is crying in Houston these days. Do you know how many mixed use developments AND tall buildings are under construction or in the planning stages for Houston? Go do a check around the internet. You are the one who will be crying when all is said and done. Our beautiful 'one industry' city has stood tall through oil booms and oil busts and continues to thrive. Every time you fill up your car you are adding another floor to our skyline. As a proud Houstonian, I thank you for your continued support.

It must be like a thorn in the side Dallas. Dallas will never reign Queen of Texas as long as Houston exist. NEVER!

Plus, never mind my silly (and mostly light hearted) insults going in your direction. I seriously think you are quite mad. Either that or you are going for some kind of trolling award I haven't heard of. Whatever your story is, it is quite obvious that you are completely obsessed with Houston. I don't blame you. It's a very exciting place to be. Unlike DFW who's boom has come and gone without anyone in the nation even knowing about it.

BTW, I love how this thread that was supposed to be about Dallas and Fort Worth has turned into another thread about Houston by someone living in Dallas. It is a great example of how obsessed the DFWers are with Houston.

Great post! The city of Houston should be proud of the pride you have in the city of Houston while the businesses in Houston should be proud of the pride you have in Houston businesses. I'd really like to go back to Galveston one day. In my opinion, that is the one thing Houston has that Fort Worth doesn't. Thousands of resort hotel and motel rooms along the beaches of Galveston.

Getting back to the city of Fort Worth. In my opinion, it should be more worried about the pocket Hercules of Irving -- Las Colinas. When this area goes through an economic expansion, it adds an area in development greater than Uptown. That would be over 10 million square feet of space and countless housing and apartments. I mean, why does Fort Worth only worry about downtown Dallas? It is about to get squashed by Las Colinas even further. I guess that is a question I need to ask the person who started this thread.

Like downtown Fort Worth, downtown Dallas is not an expanding office market. What Uptown has built recently in office space downtown Dallas has lost even more over the last 20 years. The real expanding business districts in DFW are Las Colinas, the Platinum corridor and the Telecom corridor.

Also consider the area that has been added onto Las Colinas eastern side that is larger in size to that of downtown Dallas. This would be the land which is going to be gained when the Cowboys vacate Texas Stadium. That is going to become a great lead in development to the massive business district Las Colinas will become (4 billion in private investment in TODs).

(Look, I am bullish on Las Colinas. Not Central Dallas. Please get that straight. Central Dallas while it is doing fine now just isn't an expanding market. The politics in that area go to hell any time someone just uses the N word. That black cat (this would be the black panthers) is always ready to pounce over the Trinity. And now Chico Hernandez is intent on wearing his sombrero down Cesar Chavez Boulevard. So, why do you keep pestering me? I think downtown Dallas sucks when compared to downtown Houston. Now I do think downtown Houston sucks when compared to Las Colinas, but we aren't talking Las Colinas. We are talking downtown Fort Worth. So, can we please get along. Like the great Rodney King once said himself, "Can't we all just get along?")

The Dallas Morning News had a similar story I believe not too long ago.

I think Uptown is a bubble that burst during the Industrial Blvd. political scandal and the Hispanics, African Americans and Anglos living in and around Central Dallas are the ones who will have to pay as a consequence. There is a lot of stress on all the developments of course but the metropolitan area generally explodes out of recessions.

Uptown has been a vacuum lately where it seems not much has been happening outside of it. But that anomaly just can't continue to happen and I think developers have come to realize this. There is just too much development going on in DFW as a whole to justify the spread out development in Uptown also. The development is going to have to be focussed in the future and that will probably be the area of the new expanded Art's District. Proof of this is the 42 story Museum tower that is still going up as planned while Victory had to throw in the towel on its planned tower of equal size. Perhaps Victory will become the new stalled Reunion development in the future?

i guess the chronicle article here was wrong. it clearly said dallas was having problems populating a tod. did you see anything similar there?

No. The article wasn't wrong. They are probably having problems but I would never bet against the real estate industry in DFW. It is just relentless when it comes to figuring out how to do something right. They do have the idea formula established in Mockingbird Station. The Park Lane development will probably find similar success according to ravings about it.

Central Expressway is actually somewhat of a gamble because of the huge population of people who live along it between Central Dallas and the Telecom area in Richardson. This creates failure because most residents living in the TOD don't even ride the transit because of the seediness of some of the underling population.

This type of a huge population does not exist between Central Dallas and Las Colinas, however. When driving from DFW airport to downtown Dallas along 114, I only saw houses once outside of the new housing that is being developed in Las Colinas. It is just a 15 mile stretch of warehouses, hotels, hospitals, market hall buildings and office buildings. So, this improves the chances of the TODs succeeding along this corridor when compared to Central Expressway because most of the future traffic expected to ride on this line will come from TODs that are as of yet unbuilt.

To be honest, I think politics more than anything doom the TODs in the city of Dallas. Any developer in his or her right mind should not trust a city that is allergic to the word "Industrial."

last time i was there, the tod i passed was empty.

A TOD can't mature if after it is completed it fills up. I don't think Mockingbird Station started off considered to be the best TOD in the nation. It had to mature some.

Look, one has to wonder what Las Colinas is going to look like when its many billions of dollars of private investment in TODs are completed. Las Colinas started off as an office park -- with pictures of its expected appearance looking something like Hong Kong -- before it evolved into the kind of business district it is today -- urban type apartment development. Now it is evolving again into a different kind of urban animal. Whatever that animal looks like, it is going to be massive and unique.

no gpc is required to eat menudo.

Did you happen to notice the topic? The topic deals with yet another planned TOD in Dallas. What is that now? 8 billion in private investment in completed and planned TODs in DFW? I think it could be more than that. What is the expected population of 3000 apartments? 4,500? Maybe more? This is south of downtown Dallas. In the near future, one can see the whole area around downtown Dallas as well developed. These people here would certainly help the retail develop in downtown Dallas which too is gaining a sizable after hours population.

whitney houston has more sense than you do

I learned the definition of ad hominem in Community College. 2.50 GPA. Ahem.

From the Dallas City Hall Blog:

It's comforting to know that we don't have the market cornered on moronic public officials.

After reading all of these wonderful posts in this thread, beloved forum members, I had an idea. Why not start a policy of banning certain offensive sounding words? For example, rather than we use the word "bigger," which sounds a lot like the "N" word when mumbled, we could require that forum members use the word "larger" instead.

So, rather than a person saying something like "Yes, @##hole, the buildings in Houston are bigger than the ones in Dallas!" -- which would get them immediately banned -- they would say "Yes, @##hole, the buildings in Houston are larger than the ones in Dallas!" -- which is quite appropriate.

Another problem word is the foul sounding "chigger," which is a southern itching bug that also sounds a lot like the "N" word. In this instance we could just say "itching bug" instead.

"Momma! A chigger is sucking on my testicles!" -- immediate banning.

"Momma! An itching bug is sucking on my testicles!" -- appropriate.

"Post hole digger" is yet another nasty sounding choice of words because the phrase sounds both like the word "Ho," which is a word that is offensive to even white women; while, the word "digger" just sounds too much like the "N" word in all its manifested hidiousness.

When going to Jackson Mississippi to purchase a bigger post hole digger with my friend Chigger, I am always extremely mindful of my speech impediment.

Here is a significant TOD planned for the south of downtown Dallas. It is expected to be established next to the Cedars Station.

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthre...98130&conly=

Gas Fields have Headquarters? OK then...

Too bad it's ran by East Coast Yankees (Chesapeake Energy ((the ugly Bush daughter's Hubby works there as an MBA turd)).

Sellouts...

The gas fields just popped up at the perfect time. It will help DFW airport as there is gas underneath it also. My ex (All my Mexican exes live in Fort Worth) receives a royalty check for her property of $200.00 and she will do so for the next 20 years. How can that not be a tremendous boon for the Tarrant county economy which sits at the heart of the gas field?

I'd love to know where the nucklehead gets his info. Never mind, I think I just saw Fluffy dropping a load of it in the backyard.

I have a quest in here. While you just insult, which is fine with me, my plan is to make you cry because the mixed use projects in Dallas are far wider than Houston's buildings are tall.

I assume you are a stranger to the DFW area being that you live in the Houston area. This is normal because the distance between Dallas and Houston is probably further than the distance between New York City and Boston. If not, who cares? Anyway, DFW creates industries and spins them off fairly quick. All of the sudden it looks like downtown Dallas might once again regain its designation of the financial capital of the southwest while Fort Worth, as was just mentioned, has become headquarters for the second largest gas field in North America.

The industries in DFW are very subtle in how they emerge from no where overnight. Like the way the Telecom industry established itself in Richardson.

Not significant you say?

Imagine creating something of the size of the medical center in Houston in about 10 years? Granted TI and Collins Radio was already there as a base, but the vast majority of the total 25 million of high quality tech space was built in a fairly short period of time.

That is the benefit that the DFW area has in not being a one horse town like Houston but diversified in numerous industries.

the port ships a great deal more than "energy"

But a lot of refineries of assorted sizes are based along the port.

Something like 100 refineries exist in the Houston metropolitan area altogether. Those refineries bring in and ship out petrochemical products. Oil pipe comes into Houston just to be worked on. It will come into Houston from Japan to be worked on and finished before being shipped down to Latin America for example. It never leaves a duty free zone.

The port of Houston does ship other items besides energy products but energy is by far its bread and butter.

No disrespect, but how is Fort Worth the center for aerospace in Texas? The United Space Alliance and NASA Mission Control are based in Houston.

Oh, and I believe there is a larger natural gas field in Canada.

I can remember reading that more planes have been built in the DFW area than any place in the world. But I can't find the link so don't quote me on that.

I think Houston is energy, energy, energy, a really big hospital, energy, that NASA thing, energy, Galveston, energy, the garbage capital pickup of the world, a huge seaport that ships and unloads energy and, finally, the Galleria. Houston doesn't build rockets. It just helps rocket them into space.

In regards to your other comment, I guess Fort Worth is the headquarters for the largest natural gas field in North America outside of Canada. Adding on average royalties worth $200.00 a month to every residence in Tarrant county won't hurt so much during this next recession.

Greenspoint Mall is being converted into a giant mixed-use development.

Cool. That's exactly what needs to be done. I think the original design was "mixed abuse." Greenspoint won't ever be the equal to Las Colinas but that area plus the airport has always reminded me of something one might find in Dallas. It seems out of place down there in Houston.

Anyway, considering that it is the center of the aerospace industry in Texas and also the headquarters for the largest gas field in North America, Fort Worth isn't a suburb. I guess that is why this thread was started. One can argue also that Richardson / Plano / Addison / Farmer's Branch aren't typical suburbs with their large labor bases. Ditto Irving / Grapevine. Arlington too is approching half a million people. These urban types suburbs are different from the suburbs like Mesquite or Grand Prairie.

There are still a lot of businesses out at Greenspoint. Exxon Chemicals has a lot of people there.

Granted, the mall is lame. But that's the trend with malls today. They are all lame.

Okay. Yes, with Rankin Rd. getting built up. There has been a lot of infill since the oil depression. Granted. My point is the neglect left the area looking far less than its potential.

Perhaps Greenspoint mall needs to be buried so that 3 or 4 mix use developments can be built there?

You guess wrong.

See. You assume that I'm being negative. Are the people in here so used to arguing that they see every comment as negative? I used to live around Greenspoint. If the city hadn't neglected that part of town as they did, then it would probably look much different than it does now.

the fact that it had to be twice approved by the public tells me why it will fail.....because something will happen and it will need to be approved again.....and again....and then someone will find that something had changed between the last time it was approved and the time before that "and the public might not have been aware fo those changes when they last approved it" so they will need to tell everyone about those changes and then ask them to approve it again.....and then someone will want to change something else because they did not know things could be changed up after it was first approved....and someone else will want the public to approve the new changes as well.....but the public might all know about those changes when it gets approved again....and on and on it goes.....then there is a city election and new people get on the council.....all with their big egos and their desire for their area to get its cut

so far dallas has not even been able to approve the change in street name of a street filled with junk yards and vacant dump lots....there is a reason dallas is SURROUNDED by suburbs that are NOT A PART OF DALLAS.....because people that want common sense government flee dallas in droves....which leaves only the pork barrelers and the "my area" types and the no growth no new tax types

one thing I always loved about Houston.....you have to go a LONG WAY out in most cases to escape "Houston"......so people that care for the entire city are still around to vote common sense....which is why Houston had two venues and the GRB all downtown where they belong and help the whole city shine....VS other places

I am certain that the political absurdity you speak of really bothers investors in Uptown. That is one reason I am so bullish on the Las Colinas area becoming the next focal point of business in the future transplanting that of Central Dallas.

The way the city of Houston allowed the Greenspoint area to decay into Gunspoint was pathetic. I guess that is a weakness of not having any zoning laws.

the real issue between the two is that Dallas is land locked and last map I saw there was about a 100' wide path of land on the south side of dallas where dallas could sneek out of its current borders and grab more land for growth and that hole has probably been plugged now which means there is zero areas around dallas for dallas to annex more property....where as Fort Worth has multiple sides of its borders to annex and expand

so even if people wanted to live in dallas there is no where to escape the equally poor schools in dallas (which is why most move away) while Fort Worth can annex into areas with decent schools and continue to grow

and any river project for Fort Worth will be right in downtown while Dallas will be putting their river project (that will probably never get off the ground) over on the western edge of the city and hope people buy out old dumps and junk yards to start redevelopment....which is extremely difficult to do especially in a place like dallas where everyone demands their "cut" for their area before anything moves

After the Trinity project being approved twice by the public, do you really think its going to fail? I believe much of the project is already under way at any rate.

The tollway is going to take forever, yes. That could be endangered eventually but I think the city wants it more than anything else.

Fort Worth is just cool when compared to some of the snobbish areas of Dallas. I once tried to ask a Dallas biker for directions and almost got ran over. I happened to be camping at Joe Pool lake so, yes, I probably looked like a homeless man. The city of Dallas must have the worst homeless people in the world.

I must admit that a lot of Houston doesn't exhibit this type of snobbishness because of its many Bohemian neighborhoods where wealthy houses have been built next to middle class ones. A Doctor can be living next to a computer technician while the convenience store next to him is being robbed. The Uptown area of Dallas first started out as this kind of neighborhood but its now more like a gated community.

Today's posts have been unapproved. A reminder:

Respectful discussions only. My-city-is-better-than-your-city flame wars are not permitted on HAIF. "He started it" is not a valid excuse. Both parties in a flame war may have their accounts suspended or terminated. Just walk away. Flames will be deleted without notice. Please report violations to a member of the moderating team, or to the Editor.

Sorry. I try not to be flaming.

You know, the premise I was trying to argue was the distinction between a TOD like Park Lane and that of the more classical development. Then I happened to notice that it is a Houston company that is actually building the Park Lane project with a partner from Chicago. So, I think Houstonians need to come to terms with the reality of TODs. If the same phenomenon gets going strong in Houston, it won't be the size of the building but the size of the mixed used development.

Possum Kingdom Lake is over an hour west of Fort Worth buddy.

Five minutes in Rode Island is an hour in Texas. Look, I've lived in Texas my whole life. I've tried to visit other places but both times my pickup broke down. But, you know, I've never had to leave because Texas has everything. There is even talk of a lost glacier up in the Pan Handle. I've been to Possum Kingdom, son. Do you realize that its dam moved a couple of inches down the Brazos River? It has the clearest water in Texas. Like I said, the place is a paradise. As the crow flies, Possum Kingdom isn't that far from Fort Worth. One has to go an around about way to get to it.

Too bad they aren't moving to Las Colinas.

Moving to downtown is only temporary. They made that clear as a qualifier right after their announcement to relocate. So, their future headquarters has yet to be determined.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/business/5860371.html

Smart move by AT&T. Its not like being in San Antonio was bad for them, but moving to a much larger metropolitan area will definitely help them.

Cool for DFW. Wonder where they will locate.

The rule of thumb in DFW is:

#1: Las Colinas is the best location for a global headquarters with its convenience to DFW airport.

#2: Downtown Dallas is becoming the financial center for the Southwest again.

#3: Downtown Fort Worth is the headquarters for the largest gas field in North America.

#4: The Telecom corridor has the second largest concentration of telecommunications companies in the nation in 25 million square feet of high quality space.

#5: The platinum Corridor is a paradise of retail.

Moving to Fort Worth is out of the question while a move to any of the other four wouldn't surprise me in the least.

But I am really bullish on Las Colinas. When any company chooses to relocate there, it is just the smart thing to do.

This should give this area the boost that it needs to spruce the area up......What do you guys think?This is kinda old...but I didn't know if you guys knew about it. http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=7017 Click the link at the top of Ctroymathis' post to get full details....

The problem with large mixed use projects like this is that it is difficult to develop them during real estate cycles without trends altering events. The trend now is town centers and TODs while who knows what the trend will be during the next economic expansion. What is interesting is the huge base of retail in the area. Hmm . . ..