nucklehead

I can't stop laughing at this. I went out in the yard to do some yard work. Even though it is already 90 or so here, I chuckled to myself that since it is 105 in Dallas, nucklehead probably has nothing better to do than make up statistics and history on a Houston forum. Imagine my surprise when I sit down for a break and find you just wrote the same thing.

Against false statements, false statistics and false recollections of history, yes, yes it is.

No, but Houston has not had 25 consectutive years of nearly 30% office vacancy like Dallas has, so our developers have never been accused of being crazy. Conservative, yes. Crazy, no.

Okay. Maybe this will help explain why overbuilding isn't perceived as much of a problem in DFW as it is in Houston

The METROPOLITAN AREA of Houston lost population for 2 years back during the oil business depression (Well, the state of Texas did lose its major banks). For the longest time when the city of Houston was trying to pick back up steam, the suburb of Plano was out growing it. That isn't unstability but reality manifesting itself in a one industry town. You can't have your cake and eat it too. To live in an over heated economy, one must put up with busts from time to time. Those busts cause unhealthy glitches when comparing the Houston market to DFW's diversified economy. If the glitch lasts for five years in Houston while the population of DFW only slows to its conservative growth of 160,000 a year, that could increase DFW's population lead by as much as three quarters of a million (the conservative growth of 160,000 a year over 5 years added onto any amount that the Metropolitan area of Houston loses). This is why the DFW metropolitan area continues to get development even when it is already overbuilt while investors tend to be more careful in Houston.

How are those working out for ya?

The foreigners love the bronze statues because the old episodes of "Dallas" are still doing great around the world. Perhaps the modern world would rather watch a modern oil barron in an episode of "Houston" screw the world as J.R. once did? I had a hell of a time keeping my two sons from poking their eyes out on their horns. Then you have the unsightly bronzed cow manure to watch out for.

Nucklehead, do you not know why tamtagon said that? Ahem..."Mister Nifty" from DM.

Yes Trae. Let me say that you are stunningly beautiful. Can I use your picture as a background for my desk top?

For the love of God, stop it already!

I came to forums to leave the shallow chatrooms, Gary. Have you ever been to a chatroom? Do you think you are in a chatroom?

We already have one of those plazas/parks in front of our convention center. It will be completly surrounded by highrises in five years. It has proven to be quite successful.

And if you think what nucklehead is saying here is bad, go check him out at Dallas Metropolis. He has that whole site believing Dallas/Irving/DFW Airport, will steal most of Houston's oil companies and Continental Airlines because "they are not smart to be away from the big North American magnet". Something like that.

No. I said Exxon is based in Houston while its global headquarters is based in Las Colinas. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of the global operations of the oil companies in Houston chose to base their global operations in Las Colinas for the same reason. DFW IS the big magnet of North America because Las Colinas is becoming the premier business district in North America.

In the DFW metroplex, the pull towards DFW and Las Colinas is undeniable as it is a constant threat to get relocations from the other business districts. Any company in any industry could decide to relocate from the Metroplex to Las Colinas and it wouldn't be a shock to anyone. It always makes sense to relocate to Las Colinas. All the other business districts in DFW need gimmicks or subsidies just to compete.

Atlanta's airport, for example, doesn't have a pocket Hercules like Las Colinas built next to it. Atlanta just has a lot of flights and passengers flying in and out. The development that DFW airport has helped establish in and around its immediate area is far more significant than the numbers of flights and passengers that Atlanta's airport handles on a daily bases.

That's a real nifty point of view, mister.

Thanks. I guess you must agree then that a transition is taking place between Central Dallas and Las Colinas then? I do think the development that was happening in the whole of Uptown north of Downtown is about to be focussed in and around the Arts District area in the future as a result of the opening of its next phase. This will be followed by the building of the park plaza as its fronting certerpiece over the freeway at the heart of Central Dallas. I really do think the Victory and Harwood projects are in trouble as a result of what will be a focus on the premium area of the Arts District while Las Colinas also begins to ramp up construction of its TODs. TODs attract relocations. Relocations attract more TODs.

I also think every political firestorm that happens in Central Dallas sends investors to "the hills" -- de Las Colinas!

It amazes me how little people in Houston know. Most in here think Central Dallas is the epitome of DFW while, even when taking in the current expansion of development happening there, the only business markets to expand over the last 20 years in DFW are the ones outside of downtown Dallas and Fort Worth. What Uptown has gained recently in office space, Downtown has lost even more so over the years through office conversions into that of a hotel, in one case, and into that of housing of some sort in the other cases.

The building of the housing in Central Dallas is impressive but that only amounts to a trendy fashion statement that can easily find reason to move away during the next development phase of new fashion trends.

Have you ever heard of revisionist history? While you were picking up dirty plates in a hotel in 1982, I was interviewing with 60 oil field companies who were implementing hiring freezes. I ended up getting a job, not in oil, but in construction. Construction continued for up to 2 years after the oil bust. When construction finally dried up, it exposed the savings and loan fraud, which, for Houston, was the final straw.

But, knock yourself out. Debunking your myths is a lot easier than going out to mow my yard.

Just one of your many WILDLY exagerated claims. Never happened. Never even predicted. Ever.

Your attitude about restaurant help is ignored.

Did you ever here about the Crazy Canadian theory? How over building can go from absurd, to beyond absurd, to crazy Canadian? I guess not. Perhaps Houston didn't get a lot of development from Canadian companies like Dallas.

I understand it's fun to play with nuckelhead. But don't worry, anyone with even half the use of their brain would never take the undocumented 'figures' he's constantly pulling out of his ass seriously. He's a clown. You know it, I know it, the mods know it, and even nucklehead knows it.

It is 105 degrees in Dallas today with humidity. The heat index makes it something like 117 degrees today. What else does poor nucklehead have to do today except stay indoors and think up absurd theories, crazy predictions, and do a little trolling.

Expect more of this nonsense until the heat tapers off a little in Dallas.

This forum is biased.

Wrong again. Real estate development lags the economy, not the other way around. To use your energy market example, the oil markets crashed in 1982. Real estate development continued for a few more years before crashing in the mid 80s.

Have you ever heard of the "Crazy Canadian theory"? Look. All the banks went belly up in Texas. You are telling me that real estate was still great during the oil depression? We are talking depression here, not recession. What years did the Houston metropolitan area lose population? Houston didn't go through the oil depression during 1982. I was still making lots of money at Greenspoint Marriot during that time as a Room Service Waiter. Arco oil was renting a penthouse daily while ordering a thousand bucks of refreshments (plus 15% gratuity).

If a project got started during the crash, they had to finish it. The Canadian developers didn't care because they didn't come to Texas to fill up the office buildings with workers. They came to Texas to invest so they could escape the Candian economy. The real estate in Texas went from absurd, to extremely absurd, to Crazy Canadian. If it weren't for the crazy Canadian developers, downtown Dallas wouldn't have its tallest building today while it wouldn't have its extremely high vacancy rate (Take away four skyscrapers at least). The amount of cancelled projects in Houston alone amounted to almost 100 million square feet of office space planned in the Greenpoint area. You have to be kidding me. How many office projects got cancelled in Houston? The western portion of downtown where the convention center, baseball stadium and basketball stadium exist today was a planned development of nothing but office buildings. The Houston metropolitan area was predicted to have 20 million people by the year 2000. There was talk of building a mile high skyscraper in the city. Boom! Zoom! Bust!

The problem with your argument is that Midtown has not stagnated like Victory. They are still building and expanding it. The Pierce elevated has not isolated anything. So, once again your premise is WRONG.

THAT is what people are responding to, that you keep making statements that are full of WRONG facts and WRONG conclusions. The fact that you continue to make the statements after being proven WRONG suggests that you are a troll. It has nothing to do with the viability of TODs. It has everything to do with your incorrect statements.

Hoped that helped.

I see. Well, while Dallas is building a plaza over its freeways in front of its Art District, I guess Houston can just build them under their elevated freeways. Let's see which succeeds the most.

That is something Texas Cities don't have. Plazas. There is a good amount of plaza like stuff off towards the southern part of downtown Dallas around City Hall and the Convention Center where all those bronze longhorns are located. But this plaza is going to be smack dab in the heart of Central Dallas.

I think Houston is wasting its time not sinking its elevated freeways. The city does have a problem with flooding so sinking them and covering them will take a lot of money and work. But, you know, if the city don't want to put in the investment, that investment can always go somewhere else.

Isn't Las Colinas a dry area? At least 8 years ago when my friend lived there it was. Yeah, dry areas are no fun. People need liquor to properly enjoy work or mass transit. I've done hundreds of personal studies that support this.

Las Colinas is already much more than an office park. The area has the potential to surpass downtown Dallas and Uptown combined in shear office space and residential construction. This next wave of construction so far amounts to 4 billion dollars worth of personal investment in TOD's that is just getting under way.

http://www.dart.org/about/inmotion/spring08/3.htm

The City of Irving and private developers have planned more than $4 billion in transit-oriented development.

The relocations to Las Colinas attract the TODs. The TODs will attract further relocations.

it's called trolling.

your argument is faulty because midtown isn't isolated from downtown. every street in the downtown grid extends into midtown.

Okay. Your nonsense is to say "it's called trolling."

You should leave that out next time.

You are saying "Your argument is faulty because midtown isn't isolated from downtown. Every street in the downtown grid extends into midtown."

Okay. Live in tellytubbie land with that basic understanding.

There really isn't any way to respond to you without risking having the thread closed or having myself banned. I wish you the best with whatever endeavor you choose in life.

I know you weren't responding to me. I was just amazed that what he said somehow meant something "perverted" in your eyes.

Look, I am bullish on Las Colinas. Not Dallas. I don't even think Las Colinas should be considered as part of the DFW market. It is in a class by itself because when any company moves there it makes sense.

I started this thread here because the huge amount of land aquired to do the TOD south of downtown Dallas is different. I guess one could say it is similar to the Cedars conversion of the huge Sears warehouse into apartments. This project is going to be built on raw land. This is the kinds of development that will be taking place in Las Colinas after the Cowboys leave the area and DART arrives. This will shift the focus of development in DFW from Central Dallas to the area of Las Colinas.

It's happening now. Go look at the Going Up section, and stop going by what you think. You don't live here.

I only saw 4 mixed use projects and 1 project going up in Midtown. Look, this is an impressive amount of development but figure 1/3rd of it won't see the light of day. It's like the two rich kids throwing gold coins in the water until one finally capitulates. Some of these developments are competing against each other.

An example of this is the 42 story tower in Victory competing with the 42 story Museum tower. Victory is the developer who finally said "Uncle."

It isn't how the economy is now. It is how the economy is perceived to be 18 to 24 months. Figure the next President will establish an energy policy which will reestablish the oil market. Eventually OPEC will once again try to flood the world with oil in an attempt to wreck the domestic energy companies that are growing again. Things can turn on a dime. Be watchful for cancelled real estate developments in Houston. That will be a sign that the energy market is headed for another downturn.

All you have is two sports stadiums that aren't open year round. I'll give you Six Flags though. Just came back from there. I guess Houston area two entertainment districts will be Bay Area Houston and in the NE suburbs with the largest theme park/resort in the South outside of Disney World (Earth Quest). Hopefully the "Ski Houston" goes up there, too.

Yes. I guess you could put downtown Houston and Dallas in there to. Dallas has Fair Park and American Airlines Center plus the conventions and the market center. The Arts District is going to be big time because of the unique way it is gathered in one area. Houston has the baseball and basketball stadiums, the convention center and its downtown arts district. I liked going to Herman park more than going to Astroworld. Shoot. You have to consider the museum district too. The thing about Houston is mainly located in close proximity while Dallas and Fort Worth are 30 miles apart. Fort Worth itself has a world class Arts District while most think its zoo is better than Dallas'.

Oops. I forgot about that Texas Motor Speedway thing. That place in itself is already a classic.

WTF?!

Excuse me, Trae? I wasn't responding to you. The fellow I responded to was supposing that I got banned for pointing out that Houston needs to deal with its elevated freeways. Thank you.

The entertainment district around the Cowboys new stadium? If you're talking about Glorypark, then that thing fell through.

Arlington is an entertainment district with its two Six flags theme parks and 2 sports stadiums. Grapevine is also an entertainment district to a lessor degree. More important than the Glorypark development is how significant this part of Arlington will develop in the future.

The pressure being put on developments all around the nation has been caused by the over building in places like Las Vegas and Miami. Talk about over building? The home prices in Dallas have not fallen that much as the DFW area has had steady development in comparison to other parts of the nation. Look at Phoenix? While real estate development might tank in DFW for a bit, it always is the first out of the starting gate during a recovery.

this is starting to sound very familiar from a thread about a yr ago. think he ended up being banned.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

Excuse me? Where is the comment about the topic?

My argument was this:

1) The Corridor along 59 between Midtown and Uptown has the best potential to become urban with lots of TODs. It is a viable vacuum.

2) The weakness to Midtown development are the two elevated freeways. I gave an example of the Victory Project of how if it has petered out again as a development, it will be the second time. I also gave the reason of it being cut off from downtown by freeways as a reason for it to struggle during a downturn.

Now. Is there something perverted about talking about burying an elevated freeway? Why would they ban me for talking about "Elevated Freeways"?

this is starting to sound very familiar from a thread about a yr ago. think he ended up being banned.

what are you trying to say with the bolded sentence?

Sorry. I meant to say during a downturn.

Example: If the Victory project peters out in Uptown again, it will be the second time it has done so. That is why the design of the bricked American Airline center differs from the rest of the development. The major problem with the Victory project is that it's cut off by freeways from downtown. The area of the Arts District not only has the benefit of having a continuous flow into Uptown but its going to have a park plaza built on top of it as the centerpiece of Central Dallas.

There are already plenty of TODs in Houston. Mixed-use developments, too.

Yes. But TODs won't really take off in Houston until vacuums of undeveloped areas exist between the main business districts. That won't happen until the next expansion.

It is quite obvious that you have not been in Houston in 20 years. Being wrong about Dallas development is one thing, but trying to tell Houstonians what is not happening in Houston when we can walk outside and see it is laughably idiotic, and adds to your growing status among amusing HAIF posters. Currently, I place you just behind Plastic, and gaining fast.

You just can't not get offended, can you?

I was expecting an answer like, "Well, in my opinion I think the best chance for TODs will happen in east Houston around Gulfgate.

But no.

See, Houston does have a vacuum today on its present rail line in Midtown. But Midtown is cut off by two elevated freeways. In comparison, the vacuums in DFW are huge in distance.

The next Metro rail line expansion will connect Midtown in Houston with Uptown. I do believe it is a mistake not to face up to the problems those two elevated highways cause. But you make no comment about those ugly things either. No comment about 59 (69?) possibly being the urban corridor in Houston between Uptown and Midtown. Nothing but insecurity about office development.

The problem with the energy corridor is that it goes no where but to Katy. The corridors in Dallas connect business districts.

This is why I say there will be extensive TOD development along the 59 corridor between Midtown and Uptown in the future.

Indeed, that's impressive momentum.

Please be advised that this is not a debate between the metropolitan areas of DFW or Houston. Frankly, I think that both areas are as different as night and day.

This is a thread about TODs.

You mean Dallas, right?

http://www.harvestpartners.net/contact.html

I stand corrected.

Okay. Let us change directions.

Suppose a bum in Uptown put a gun to my head and said, "Tell me what you think of TOD development in Houston?"

Well, I'd tell him that the best potential for TODs in Houston would be along the 59 corridor between the Midtown and Uptown areas. In fact, I'd say that is the best potential in the state of Texas outside of Las Colinas. But there is a nagging problem there. Houston's Midtown is seperated by a set of elevated freeways. A long standing belief in Dallas is that elevated freeways divide neighborhoods and stunt growth. Growth is measured in cycles. For a neighborhood to break out of downtown Houston into Midtown only to stagnate during a downtown will add real estate barriors to the elevated freeways as future growth will follow trends that alter plans.

For example, huge gaps of real estate were left over from the bust cycle that happened in Houston during the 80s. As the metropolitan area expanded again, the new development did not begin where it left off but skipped out five to ten miles further outside of the city. It wasn't until much later that infill came back to tend to those areas that were left abandoned during the 80s.

So, when TOD development gets going in Houston when the rail system makes them possible, we won't be hearing so much outdated talk about 200 story skyscrapers.

I call BS. Your own hometown newspaper says the condo market has tanked. Your favorite TOD, Park Lane, cancelled two condo towers.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...os.3f06298.html

Fact is, nucklehead is living in 2006. In 2008, his vision of utopian DFW is stuck in neutral. As we like to say, "Just because you say it doesn't make it true".

You've been owned, nucklehead....by your own . . .

What is this infatuation with overly erect buildings? I said that the Museum Condos are getting built. Period.

The Park Lane lead-developer in that TOD is a Houston company. So, please, quit with the TOD bashing.

One reason for their delay in the Museum condo might be to increase the size of it. Perhaps they intend to add floors to it and make it a 100 story structure? Perhaps 300 with a total of 1000 condos? Perhaps they will build a mile high condo in the shape of a big "D"? Who cares really?

Dallas isn't into "my gravestone is taller than yours" kind of a thing even though I have heard that Dallas has a gravestone in a cemetary that measures six stories.

The change in Dallas has been subtle. It isn't about endless freeways and tall empty skyscrapers any more. Its about a world class mass transit system and nifty little mixed use TODs!

The small packages of mixed use seem like nothing until they build up. Then they feed off each other. The hope along Central Expressway is that there will one day be an urban corridor there to feed Central Dallas and the Richardson Telecom Business District with employees.

What other parts of the world exactly?

From the parts of the world where people live above the water? I don't know how to answer this exactly. Let us just say that there are millions of zillionaires living out there who might desire to throw down a few bucks to buy a condo in close proximity to a cities premier district. I think the Arts District is becoming that place in downtown Dallas. Downtown Dallas really hasn't had a premier district for a long time now with its office rates mirroring that of the suburban business districts. The Arts District looks like it is developing into the place where development will be focussed in the uptown / downtown area.

play nice guys.

i think musicman was poking fun at the screen name rather than a personal attack.

frankly, i'm quite jealous of museum tower and would love to see that kind of tower in houston. i hope it gets built one way or the other. it's a beautiful design.

on the topic at hand, i'm no longer familiar with dallas' transit situation.

The area in Dallas is just south of downtown and was the location of a massive refrigerated warehouse. This gives Dallas the opportunity to build a legitimate TOD. Let me see if I can post the location on a map here.

http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTExNmIycG...71%2C-96.799899

This type of development here is representative of the types that will be located in Las Colinas with its over 4 billion dollars worth of personal investment in TODs.

Banking and Telecom ain't what it used to be...

Compared to Boston, the Telecom research and development in Richardson is a bargain. The Telecom corridor is a unique setup where UT Dallas and Richland Junior College have been tuned to feed it with employees.

The Fed is in downtown Dallas while Comerica's relocation of its base there sets a precedent.

DFW creates new industries because of the new business districts that emerge every decade or so. As the Alliance business park north of Fort Worth matures, a distinctive industry will tend to be based there. I really like the entertainment district around the new Cowboy Stadium because of its momentum. It doesn't have the rail for TODs though.