102IAHexpress

I think you meant quit? Please just quit. Perhaps another Kindkaid alum? Better luck next time.

You really need a source to tell you well to do people in fancy condominiums don't ride public transportation? Really? Seriously? I have to prove that to you?

That's all yall got? weak. Throw something harder.

You just don't like the facts. Then your response is always "this topic is pointless to continue". Seriously? Grow up dude. The facts don't support your opinions. I live in a residential high rise in downtown, on the light rail, and have done so for years. It's filled with tenants. tenants with cars. We all live less than two blocks from the rail station, so according to you we should be very likely to ride the light rail right? But in reality None of my neighbors use the light rail. none. I've never seen them on it. Perhaps you don't like that fact, but it's a fact. I can promise you my neighbors care much more about parking and guest parking than they do about the rail. In fact yesterday, I saw one of my handicapped neighbors walking from his office tower on dallas street towards his apartment in Rice Lofts. I even thought to myself, wow even he doesn't ride the light rail. Google Houston business closed by light rail. It was all over the newspaper, tv etc. in 2000 to 2004 I'm not going to list all of them. The light rail construction killed many businesses, that's a fact. Very few survived. Metro was so concerned about the possibility of business failures during the construction of the green/purple lines they set up a Business Assistance Fund which compensated affected businesses up to $25,000. fact.

I don't disagree about the 2 blocks thing. But how does that further your point? Yes if I'm within two blocks of a piece of transportation I may use it. But there are other factors too. Like the pleasantness of those two blocks (homeless people, heat, rain, construction, etc..) So If I'm in a shinny high rise and I have the option of walking two blocks to the light rail (two blocks from a stop/station not two blocks from the tracks) or taking my s class Mercedes (because hey I can afford the rents in those new developments) the two blocks doesn't matter. It could be right in front of my front door and I still wouldn't use it. But if I own no car at all or if I'm in a wheel chair, then heck yeah, I will be very likely to walk within two blocks of the transpiration point.

Huh? I'm answering everyone's questions. I made the claim that it will be a disaster. Some people disagreed. Bigfoots said "I Clearly pointed out the development it has spurred" We got side tracked when others put words in my mouth and I proved them all incorrect. Eventually, I went back and answered, Hey I'm not sure about all this development you speak of. can you list some developments? Everyone was like haha this guy is smoking something there is sooooo much development because of the rail. Someone maybe you I don't remember posted a link to the development map with a ton of developments. There were a lot of developments indeed. Not sure how many were actually atrritubutal to the light rail. I looked at it more closely today and responded to EVERY single development on that map. I'm one of the few people on here answering questions. Yall just don't like the answers I give because it doesn't further your position. Or in fact refutes it, like the claim someone else made that it has spurred a ton of developments. Yall also like to dish it out, but don't like to take it either. But whatever. As far as your specific question. I don't know why 65% (not sure if that's accurate but that's fine) are within two blocks of the rail. But my best guess is because it's main street. Main street is still a street. It's not rail only. And there's a lot of businesses along Main street that were there long before the light rail. Maybe the developers of those new properties want to be close to some of those existing businesses. But if they are so enamored by the light rail they could have as easily built on the line itself, facing the light rail but as I pointed out line by line there are actually very few actually on the line itself and the ones there have huge parking garages. Why? Because like I also answered a couple of pages back. The tenants of those new developments wont use the light rail. They will drive their S class Mercedes into their nice garages. And I'm okay with that. Light rail does NOT have spur development. That's where we get into trouble. I just want it to move people who will actually use it. That's why in my very first post of this tread, I said hey it would have made a lot of sense to extend it to the CoH courts...Why? because the people who go those courts also use Metro...

21st century technology? Street cars/trams are late 19th century/early 20th century technologies. Street cars where on main street in downtown Houston over a hundred years ago. They didn't really work out.

1) 1111 Travis - The business that was there before moved. New office tower instead. (either the rail was the cause of the move or the rail caused a new development) I'll guess which one you will pick 2) 609 Main - On the rail true. I have to give you that one. 3) Lelland Federal Building. Not anywhere near the rail 4) 500 Crawford - Not near the rail 5) Block 334 - i'll give you that one but still car based. 6) Market square- Nope. huge parking garage faces the park 7) Old Texaco Building - Sat vacant many years near the rail. No takers for office space. But I thought the rail was a spur for development? But wait, City tax breaks, now being developed into residential. No credit to rail. 8) Hampton Inn - Convention Center related not rail related. 9) Holiday Inn Old Savoy Hotel - Sat vacant for many years. Rail no help at all. City offers tax breaks in 2014, now we have development. No credit to the rail. 10) Springhill Suites - Similar to number one above. Either the rail was the cause of the failure of the previous tenant or the rail caused a new development, I'll guess which one you pick. 11) Marriott - Convention Center related, not rail related. 12) 12 Alley Theatre - Not near the rail. 13) Public Garage - 1900 space public garage on the rail. (that should tell you all you need to know about "development" on the rail line) 14) light rail line 15) Parking Garage 16) Allen's Landing Building 17) 6 Houston Center - On the rail but how can the rail take credit? this is a new development linked to Bysell Tower, 2 Houston Center, Fullbright Tower, 4 Houston Center etc... 18) 800 Bell - Previous Tenant Left (previous tenant was exxon mobile, largest company in the world, they could have redeveloped etc, bought more property expanded along the rail, but instead moved to the woodlands) 19) Capital Tower. Either the rail was the cause of the move of the previous tenant or the rail caused a new development, I'll guess which one you will pick. 20) Chevron Tower - Not near the rail 21) Five Allen center - Nowhere near the rail 22) One Market Square - near the park, huge garage. 23) Old State National Bank building. I have seen so many businesses fail/move in that building, that I have to blame the rail. 24) Planned Residential - huge garage, near the park but I can give you that one too. 25) Planned Residential - not near the rail 26) Planned Residential - Not on the rail, probably spurred because of the baseball park and because of Toyota center near by, disvoery green and tax breaks. In the HBJ article the developer remains silent about the rail and instead touts the proximity of Toyota Center and discovery green, basically ignoring the rail. No surprise, it's a luxery tower. 27) Planned Residential - Not near the rail. 28) Planned Residential - Yes on the rail. but 12 Story parking garage. In front of discovery green. tax breaks. 29) Planned Residential - yes on the rail. tax breaks... 30) Planned Residential - not near the rail. 31) Skyhouse Main. I'll give you this one. 32) Convention Center Hotel - Convention center related not rail related 33) Hilton Garden Inn - Not near the rail. 34) Hotel Alessandra - I think previously I gave credit to the rail, but I'm taking it back. Either the rail caused the previous tenant to fail or the rail spurred the new development. I'll guess which one you will pick. 35) Planned HSPVA - I'll give you that one. 36) Texas Herritage Center? Right next to the convention center, discovery green, etc.. 37) GRB enhancments - Obviously nothing to do with the rail. 38) parking garage. nuff said. After the reviewing the development more more I'm actually less impressed with the rail. Yes there has been some development near or even on the rail, but to claim that the rail is the reason for the growth is silly. Like I said some development, but actually very little in 10 + years.

We actually somewhat agree. I agree that most of the east end riders do not work in corporate office towers downtown or live in downtown obviously. But I'll go one further and say most red line users in downtown do not either. And that's how I know the new developments in downtown have nothing to do with the light rail red/purple/green lines. Because the tenants of those developments don't use the rail. Look, I live and work here in downtown. This is my neighborhood. The people who actually live here and the ones that will live in those new developments will use their cars exclusively to get around or walk to their job if it's near by. I am the exception that still uses Metro only because my fiancé is a doctor in the med center so I take the light rail to visit her side of town. But Most people who pay the rents they do in downtown wouldn't be caught dead on the light rail. Same thing with the tenants in those shiny new office towers. They drive or commute via a Metro commuter bus or car pool. So who's actually using the light rail? I think its mostly people who were using the med center bus routes previously and people who are connecting to other buses. And a lot of homeless people. Again just my observations. Yes there's been some developments within a few blocks of the rail, but if most of those tenants are using their cars then how is the rail responsible for that development?

Hines is a major developer. True. But he is only one. But there are countless others who have put their money where their mouth is and avoided the rail all together. Also even the developments that were listed before are still being designed with automobiles in the forefront. It's not like the developers are doing away with parking garages. As I mentioned before I work in Chase Tower, yet I have never bumped into anyone on their way to or from the Tower who came from a light rail station. They all (the ones I've met) instead commute via their car or from a commuter Metro bus. Same thing in Rice Lofts. Everyone uses their cars, I've never seen one of my neighbors on the light rail. In fact a lot of rail riders actually originate their journey on the bus, but are forced to transfer and feed into the light rail. I'm not anti public transportation. Hines is right we need great mass transit. But that's doesn't necessarily mean a train. We have few transportation dollars, lets not squander them.

There's a lot I like about it. A lot I don't like about it. I actually use it everyday. I've been a Metro user for a long time. Longer than most probably. In my many years of being a rider I've heard a lot of Metro lies in the past. Sometimes I've seen Metro come through in the clutch. I have opinions and observations over many years. But Bottom line, Metro Rail diverts a lot of funds that should go instead to our bus system, which is a system I like very much and that has a lot of potential. But I understand the problem, our city leaders want to be like SFO and NYC and have trains even though Houston is a bus city. Fine I can live with that, but then at least design a train system that benefits the city and doesn't hinder it. If the rail lines were actually a catalyst for growth then developers would be fighting with each to build along it, instead the city has to beg them via tax breaks. Rail cost a lot of money for not that much more passengers versus buses. They are less flexible than busses and cannot easily adapt to changing populations centers as busses can. Light Rail especially does not blend well with shared streets with cars and often slows down traffic. Pedestrian fatalities especially with our light rail line are unusually high. All at very high cost$ For the money we spent on rail we could have started a revamped bus system that could have benefited the whole city. Instead we got the train of death. So yes, it's been a disaster.

Yes. not safe. Try walking from the end/start of the line to the CoH courts. Try it. Let me know how reasonable it is for you...

Yes. I'm serious about lives lost. A lot of pedestrian fatalities. No new development along the rail line in the first few years is one thing. But i'm talking about the businesses that existed along the line that failed after the line opened. True, Tax Subsides are not new. But there's a tax breaks for downtown residential construction. that's a factor in new construction that cannot be ignored.

The ridership for the Red Light rail line is very high compared to other light rail lines on a per mile basis. True. But the light rail line replaced busses that carried those same passengers. Buses with high ridership that connected the major economic centers of the city. But now we actually only have a few more passengers along the same route that was previously supported by all those buses, but at cost hundreds of millions of dollars more. Is that really a success? What about all the businesses that failed along the red line early on in the first years of the Red Line? All the developments that avoided the Red Line? The lives lost in fatalities. The tax breaks and subsidies in order to have new development along the line...

The light rail line existed for a long a time and there was not much development along it. But as soon as the city offers subsidies and tax breaks we get more interest from developers. I agree with the list. It's impressive. You've convinced me. There is more development. I never said there was zero development just not much. And my biggest question mark was what was the factor in all this. Was it really the light rail line? Like I said it existed for years, and in fact the light rail line was the cause of business failing on Main street, or was it the tax breaks? Are we going to have to offer more tax breaks so there can be more development along the rail line?

You're right about Hotel Alessandra. Forgot about that one. The Skyhouses I say yes, you can attribute them to the rail. 609 Main. Yeah, I have to give you that one. Hines Market Square. I think's that's more attributable to the park.

In the past 10 years there has been very little new construction development along the rail line. But please correct me if I'm wrong. The Red Line for example...You said there's a ton, okay name a few. The CVS on Main and Elgin, Skyhouse Houston....What else?

It's false because you attribute the development to the light rail lines. Catalyst: Not on the rail line. Finger Ballpark Apartments: Not on the rail line JW Marriot Hotel. Yes on the Rail line but, not new development. Redevelopment kick started with CoH subsidies and other public funding. I can keep going?

#4? So... not the most common usage of the word? LOL. Reaching a bit? Google disaster, and look at the FIRST definition. That's exactly what the Red Line has been and what these new lines will be. Catastrophe that causes great damage and loss of life. Disaster is a perfect word. As far as failure, I hope not. I hope they carry their expected ridership amounts, stay under budget, etc...

Do what you want. But you're the one getting defensive. At this point I agree there's not much to debate anyways. We just have to wait and see. But you're making some false observations regarding the development along the new lines. There's actually not that much development along the lines and the few new developments that exist I'm not sure I would attribute to the new lines themselves anyways. Same thing goes for the Red line. Very little new development along the Red line and it's been more than 10 years. In fact it seems like developers were moving away from the Red Line. The point is I don't want to wait and see regarding new development or ridership or whatever. The new lines are doomed to be a disaster before they even launch. The city is moving west but Metro's lines are moving east. I want Metro to help it's citizens now. Not 10 years from now.

lol haha Yall are too funny. I said what I said. nobody has proved me wrong. including Samagon. I never said failure, you can put words in my mouth but that only proves you more wrong. In any event. I hope it's not a failure. Unlike most of the 281'ers on here, I actually live and work in downtown. I need it to be a success. I really do. But I don't think it will be. The fact that the line is one month old means nothing. The line should at least be carrying as many people as the busses it replaced. Metro didn't plan well. I'm Not shocked. It's Metro. You all can try to defend Metro but it seriously only makes you look more foolish. Also that fact that it's a half mile walk from the last station to the CoH courts is not a huge deal in itself. It's that it's not that safe. I'm not even sure how you can cross capitol near the overpass without jaywalking. what if you're in a wheelchair? What if it's night time (the city has night court) makes the cross even more dangerous. Point is Metro could have offered a useful station in front of the courts for it's citizens, but like always they drop the ball. It's not about me. I will be just fine. I own a car. But what about those who truly rely on Metro? Remember, one of the intended purposes of Metro is to provide transportation options for the mobility impaired and for those without the economic means to move around easily. A station in front of the Hobby Center does not help them.

Also more reading comprehension needed. We're talking about the municipal courts, not the county courts and about the purple line, not the Red line.

Please go back and reread. You seriously cannot read well. Where did I say the line is a failure? (good luck trying to find where I said it) What I said instead is that I think the line will be a disaster/going to be a disaster. The reason I think so, is because Metro planned poorly. I suggest you get a refund on your Kinkaid tuition.

your reading comprehension is way off. Did I say I saw an empty train at the end of the line, therefore they are always empty at every station? ? My observations are that very often those trains are empty. Since the trains on capitol street only travel one way, logically that means that they are often empty on their way to the end of the Line which is theatre district station. Do some riders disembark at the previous stations (Central Station)? Perhaps. I don't know. My point was that it would have made more sense to extend the line to the city of Houston municipal courts. Because, (don't get me wrong I love the theatre) who goes to the theatre in the middle of the day? Reading comprehension. look into it. You are just lowering the perceived worth of your Kinkaid diploma when you make snarky comments and don't actually further the discussion. 102IAHexpress St. Thomas Alum

As I see trains passing by outside of Chase Tower I see a good amount of them completely empty. Which would make sense because who needs to go to the Hobby Center in the middle of the day? It would be hilarious normally, except this light rail line cost so much. What a waste.