Willy1

Y'all are right... I checked it out. I forgot to include the 1 billionaire in The Woodlands for Houston's numbers. So, Houston Metro does have 10 Billionaires.

I was looking at the Forbes 400 list of Richest Americans today. For the first time ever, every member of the list is a billionaire. Dallas has more billionaires than any other city in Texas... Here are the rankings of the big cities in Texas... 1. Dallas - 13 billionaires (DFW - 21 billionaires) 2. Houston - 9 billionaires 3. Fort Worth - 8 billionaires 4. San Antonio - 3 billionaires 5 Austin - 1 billionaire NYC has the most, by far - 46 billionaires! LA... 19 billionaires (but doesn't include metro) Beveryly Hills - 8 billionaires San Fran... 12 billionaires. Just thought this was interesting.

The statement about there not being in construction in DT Dallas is simply incorrect, although it's almost all conversion projects rather than new construction. Almost every vacant building in DT Dallas is being converted to residential... There was an article in the paper this week that stated that in the next 12 months the DT Dallas population will add 4400 new residential units opening. So, things are starting to change in DT Dallas... it's just going to take a while to get it all built and open. Also, some clubs and nightlife are open in DT Dallas, but the Fairmont is sort of on the outskirts on DT so, you wouldn't be within walking distance anyway more than likely. But, as of now, DT Dallas does remain primarily a business center, not a residential or entertainment district. Deep Ellum was enjoying a nice turn-around period in the earlier part of this decade, but the success of Deep Ellum drew the attention of many unappealing, criminal elements from the south of Deep Ellum... When the crime spiked and it became dangerous to go to Deep Ellum, the people who were previously spending money and supporting the local bars and restaurants, quit going to Deep Ellum. Almost over night, the crowds in DE shifted from money-spending, trendy Dallasites, to criminal elements who were just hanging out in the streets, not spending money, and causing problems for those who were there to have a good time. The DPD tried to step in and get a hold on the crime before it got out of control, but it was too late. The money-spenders were already off to another part of the city to spend their money and support businesses in safer areas - like Uptown. Do as Uptown booms, Deep Ellum continues to wither. Retailers and restaurants in DE have left in droves in the last 2 years. Dallas is going to have to get the crime in the area under control or DE will be a ghost town soon. The Green Room, one of the last big hot spots in DE announced this week that it's closing. The owner had to shut the doors because the lack of business has driven him out of business. I used to love Deep Ellum, but it's really on the decline and the one and only reason is because the criminals who hangout in the streets have made it unsafe for the legitimate club/restaurant/retail patrons to go down there. Deep Ellum is in a pickle when it comes to geography too... DE sits just East of DT Dallas and is sort of a buffer zone between extremely wealthy North Dallas, and extremely poor South Dallas. I have a good friend who lived in a really cool loft Deep Ellum for 3 years. He decied to move the night he was walking his dog and was almost the victim of a drive by while walking his dog on a Tuesday night... Deep Ellum will not turn around until the City of Dallas gets a hold of the crime problems and puts some sort of restrictions in place to keep criminal elements at bay... Question is... how do you do that in such a large area.

I have always heard, but have never seen anything official, is that one of the statistics for DFW airport was that it is larger land-wise than Manhattan. So, if that is correct, that gives you some perspective on the size of Manhattan compared to Houston proper. Of course, the big difference is that Manhattan is the most densely populated area in the United States, and one of the most densely populated areas in the world. By comparison all the big Texas cities are very sparsely populated when compared to most northern US cities.

I know... I'm so there with you. I can't believe we're going to lose her as the mayor. I guess we all have to go back to making fun of the school board and City Council. <sigh>

I agree, Dallas is anything but small. And to that point, when you're driving around any big city, you really don't pay attention to the city limit signs. How many people drive around LA thinking to themselves - thank goodness I finally made it out of LA as they pass into Long Beach... No, when you're in any of the suburbs around LA, you still have the whole impression of "LA is massive" because it just seems to never end. It's the same thing in any city where you just seem to drive forever without really ever leaving cityscape. Maybe people in the forums who pay attention to statistics will notice, but the general population doesn't. Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, LA... all the major sunbelt cities in the US have massive amounts of sprawl regardless of whether or not it's centralized city or suburban infrastructure. Now, I will say that Houston is a little bit of an exception to the rule because unlike most other major sunbelt cities, Houston proper is much more dominant that the suburbs surrounding it thanks to Houston's aggressive annexation campain. However, while driving around DFW you get that same "endless big city" feel even though you're passing through a lot of suburbs. I think it's crazy how big some of the US cities are getting in terms of land and population. Atlanta is a small city population-wise, but Atlanta metro is huge... clost to that of Houston Metro, if I'm not mistaken (and I could be). Houston is a huge city and huge metro of over 5 million. Dallas, is also a huge city with an even bigger metro footprint and population of over 6 million. All three cities also have very impressive skylines too.

...this article differs greatly from the 2005 estimates the NCTCOG estimated FW to have added. NCTCOG estimated that FW added 37K in 2005 and is predicting another record breaking year in 2006.

Thank you... a respectful reply to why Dallas is blamed for such self-proclaimations was what I was looking for. I didn't mean to sway off topic, but rather was merely following other posts down the line of conversation. I was unaware of Dallas saying it was an "east coast city more than a Texas", which makes absolutely NO sense to me. I do see where the economic rivalry could stem from since both cities have big historical oil-based economies that developed into much more - Dallas became a business/banking center, Houston has Nasa and the Johnson Space Center, etc. I get that. Back to the topic as well... I think San Antonio will be the larger city for a while at least given current growth trends. Dallas, as you said, will always be the more densely populated city. I think Dallas will have to overhaul its city govt and school systems before massive populations growth will happen within Dallas City Limits again. The suburbs surrounding Dallas just are more attractive interms of schools and govt. when compared to the ridiculous chaos of Dallas City Hall and DISD. But, the jobs and businesses will remain in Dallas. Look at FW, even FW depends heavily on Dallas for jobs and business. As much as I love FW and the population boom that's going on here, it's got a long way to go to compete with Dallas on a business level. I predict that FW will be somewhat like San Jose. It will eventually outgrow Dallas the way San Jose has outgrown San Fran, but will never match Dallas when stepping on the business and job scales. Dallas and Houston will always be the state's heavy weights in those areas. Happy 4th of July to the HAIF... Anyone want to discuss Dallas or Houston has bigger fireworks? LOL Just Kidding!

LOL.... First of all, I am not a Dallasite, so that blows your theory that I'm a "Dallasite obsessed with Houston"! I am a rare and nearly extinct breed - I actually like both cities! Secondly, I was responding to someone else's post which focused on the rivalry between Dallas v. Houston, not trying to turn the tide myself. But, you're right... none of this is really related to the topic of "Will San Antonio Take Place over Dallas for Good". I was simply - and sincerely - interested in finding out what is behind the whole notion that "Dallas self-proclaims itself as a superior city". I hear Dallas being blamed for that a lot, but have never actually read or experienced anything firsthand to support that claim. But, I totally appreciate you making false assumptions about me and blasting me for actually supporting some of my statements about why the FW/Dallas rivalry exists with actual facts, not just my own slanted personal opinions. And, since you feel I was long winded... I'm sorry that it took me more than one sentence to express myself clearly and that my post didn't include any personal attacks on other forum members. Heaven forbid anyone actually say something that is backed by fact in a public forum. Besides, since when did "staying on topic" start taking priority over Dallas-bashing in this forum? I thought that this entire site was dedicated to the sole purpose of pointing out all the faults with Dallas. My bad.

LMAO

Oh, you mean the thread I started in March of 2005 - in a completely different city's online architecture forum!! Well, forgive me for not making the connection between THAT thread in THAT forum from early 2005. Sheesh! So here we are, in THIS thread on THIS forum in THIS year, discussing which skyline sucks more - Fort Worth's or San Antonio's... How could I have not seen how that ties to my march 2005 thread about Houston's love for Dallas-bashing. I mean come on, it's so obvious that conversations about San Antonio and Fort Worth's skylines can only mean one thing - that Houston Rocks and Dallas sucks! Sorry about that - my bad! I'm so embarassed for not seeing that. Oh, by the way, I also started a thread on SPCA.com back in 1997 about how much I love puppy dogs and kitty cats. Maybe now would be a good time for you to give us some quotes from "that guy" who worked at the Dallas SPCS back in '84 and how he started some real bad blood between Dallas and Houston by saying something about how the puppy dogs in Houston stink more than the puppy dogs in Dallas and how the puppies in Dallas are always trying to compare themselves to the puppies in Paris and New York, which is just ANOTHER example of how Dallas is always trying to compare itself to international cities. Actually, that is a very good point. So, you know what? After work today I'm going to go right down the street to the Dallas SPCA and adopt all the puppies, then I'm going to go have them all put to sleep so that no one ever has to be subjected to another snobby, thirty-thousand-scoobysnack-a-year, Dalla-poodle ever, ever again. But, as I was saying... there are many buildings West of Fort Worth that are taller than the Burnett Plaza, including The Tower of Americas in San Antonio.

Burnett Plaza is not the tallest building between Dallas and LA.... Las Vegas actually has the Stratosphere Tower which iss 1149 ft tall. Tower of the Americas is 622 ft tall to the roof and over 700 ft tall to the point. The Space Needle is 605 ft tall. Other than that there are probably 20 other buildings - not just towers - that are also taller than Burnett Plaza in cities such as Vegas, San Fran, Seattle, etc. If you draw a straight line from Dallas to LA, then yes, Burnett might be the tallest building between the two cities... but that's not very impressive... I don't remember anything like that happening - not that it didn't. But, it seems like an really minor thing being said by ONE person.... I seriously doubt that the words of one person are enough to insight some sort of "realy bad blood" between to huge cities... And, with all respect, what does that have to do with this thread anyway?

Just an FYI - the tallest buildng in Dallas (the one with green neon) is not the Chase Tower. It is the Bank of American Tower. Chase Tower is on the other end of downtown. There are actually two Chase Towers now that Bank One is now Chase. The old Bank One Tower is the 2nd or 3rd Tallest, and the other Chase tower is the one with the hole in the rounded top.

A lot of people in FW were disappointed by Radio Shack's decision to build a suburban campus in DT FW. Peir 1 has good design elements to it, but it's too short. FW is a bit of a mind-boggle to me. I don't know how a city gets to be the size of San Antonio or FW without building a more impressive skyline. I think FW being so close to Dallas has hurt the FW skyline. Dallas is just more pro-active and aggressive when it comes to building on spec. FW is much more hesitant to build new buildings for some reason. I think FW is going to have to attract some big companies to downtown before anything tall will be built again... I just checked on Skyscraperpage.com. SA only has one building (Tower of Americas) that is taller than anything in FW... If you rank the two cities SA has the tallest with the TOA Tower, then the next 5 tallest buildings are all in FW... soon to be 6 once the Omni Hotel in DT FW goes up. And, if the Block TU project does get built (doubtful) then it will be considerably taller than the TOA Tower in SA... Anyway, hopefully FW's insane growth rate will bring new buisnesses to DT and with hit, new buildings.... The Trinity River Project is going to double the foot print of DT FW - literally. Most people believe that the TRV project will attract both new businesses, more residential high rises and eventually more skyscrapers in FW... Only time will tell.

It's bad, admittedly... but it's not THAT bad. I personally think the worst skyline award would have to go to El Paso, San Antonio, or Phoenix... SA and PHX are bigger cities than FW with smaller skylines.

Actually, the FW 2005 population was widely reported on locally because the increase in population for 2005 was unexpected. FW added nearly twice as many people in 2005 as it had in the the previous few years, each of which were about 20K per year... I saw it in the Star Telegram, the Dallas Morning News, on dfwinfo.com, and if you search the web for fort worth 2005 population, you'll find several sources there as well. FW has added just under 130K to the population from the 2000 census to 2005. So, FW has 5 years of growth left to be calculated into the 2010 census, which should put FW around 800K by 2010 if the growth continues. And, most experts say it will.

It did in the 90's but that's not the case any longer. What are your sources? Here are mine: From the city of Austin - this article talks about the "slow but steatdy population growth rate" in the first half of the decade which is down from about 3.5% in the 90's and is now closer to 1.3%: http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/census/download...wth%20rate' From 2000 to 2004 the US Census Bureau shows the following growth rates for Tx Cities with populations over 500,000: FW grew by 11.5% with an increase in population of 61,998 (which does not include the 37,000 FW added in 2005) San Antonio 7.4%, increase of 84,978 Dallas 1.8%, increase of 21,804 Houston 2.5%, increase of 55,743 El Paso 5.0 %, increase of 28,442 Austin 3.3%, increase of 21,520 In terms of % increase, FW is the fastest growing Texas city, followed by San Antonio, El Paso, Austin, Houston, and then Dallas. However, in terms of raw population increase - which is the one that really affects the ranking of city sizes - San Antonio is the fastest growing, followed by FW, then Houston, El Paso, Dallas and Austin... Austin is the slowest growing large city in Texas. Furthermore, FW is set to overtake Austin population-wise in the next year or two. Fort Worth's annual population increase doubled last year from about 20K per year to almost 40K just for last year alone. FW's current population is 661,850. Austin has, on average, added less than 8,000 per year in recent years. FW's population is more than likely within 40,000 of Austin's now. At currrent growth rates, FW is on track to top 800K by 2010.

Well, I'm sort of in between the cities... I have a house in FW and a condo in Dallas... So, I'm in Dallas for work during the week and in FW on weekends when time permits. I love both cities actually. They are sort of Ying and Yang to me. It's amazing to me how different two cities that are so close to each other are from one another. What FW lacks Dallas offers, and what Dallas lacks FW offers.... I think the cities are perfect neighbors for each other...

Hey, I'm from DFW (FW, originally but live in Dallas now) and I'm proud to be from the DFW area... BUT, most people in Dallas will be the first to tell you how completely screwed up the city government (of Dallas) is. That's no secret to anyone! They used to televise the School Board meetings when they were at each other's throats and being arrested for trying to beat each other up at meetings... They had to bring in the police to keep the meetings under control. It was ridiculous. I always thought that the Dallas School Board and City Council meetings (back when Mayor Miller was just on the City Council and causing trouble for then mayor Ron Kirk) should be sold on Pay Per View right along side WWF events! The biggest problem that Dallas has is it's city government, starting with Laura Miller! The city government in Dallas gives the worst possible impression of the city. I personally think the city of Dallas would be better off dumping their entire form of city government, firing all the city officials (mayor, city council, etc) and just starting over from scratch with a whole new city government. But, even if they did that the racial tension in the city would still be there... and that would put us right back as square one. Of course, every city - just like every person - has faults. It's just as easy to find problems in Houston, LA, New York... or any other big American city for that matter. And, we're dealing with public image here - stereotypes. Nothing more, nothing less. Stereotypes are based on personal experiences. I know Houston is a great city for many reason, but I personally don't enjoy going to Houston for my own personal reason (which I'll withold so I'm not accused of Houston-bashing). But, I don't lash out at Houston just because it's not my favorite city. I have reasons that I also don't like San Antonio - even though there are some fun attractions there. My point is, I think a lot of Houstonians don't like Dallas because they had bad experiences here. I also think a lot of Houstonians don't like Dallas simply because they are from Houston and being from Houston somehow requires them to automatically dislike any and everything Dallas. Same can be said on this end - there are a lot of Dallasites who don't like Houston just because when you're up here in the DFW Area, Houston is not a popular city to be fond of. But, it does make for some interesting personal attack posts on public forums!

I totally agree. Houston, SA, Dallas, Austin, and Fort Worth are all now among the nations 20 largest cities. And of those 5 cities, Houston, SA, Dallas, and Fort Worth are all really booming in one way or another. Austin is still growing, but not at nearly the rate it did in the 90's. Austin even saw a loss in population in the early part of this decade. But, it still contiues to grow, even if it's at a slower pace than previously. Anyway you look at it - Texas is Booming!

My apologies... I wasn't trying to insight a flame war... Just curious why the DFW sub-forum is so Houston-oriented. But, I do see your point... and I should have taken a second to re-read my post... It came out the wrong way. Just wanted everyone to know I wasn't trying to knock Gary.... Sorry Gary!

This is the DFW sub-thread... why would it have to be all about Houston when it's supposed to be about Dallas-Fort Worth topics? Although, I like hearing what similar projects are going on in Houston in comparison to DFW.

Just wanted the Houston Forum to know that the FW Forum got hit by a hacker and has been down for nearly a week now. I don't know who it was, but they got taken out...