West Timer

Brijonmang can even make the least loved buildings in Houston look beautiful. Brijonmang, you are a terrific photographer and I really enjoy looking at your work. Thank you for sharing it.

More glass and metal. Less cement and stucco.

Those are excellent shots. Thanks for posting.

9 hours ago, gmac said:

 

Just how would that work? Martial law?

I'm not sure we need martial law anymore. At this point, about 8 in 10 Americans say they support measures that strongly advise people to stay at home and limit social interactions to 10 people or fewer.  Polls showing 80% of the country together on any issue are rare.  Finally, we now have an issue that unites most Democrats and Republicans. 

How would a national stay at home order work? I suppose it would work the same way it works at local and state levels. The only difference is that it comes from the federal govt. I don't think any stay at home order, local or national, can ever truly be enforced. People will violate it for sure and they will rarely get arrested or ticketed, but it will keep MOST people at home. It will keep stadiums and theaters closed. And that will likely keep the transmissions lower. Trump has the power to persuade a lot of people. A national stay at home order coming from him, may not be enforceable, but it would definitely keep the transmissions lower than twitting about "liberation".

https://www.kff.org/?gclid=CjwKCAjw-YT1BRAFEiwAd2WRttcjq9YvJn8NTmFPOaL8UGPH_8VpVV5-agy1mtIfkZuePd14D68gLBoCJj0QAvD_BwE

https://www.foxnews.com/us/americans-support-extending-coronavirus-stay-at-home-orders

https://www.newsweek.com/americans-back-national-stay-home-order-1496997

https://apnews.com/9ed271ca13012d3b77a2b631c1979ce1

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/494028-poll-more-than-70-percent-of-americans-support-stay-at-home-orders

22 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

fair enough. I don't think anyone has tried to defend any of Trump's actions. he is a horrible President, there's no doubt about it.

 

it's also a fair statement that there is a lot going on that is outside of his control, such as the transmission and things like this.

I'll give you that there is a lot going on that is outside his control, but he could be slowing the transmissions with a national stay at home order if he wanted to. At very least, he could just stop tweeting encouragement for people to go out to mingle and protest in close proximity during this death spike. 

Just now, august948 said:

 

As I recall, you're repulsed and angry about any situation involving Trump, however tenuous.  Don't be frightened, though.  You'll get your chance to be heard on the matter come November.

I can't argue with that. I can't think of one way America is better off today than it was 4 years ago.

22 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

it's clear you're not considering anything aside from your desire to bash the President. you are more than welcome to it.

Yes I hate the president and I don't like passing up any opportunity to bash him. But I really am repulsed, frightened and angry about this covid situation. If this had happened under Hillary's presidency and we had the exact same death numbers as we have now and she was on t.v. everyday lying, promoting untested drugs, pathetically trying to convince people she was flawless and was unable to complete normal sentences like trump, I may not be here at HAIF expressing my frustrations, but I certainly would not be rushing to defend that kind of behavior or 46,996 preventable American deaths (as of 3:38pm) either.

7 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

It is ignorant, dishonest and pointless to compare raw numbers of infections and deaths without also factoring in the size of the population. For example, no serious person would suggest that 50,000 cases in Montana was a better result than 100,000 cases in New York.

 

                 Population         COVID       Per 1,000    COVID Deaths   Per 1,000

US:       330,625,701          826,248           2.5             43,442              0.13

Spain:     46,755,548            208,389             4.46             21,717                0.47

Italy:        60,473,516            183,957             3.04              24,648                0.41

France:    65,242.781           159,315             2.44              20,796                0.32

Germany: 83,742,152          149,044            1.78                 5127                 0.06

UK:             67,818,041         134,635            1.99             18,100                 0.27

Belgium: 11,580,103         41,889          3.62              6,262                 0.54

Canada:   37,679,832        39,598          1.05              1,834                 0.05

Netherlands: 17,127,78    35,026          2.04              4,054                 0.24

Switzerland: 8,642,719     28,268          3.04              1,478                 0.17

Portugal:    10,202,232     21,982          2.15                 785                 0.08

Ireland:         4,927,367     16,040          3.26                 730                 0.15

Sweden:     10,087,439     16,004         1.59               1,937                 0.19

Austria:       8,996,754       14,925         1.66                 510                  0.06

Israel:          8,629,831       14,326         1.66                 187                  0.02

 

 

 

Wrong, it's absolutely intelligent, honest and relevant that America is at the top of that list. It's no coincidence that the countries on that weird, outdated, incomplete chart are listed in order by cases (mostly), not per 1000. Those aren't just numbers to compare with each other, they are actual LIVES too. Not that republicans give a sht about human life anymore if it threatens the economy and it isn't THEM that's suffocating to death in their own snot. (Dan Patrick cough cough)

The number of cases (per 1,000) is a reflection of how the crisis is being managed. America has more cases per 1000 than most of the nations on that chart. Only 5 densely populated countries have more cases per 1000 than America. We still beat out 9 other peer nations. Sorry, that chart (wherever it came from) doesn't make me feel any better. I'm still certain that America would be lower on the "per 1000" section of that list if we had more competent leadership. I hate to think what that chart will look like after after we prematurely open up the country and after the next round of trump inspired "freedom" rallies. BTW, Georgia gyms, bowling alleys and barbershops are opening up on Friday.

The number of deaths (per 1,000) is a reflection of how good that country's medical infrastructure is. I feel pretty good that America is way down at number 9 on the (per 1000) death list, but that has absolutely nothing to do with anything trump has done. The govs are fighting tooth and nail for ventilators and PPE. Trump's filling the hospitals with patients, the doctors are saving the patients.

That chart is (mostly) ranked by human suffering and all it proves to me is that there is more human suffering in America than in any other country on earth. And that make us and our horrible, incompetent president the WORST (4 x worse than the next highest country) just like I said in my earlier post.

2 hours ago, samagon said:

I hate that p-grabber as much as the next person, but it's too soon to blame him for everything.

I got your response the first time. But I'm saying (again) that by any metric, (be they the false numbers of 3rd world nations or the more reliable numbers from our peer nations) trump's dismal performance in this crisis in unworthy of a nation of our stature. 

If blaming it all on trump helps in any way to get him out of the white house then I would say it absolutely IS getting us somewhere. As you know, Trump is a disaster on every level and long before c19 showed up. Coronavirus will likely be his greatest legacy of failure of all time by far. 45,000+ deaths in 2 months and an economic meltdown is nothing to sneeze at. People recover from p-grabbing, but people are dying by the thousands now, losing businesses, jobs and 401k's. No matter how much you want to compare American death rates to lesser countries (even if it's just for fun and to make a point), no place has more deaths on earth from c-19 than America the Beautiful. Trump owns it COMPLETELY. Yes, covid can and will be politicized by the left, just as it has been and will be by the right. The republicans can't wait to say that trump single-handedly cured c19 and fixed the economy. So, no, I have no problem countering it by saying he completely responsible for every last c19 death in America. Ying-Yang. Trump's election proved to me that people don't read the fine print. They vote based on whatever can be contained on a bumper sticker. So yes, all anyone needs to know is that America has the most covid deaths on earth and trump was in charge when it happened.

And BTW, it's really easy and logical to put all the blame a leader who:

• Spends the first weeks of infection ignoring it

• Once it looks like a polling liability, politicizing it and calling it a democrat hoax

• Minimizing the threat

• Shutting down agencies that were designed to fight pandemics

• Waiting too long to enact Federal mobilization efforts

• Ignores warnings from doctors and scientists

• Waiting too late to invoke The Defense Production Act

• Pushes an untested, unproven medication

• Forces Govs to compete for dwindling supplies

• Doesn't provide national testing

• Encourages people to gather in public and protest during the middle of the first spike of the pandemic

• Uses t.v. briefings to push his re-election campaign - at taxpayer expense.

• Spreads false information

• Risks further spread of virus and lives 

The bulk of the hotspots were coming from the the super densely populated northeastern states fast and with little warning. Now the biggest new clusters ARE coming from nursing homes and meatpacking plants in the midwest slowly and with plenty of warning. Republican govs and trump are ignoring the deaths and the risks and the lessons that should have been learned in NYC and are encouraging those very same states to get back to work. Kuddlow said today that the businesses where the virus is spreading shouldn't be held liable for customers and employees. PATHETIC! 

You want to give the NYC vicinity some of the blame? O.K. with me. But states do NOT have the same resources that the federal govt. has and trump spent a lot of time ignoring their request and accusing them of asking for supplies that they didn't need. Trump could have helped lower the rates of infection and death if he wanted to in NYC. He didn't want to. NY hates him, he hates them right back. And that personal hatred is reflected in those horrific numbers in addition to their population density. No matter how you want to frame it, it's a failure from the leadership at the top. The higher the office, the more of the blame they should get.

2 hours ago, samagon said:

so irrespective of the size of the population, we have to look at the total number of infections and deaths as the meter by which we judge various world leaders?

 

let me be the first to congratulate Kim Jong Un for being a peerless leader through this worldwide pandemic. they have 0 cases, and thus, 0 deaths among their population! truly a great leader.

 

honorable mentions should go out to the leader of Yemen, they've only got one infection. 

 

honestly, I doubt I'm the first to congratulate him on a really great job.

 

edit, we should also commend China for their great response with their military, not one single person in the PLA has been reported to have contracted CV19.

Judging world leaders by # of infections? Listen, I was no fan of our leader's p-grabbing, Ukraine-bribing, election-rigging, ally-abandoning, criminal-pardoning, nation-dividing, veteran-insulting, race-baiting and baby-caging even before I ever heard of c19. But this latest disgraceful failure is really hitting home. I want my Caydon towers.

So what's your point? North Korea and Yemen are worse than America? Captain Obvious. But even if Trump isn't the worst leader in the world, his handling of this crisis is lame by First World Country standards. I wouldn't put too much pride in the fact that America's handling of c19 is likely better than 3rd world nations and banana republics. I mean, if that's all you've got to defend trump, you're screwed. Trump is better than Un. Fair enough. But maybe you should raise your standards. "Trump is better than Un" will make a terrible bumper sticker.

Maybe we should aim higher. Germany and South Korean leaders seem to be doing a pretty good job not sacrificing segments of their population in the name of retaining power. Maybe America should follow their example.

We're probably going to have 1,000,000 cases and 50,000 deaths of c19 by this weekend. I don't know how that compares in percentages to the rest of the world and it doesn't even matter. It's unacceptable that America has so many cases and deaths when we had so much warning before the first case was detected.  America's death count did not have to be this high. Other countries have proven that.

It's possible that America didn't have to be in first or second or even third place in cases and deaths if the virus had been taken a bit more seriously back in Jan or Feb. Hard to imagine any leader recklessly and irresponsibly urging people to gather in large numbers to protest the best safety measures we currently have. Not sure if KJU or Yemen's leader did that, but we know for sure trump is doing it. And we know why he's doing it. Gotta keep them MAGAhats out of the trash can for as long as possible even if means killing granny.

1 hour ago, august948 said:

 

Well, except that China's case numbers and death rate is ridiculously low by global standards.  If you apply the US death rate to the population of china (1,408,526,449 x .01227%) you get 172,815 deaths making China (not surprisingly) by far the global leader. 

Except that science doesn't care what you believe. All we have to go on is numbers. Everything else is guessing. Keep spinning and grinning and adding and subtracting and multiplying and I'm sure you will eventually convince yourself that no Americans actually died at all and that 22,000,000 didn't file for unemployment last week and that Houston's future has never been brighter with our $13 trump oil. 

It makes perfect sense to me that America would have the highest number of cases. We partied through spring break from coast to coast. It was just a hoax back in March, remember? And trump just tweeted about "liberation". The Georgia gov discovered 2 weeks ago that covid can be transmitted by people without symptoms (NBC was reporting that back in Jan). He's opening up gyms and nail salons on Friday.

The curve is flattening, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get another spike or two before we're done with it. Yes, I always expected that America was going to get it up the butt with that incompetent lunatic as president. But never thought I'd see things get this bad. 4 more years of THIS! No thanx!

BTW, you don't have to convince me that we can't trust China. But the majority of Americans don't trust trump either. Any country can spin numbers any way they want. That goes for America too. Even if China does have more cases and deaths than the U.S., coming in 2nd place doesn't make me feel any better about trump's decisions or the position we all find ourselves in. Neither would being anywhere on a top 10 death list. Even with trump as president, I thought we were more advanced than this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/20/one-poll-number-that-could-haunt-trump-coronavirus/

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/493534-poll-majority-of-americans-disapprove-of-trumps-handling-of

Oh look, as of 7pm America has over 4 times as many cases as the next highest country. And almost as many deaths as the next 3 countries combined.  

5 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Claims made:

1) The United States has more COVID cases than the next five countries combined.  FALSE  788,920 vs 815,350

2) The United States has more COVID deaths than the next five countries combined.  FALSE  42,000 vs 88,168

3) The United States is the worst.  FALSE.  See above numbers and rates of cases and deaths.

O.K., then...

1) The United States has more COVID cases than the next FOUR countries combined.  TRUE.  788,920 vs 689,494 (Wow! I feel SO much better now! Wait, no I don't.)

2) The United States has more COVID deaths than any other country on earth.  TRUE.  42,000 vs 24,114 (ALMOST DOUBLE! Wow! America FIRST! - So proud!)

3) The United States is the WORST.  TRUE. Simple math. We have more covid cases and deaths than any other country on earth. (That's what trump gets to take to the ballot box.)

As for your context, ALL the credit goes to the United States medical community for saving actual lives, not to trump. The medical community gets high marks for survival rates (especially considering many hospitals are working with inadequate supplies and testing). Trump gets low marks for encouraging the spread of cases and for making the Govs compete with each other for supplies and test.  And don't be surprised to see another spike in the cases after trump has been encouraging people to gather in large numbers to protest stay at home orders. INSANITY!

I'm sure the republicans are really proud of the 43,442* Americans who so gallantly threw themselves on the sword in the last 1.5 months  to save the economy (oil is $11 a barrel today). Like Dan Patrick said, there are more important things than living. (especially if you don't have the medical resources of a Lt. Gov. wink, wink). 

You miss the point. Group these numbers around anyway you want, (4 countries, 5 countries, WTF difference does that make?) but it doesn't change the fact that trump has failed America by allowing us to lead the world in cases and deaths. I don't think America was destined to have the highest number of cases and the most deaths on earth. I think that happened because we got a slow start on testing, coordination and quarantining. Trump had a chance, through policy to curb the numbers. He blew it. He should own up to it. He should be made to pay for his "serious miscalculations and errors" on election night - and hopefully beyond.

But congrats on Americas total only surpassing the next 4 highest countries combined. 4 beautiful, fantastic. 5 nasty fake. 🙄

*3,442 more since I originally made the post, we'll be at 50,000 by this weekend, we might make it to 5 combined countries yet.

32 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

 

Trust me, I don't like the guy, but these numbers a direct result of global circumstances far beyond the control of just one person or party. Making an assertion like this easily lumps you into the same group of logic as many of his supporters. Every time someone is in power, the easy and usually wrong excuse is to blame the current leader. 

 

Has he made serious miscalculations and errors in responding to this virus? Most definitely, there's no doubt, and he needs to be held accountable for the foolishness he speaks. But at the same time, these are relatively unique circumstances, and it's hard to see how anyone outside of knowledge of the future or dictatorial control could have completely stopped this thing from spreading, given the diversity in state and local response. I don't think many people fully understand all the moving pieces and forces that make this situation a complex challenge, all we see is talking heads spout off bite-size segments that are dumbed-down, simplistic arguments designed to generate outrage and pit people against one another. 

 

Again, this is absolutely no endorsement of the current administration, it has been frustrating to witness on so many levels. But please, these arguments hold absolutely no merit.

Dumbed down? You mean like blaming China for all our problems? No doubt this was going to be bad no matter who was president.  But the fact that the U.S. has more covid cases and deaths than the next 5 countries on the list COMBINED does not reflect well on the leadership at the top. The problem is BAD MANAGEMENT.  Trump is totally incompetent and it's time for him to go. It's obvious if you listen to him, he doesn't know what he's talking about most of the time. His staff has to draw him pictures. Sometimes he's on stage saying the opposite of what his own staff says in real time. He's all over the map. One minute he tells America to do whatever their governors tell them to do, the next he's encouraging his pathetic low information cult base to attend large gatherings to protest whatever their governor is doing. It's obvious, he doesn't care who lives or dies or who gets sick or whether or not you lose your business or your job. His only interest in this is getting re-elected and he bases all his policies on how he's polling from minute to minute. Trump is total madness. But using those daily briefings as political rallies has to be the worst. And I don't think they are helping him anymore. Most Americans see straight though all his BS.

Not all countries have it as bad as we do. In fact, we are the worst. No matter how republicans spin it - these appalling numbers are real. The buck stops with the president. Just ask any GOOD manager or president.

If trump wants to take credit for the stock market going up 1000 points in one day, then he gets blamed that it goes down 10,000 points in one month. That's just how it works - merit or not. And he also gets to be the guy in charge the day oil went down to $0. Sorry, it comes with the territory. 

If trump wants to say that America is now "Great Again" while we have: 

• 750,000 covid cases

• 42,000 deaths

• 22,000,000 unemployment claims 

• $0 oil 

... then he can be held responsible for those very same numbers that he says are making America "so great".

If trump loses the next election because he gets stuck being the face attached to these horrific numbers in the minds of the electorate (as he should be), then I would say these arguments hold plenty of merit. Trump will do and say anything to have 4 more years so I don't have a problem if anyone wants to use these numbers against him to get him out of office.

9 hours ago, august948 said:

 

Since all of these items are directly traceable back to China, we need a president who will act quickly to institute travel bans and ride heard on China.  I guess that would be Biden?

Since all those items happened under trump's watch, Obviously trump didn't institute travel bans or rode 'heard' on China fast enough (whatever that is supposed to mean).

All those items are directly traceable back to Trump being an incompetent grifter who is in WAY over his head. ..."the latest democrat hoax"..."the test is beautiful."..."it will magically go away in April." ..."we have 15 cases and will soon be down to 0".

That's right. What we really need is four more years of this bullsh¡t. How many people have to get sick? How many people have to die? How many people have to lose their jobs? How low does oil have to get before we give someone else a shot at trying to put this country back together? How many more Mulligans? China Schmina. Blaming China isn't going to fix the problems we have now. Americans know who's to blame for this Trumpocalypse.

Common sense tells most people that when something or someone isn't working out, you make a change. America has never been more f*cked up. As president, Biden couldn't do any worse. In fact, America and Houston were doing pretty good back when Biden was VP. 

21 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

It's really not that simple.  First, everyone dies.  The analysis has to consider how much earlier people die than they otherwise would have.  I read recently that a substantial number of corona virus deaths are elderly or otherwise-compromised people who likely would have died within a year even without the virus.  The analysis has to consider that, along with the possibility that in the long run, many millions of people might have significantly shorter life spans as a result of the lower prosperity caused by the economic shutdown.

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2020/04/03/coronavirus-poll-americans-saving-lives-economy-public-agenda/5098766002/

Saving the economy - 21%

Stopping the virus - 72%

Hard to imagine either party going against 72% of what the American people want in this election year.

What government? 

If you want to guarantee civil unrest, make it the official policy that from this point forward we are going to do nothing to treat or stop the spread of C-19. 

11 hours ago, august948 said:

 

Let not your heart be troubled on that score.

😎 Whatev bro. Just stay heathy and try not to hoard too much "hoax" soap.✌️

1 hour ago, jgriff said:

There comes a point when the solution is worse than the problem. I’m starting to think 2% of the population dying might be a sacrifice we should make. After another month of this we might be very close to social unrest caused by economic issues, not medical ones.

I think the leaders of Jonestown were saying something like that just before they forced little kids to swallow poison Koolaid.  The fact that so many people are entertaining the idea of sacrificing OTHERS so that they can live without "social unrest" makes me think that we may be already seeing the collapse of civilized society (that's MAGA for ya).

Do whatever you want. When you are finally face to face with death, I'm sure it will be a great comfort for you to know that I can still go to the Galleria. But if you think that anyone else should sacrifice themselves for YOUR cause, please feel free to SMD. Just because MAGA failed doesn't mean the rest of us have to die. Have a nice day. 🙂

It's a talent. Don't be jealous. 😎

7 hours ago, jgriff said:

Downstream projects that are currently under construction are considering long delays and staff reductions now. We could be seeing massive layoffs in about 3 weeks. This is about to start getting very, very bad. I never thought I would see multi billion dollar construction projects that are underway grind to a halt.

More people are coming to grips with new realities and

Are now realizing that we are just

Going to have to adapt and 

Adjust to having much, much less in the future.

We Houstons never knew how good we had it

All along. But now we

Should really think

About preparing for life without a lot of things we used to 

Help ourselves to without having to consider the consequences.

Our decisions and future

Actions now could hurt us by

Xmas if we keep making excuses for believing excuses.

12 hours ago, august948 said:

 

That's about as relevant as Joe Biden.  Just saying...

You might be right. Hand soap and eggs are becoming increasingly more relevant by the hour. Just like Biden, they are now a hot commodity and going up in value (at least in the swing states where it counts). https://www.mediaite.com/news/fox-news-poll-shows-joe-biden-crushing-trump-by-25-points-in-swing-counties/

I know, I know, polls are only relevant if trump is leading in them, right? 🙄 But congrats on Trump's t.v. ratings. I'm glad he brings that topic up so often on his daily coronavirus/political revenge briefings. I'm sure it makes Americans feel a lot better and a lot safer and so confident about their jobs, mortgages, 401k's and parent's lives to know that Trump's t.v. ratings are so good these days.

If the stores being without hand soap and eggs and the hospitals being without mask and ventilators and Houston's energy industry having no future for the foreseeable future is what you people call "Great Again", I'll gladly settle for making America NORMAL again, like back when 'irrelevant' Biden was VP.