Mister X

I'm usually drawn to fabulous fifties architecture, the crazier the better, but in this case I do think the newer building style looks better. I wouldn't be saying that if RV had been built in grand style, state-of-the-art, googie fashion of the 50's (or whenever it was built). RV doesn't seem to be holding up that well today from the pictures I've seen, beauty-wise.

A little extra wind is a small price to pay for a good skyscraper.

If the Chicago Mandarin rendering and the Dallas Mandarin rendering had a baby - it would grow up to look like the Houston City Centre rendering.

Isn't it funny that all three have one large tower with a similar roof top, similar observation spot and similar small tower right next door?

Only thing is - there is no mention of any new Mandarin coming to Houston any time soon on their list up upcoming projects. Let's hope this rendering is brand spanking new to the kobi/karp website. Is there any clue how long the rendering has been there?

This must be pretty new considering that the Shamrock was scrapped relatively recently.

At last! A building everybody likes and a sure fire hit. What a godsend!

Seems like soccer appeals to little kids in America and when they get older they switch their loyalties to football.

I wish they would build the soccer stadium somewhere close to a proposed rail line. Just in case Houston ever gets considered for the olympics again, they can push the idea that all the venues are easily accessible to rail.

If you think this thread got off track, you should see what's happening on the HP thread. People are posting photos of Hogan's Heroes or something.

By the way, what exactly is going on at Rice Village? Is there construction or is all the renovation just in the planning stage? As someone who lives close by have you seen anything going on? I haven't been there in years. I remember RV being flat and a little bland. The renderings make it look more lively.

Now THATS a crane, baby!

What an excellent way to prove a point. Consider it stopped.

Sure enough.

I suppose if all I ever heard around here was that everything was so wonderful in Houston, I'd probably feel the need to do a reality check to point out what's wrong with Houston. But I doubt things will ever get too postive or negitive around here with out someone offering an opposing viewpoint.

For the last day I've been the positive ying to the negitive yang.

I can't get over how excited some of y'all get about cranes. Somebody should do a HAIF crane calendar... full of high resolution pictures of cranes from all angles, some of them scantily clad in their company logo, some of them oiled and shiny, some of them muddy....

That's one of the best ideas I've heard in a long time. Seriously. It's a fresh idea that hasn't been done to death.

Well done!

I always thought Virgin Megastores were cool, but now they seems like they generate all the excitement of an abandoned amusement park. There's no future in music stores. Well, maybe a short one, but I can't imagine a Virgin going in at HP now.

ESPN Zone sounds like a lot more fun. And considering the proximity of HP to all the sport venues downtown, it would be highly appropriate to have the king of all sports bars. Just think of the business it would generate for Astros' games after work. Someone really needs to write the ESPN people and let them know what's going on here. Who knows, maybe they are already waiting in the wings.

Any change has to begin somewhere. Every revolution in history began with a few people complaining about how dissatisfied they were with things. Do I expect a discussion on HAIF to directly influence how an architect designs a building or whether a developer goes through with a project? Of course not. But as the saying goes, a butterfly flaps its wings in Tokyo and it changes the weather in New York....

People come by chance to this site, read something, and get interested. They keep reading more, learning about the city and its architectural heritage. Then they go to the Brazos Bookstore and buy books about the city's architecture, and when the books sell out, publishers become more willing to publish books on Houston architecture. Eventually you have twice as many titles in the "Local Interest" section related to architecture. The academic community starts to take notice. It becomes easier for Rice or UH to lure a professor of architecture if he doesn't feel he'd be coming to a backwater. A great emerging architect based locally will be more hesitant to move his practice elsewhere if Houston possesses a strong, homegrown architectural "scene." Sort of like New Orleans has in the culinary world, or Nashville in the music world.

And besides all that, people who love something like architecture just love talking about it. Discussion is an end in itself. And when we are angry or disappointed about a building, instead of keeping our thoughts to ourselves we can complain to a group of people who will listen to our complaints and agree, or perhaps disagree, and have a (hopefully) thoughtful and stimulating discussion about why they disagree. We end up learning more, and developing our ideas further than if we kept them to ourselves.

I mostly agree with all this. No one is right or wrong here, it's all just opinion. But some these posts sound like Houston is a complete architectural waste land with no hope for the future and it isn't. Things aren't all bleek in Houston. If it were I don't believe this website would have ever been created and have as much activity as it does.

Sure there are better places with better architecture, but I bet there are a lot of people who live in other cities that would love to get their hands on some of the architecture that Houston has. After all, who wouldn't KILL for a Williams tower and a TMC in their town. There are a lot of cities that would love to have the economy that Houston has. Houston today is a sucess story and mostly has been since it was founded. Sometimes people don't appreciate the good things that are right in front of them. And that's sad.

Focusing strictly on the negitives won't accomplish anything. And while I would agree that focusing strictly on the positives won't get you anywhere either, at least it's better than moping around all day, angry and frustrated with nothing to do but gripe over things you can't change. Houston isn't some urban utopia, and not everyone's going to like it, but it IS possible to live here and enjoy it too. In fact, with the way people are moving to this area by the thousands every year, there must be something good happening around here.

It's so amazing how quickly things change. It's seems like just yesterday people were doubting that this project would happen at all. And now - we got crane! Woo hoo!

I thought commenting on HAIF - WAS resting on one's laurels. Maybe you're right about not sitting back and enjoying life. Worrying over something that doesn't bother me and that I have no control over makes makes much more sense.

But seriously, I absolutely agree. It would be beyond silly to give up on Houston now or ever.

If the architecture in Houston really bothers you, by all means voice your opinion. But it's no crime to be content with what's going up either if one is inclined to do so. You guys can type yourselves silly and maybe Houston will be home to the next penis tower, oh wait that's on another thread.

I'm kidding, I really hope Houston gets something spectacular and if that happens because the involved architects or builders get a sense of the angst of a few HAIFers, then I'll be greatful for all the noise.

Give 'um hell! Far be it for me to be the one to discourage some brand new, world class architecture for Houston. Keep those complaint letters to architecture Santa Claus coming (by way of HAIF) and maybe Houston will get a spire in it's stocking for Christmas.

Everyone is entitled to their comments, positive, negitive, constructive or just plain b*ching - it's just that listening to a bunch of complainers get's old fast. So I feel a need to brighten your day - you're welcomed.

This will turn into another ugly, banal enclave for those who wish to spend big bucks on poor quality.

Constructive criticism?

Sounds like negativity to me. But like Sub said, it keeps HAIF interesting. It's been a while since I've seen Rice Village, but the renderings look better than the way I remember it being.

And on the upper side - there are people who already like the architecture in Houston and don't have to do anything but sit back, enjoy it, and watch the silly, frustrated, and angry people knock their heads together to make Houston first class in the eyes of New York and Chicago.

But seriously, I'm glad people want to make Houston first class or better, I just don't have a lot of faith that typing negitive comments all day on the internet is going to make Houston a first class city. Houston has plenty of problems, I just don't think that the architecture is a big one. In fact, I think the architecture and the people are Houston's strongest assets.

Now if we start talking freeway blight, open ditches, inadequate light rail, humidity, mosquitos, brown water, flooding, crime, lack of theme parks, lack of major league hockey, pollution, rap music, suburban sprawl, and big butts - I say type away - and use all capital letters for Christ's sake! Of course, I wouldn't expect the water to get any clearer, but at least I could understand the negitivity. (It's all about opinion here anyway - some people probably like rap music and mosquitos)

If you guys can get us some world class architecture by whining on HAIF - more power to you. If it works, I'll be your cheerleader - or should I say jeerleader.

Houston is so hopeless that everybody should just put a bullet through their head and be done with it all. Maybe we will be reincarnated as New Yorkers and then we won't have any problems.

I agree with Subdude, the negativity make this place interesting. But luckily for me, I'm one of the many who likes most of the high profile buildings in Houston so I get to live in ignorant bliss, while the sophistocates are forced to wallow in the bowels of architecture hell.

On the upside, I hear there are escape routes out of this void for those who can't handle it.

As Houston is such an dismal place for architecture, I'm very surprised HAIF was ever created in the first place. Maybe I'm completely missing the point of this website, this isn't an architecture forum at all - it's more like a complaint desk to nowhere.

Not only is the architecture in Houston a complete waste of building materials, but there isn't even any hope for any good architecture in the future. As architecture enthusiast, how can you guys sleep at night? It must be unending torture living in Houston. That must be why this site is run from Chicago.

great news

Books-A-Million sounds fantastic. Any book store that puts sex books in the religious section is my kind of book store.

I don't care if HP was only going to be one story high and it's anchor tenants were kmart and walmart, seeing 3 downtown parking lot eyesores turned into ANYTHING is worth sacrificing a virgin for. (and I don't mean the obsolete megastore)

HP, the Park Tower, and Discovery Green are going to change downtown forever. Ten years from now no one will be able to remember how Houston existed without HP. This is a great time. Seeing these projects come to life is like witnessing the dawning of a new 21st century Galleria being built in the perfect urban location.

Be psyched. Be very psyched.

Maybe more whining and wimpering will make Houston the place it ought to be.

Ouch! That must have hurt - as someone decided to delete it the first time I posted it. But lighten up everybody. It's just a little jab. I mean no disrespect.

I don't have a problem with the Turnberry or Gary's opinion. And no one is getting over heated. I'm the one who's glad this building is going up, remember? What have I got to be heated up about? I'm happy, happy, happy!

I see where the guys who wish this building was going to make more of an impact are coming from and I respect their opinion. There is no harm in wishing that this building was less safe and and more cutting edge. But is it a crime to just be content with this building - and happy that they are not buiding some cutting edge building that just comes out looking goofy and ruining the impact of Williams? If it is then sue me. It's out of us HAIFer's hands anyway, so what's the point of crying about it. I say, just make the best of it.

Or not, I don't think anyone really cares if we like it or not.

BTW the term 'artistic medium' in the previous post refers to the art of architecture in general, specifically placement and relation. Maybe 'artistic medium' was a poor choice of words. I never meant to suggest that the Turnberry had any special artistic merrit. I was speaking in hypothetical terms of all forms of design in general. Whether it be architecture, sculpture, painting, photography or graphic design, the same basic "rules" apply regarding placement and hierarchy. And in that regard the Turnberry doesn't do any harm to the area as a whole. In other words, when people take photos of the uptown skyline it will still look pretty good after the Turnberry is built - maybe even a little better, certainly more dense. As an entity upon itself the Turnberry is o.k. that's all, I would not call it "art".

P.S. - please don't delete this, it's completely harmless opinion. Just like everyone else's.

xxxooo

Yes ProHouston, pessimism runs rampant on these boards. It's never big enough, nice enough or quick enough. Makes me wonder how some of these guys make it through the day.

I wish people would stop putting words in my mouth. I never said the Turnberry was a good design. It's not that bad. It's not that good. It will slip into the background and allow Williams to continue to dominate. At best, it will add density and it won't compete with Williams, which I'm happy about. Clear enough?

The Aquarius, for better or worse, will command it's own space, and building right next to another building that commands it's own space would be unfortunate. But it's not happening anyway so I suggest either making peace with the Turnberry, move to Atlanta so you can be near Aquarius, or just learn to enjoy life. The Turnberry could be a lot worse. It is not the best or most original design I've ever seen but at least it probably won't do any visual harm to the uptown skyline. That, in itself, is worth being happy about.

But if you would rather sit in the humidity and complain about nothing, knock yourself out. Trust me, no one's listening and it will get you nowhere.

If it will make you happy, you can always try to stop the Turnberry before they build it. I'm sure everyone would be happier with the dazzling structure that exist on the Turnberry site today.

Bye.

Where did you read that I said I like cookie cutter buildings? I love fresh architectural designs as much as the next guy, but get it right. Just because a design isn't run of the mill doesn't make it great. Furthermore, location and proximity is as much as part of the mix as style.

I just don't think it does a skyline any good to have too many buildings that scream out for attention in close proximity. Some buildings should be the star, others should be the support. Just like any other artistic medium, in a perfect world, some things should dominate and be the focus and some things should receed and lend support. Judging by the size and shape of it, that Aquarius building in Atlanta would be hideous right next to Williams. It's probably fine right where it is.

I don't want to cause a Houston/Dallas flame war so I won't go into whats wrong with the downtown Dallas skyline, but lets just say there is an awful lot of competition, clashing styles, and unnecessary ornimentation going on there. Some think that all that superficial flash makes it look interesting, I think that it just looks junky and forced.

That Atlanta tower looks like one of those cartoon buildings in New New York in Futurama. It looks almost "Dallas grade" over the top tacky. I wonder if the big light will blink or change colors or something so that the tower will STAND OUT more.

I agree that there is nothing really spectacular about the Turnberry, but I'm glad. Williams tower commands enough attention in that spot. Building some weird-looking competing tower too close could lessen the impact of Williams. The Turnberry as is might make a nice enough compliement in the area. It's another backdrop tower, but that just fine for that particular spot. It's size and proximity to Williams will give it enough of its own presence that it doesn't need any more bells or whistles than what they are already giving it.