VinnyVincent

More discussion on gaurenteed profits to private investors aka "reimbursements" http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9981.0

Anyways to anyone reading this that actually wants to look into the dark side of toll roads, I've found just a couple articles this morning(more to come. Don't want to present too much material at once) http://www.urbanophile.com/2013/11/24/drop-in-traffic-means-rise-in-guaranteed-profits-for-private-road-investors/ http://www.texasturf.org/2012-06-01-03-09-30/latest-news/public-private-partnerships/1931-texas-for-sale-new-laws-sell-texas-to-highest-bidder

HA! you expect me to sift through a 200 page contract to find something when you won't even read my news articles? Look it's like I just laid out...they've intentionally made the information obscure and hard to read. There's nothing that clearly explains in plain english, how any of the funding will work. It's just like the "It wasn't a lie about BW8 never being free, that was fine print"- spoken like a true greasy palmed politician! So I ask, since you seem to have some inside info on this project; What exactly will happen in the event the road isn't profitable? Since I'm spending time compiling info so you don't need to read the article, think you could just post the section that explains what happens in the event the road isn't profitable? Or will you just respond instead and let everyone know I lied and the contract is "only" 180 pages. How are you affiliated?

I was referring to SH130. You know it's funny- there don't seem to be any details available in the news about the contract witht he 288 investors. THere's nothing available that clearly discusses the funding details. WHy is that? We only seem to get these details after the road is built and it's too late. Let's see...I've posted links to back up what I'm saying, have I not? The people who I'm "arguing" with have openly refused to read those links. They've also refused to answer questions as to why they are blindly defending the roads and whether or not they are somehow affiliated. Yes I may have mis-spoke a few times, which several of you have been quick to exploit. Tht's because there is a lot of info here and some of it is not fresh on my mind. I did not realize I was on trial here...Again this is why I posted links which ironically the guys accusing me of making things up are the same ones refusing to read.

Something to think about... Why are they auctioning off our public roads in the first place? Seems like this toll road business is quite profitable since so many people are jumping at the opportunity.

Anyways Houston19514; later this afternoon I guess I'll go sift through all the info and post some quotes on here since you don't seem want to put any effort into finding the facts, unless those facts are in favor of the toll roads.

Lol...are you trolling me? I think you know what I meant. No single person has billions of dollars to invest. They could have collected the money through bonds, but that would require too much effort on their part to get the money I guess...that or no one single private citizen is paying off the people who were in charge of the bidding, the foreign investors are. You decide. Was it publically announced that the bid was open? Because I didn't ever know they were thinking about expanding 288 until they had already secured funding from foreign investors. You seem to have a lot of background info here. How are you affiliated?

I have been sharing it. several of you accused me of not doing any research and accused me of saying things that weren't true...so I posted links of where I got my info from to back up the statements I have been making and now you aren't willing to look at those. It seems you would prefer to keep assuming I'm just a tin foil hat wearing kush smoker instead of taking the time to find out the facts. Like I said it seems like you prefer to be blissfully ignorant to what's really going on behind closed doors. Why? What do you owe these people? You think they are charging a reasonable amount for tolls and are using the money responsibly? I don't get why anti-toll ideals are met with such harsh resistance.

Uh, no...you didn't read it if that's all you got. You skimmed over it. Clearly you are biased towards the toll roads and don't want to be convinced otherwise for some reason. Why are you defending these people? Linebarger and HCTRA are like two peas in a pod. They send money to eachother back and forth for shady reasons and linebarger spends LOT of money on lobbying for toll roads. Basically if one wants to spend money on something that would raise a red flag, they have the other organization spend the money and vice versa.

What other options? I could think of a few, but the problem is everyone so stuck on tolls(lets face it that's the REAL EASY way out if you're a politician, but it makes the least sense for citizens.) Heck, they aren't even willing to modify how toll roads are ran...For example I would be glad to invest some of my own money into the 288 project, and I'm sure others will...but instead guess what? It's only open to groups of private overseas investors. For some reason only they get to invest in something that has a guaranteed profit written into a contract. Why do you think that is? You mention that "they aren't going to quit spending 25% on schools". Why do you think that is? Because citizens like you and me stand idly by and ALLOW them to keep adding toll roads with wreckless abandon. I think if we simply take tolls off the table as an option, what other choice would they have but to use the money for what it's supposed to be for? Meanwhile how many kids fundraisers are you blowing money on each year? THese people just take take take. They'll take your whole paycheck and just give you enough to eat if you let them... And as far as federal funding goes, it is what it is, but you do realize we are subsidizing toll roads with tax dollars right? That's not Donald Trumps fault is it? By the way are you anti-republican or just anti Trump? Because toll roads seem like a pretty republican concept to me... In other words the whole thing stinks of corruption, greed, and politicians flat out not doing their job. Some of you seem to be pretty active in the local government. Why do we keep voting for these people?

You know what I think? I think that's a crock. It's all rhetoric and we don't really know until we try other alternative, but some of you seem to be too closed minded to even CONSIDER anything else other than tolls tolls tolls. Why don't you guys speak out more? If you don't make your opinions known, then the only people who are going to be heard are these toll road shills and lobbyists. I'm over here being portrayed as some kind of rogue kush addict or something when the truth is, my opinion on this is not all that rare...

Yeah that's it. I'm on drugs for thinking it shouldn't cost 2 dollars every few miles to get to work after the state highway fund already dumps billions into our local roads. foreign private investors aren't buying up our roads and selling them back to us with gaurenteed, county subsidized profits. maybe we could afford some roads if we weren't having to subsidize profits for foreign investors right? Or maybe that's just the drugs talking.... i guess you you didn't bother looking at any of the info I posted and you don't find any or it strange that HCTRA keeps trying to buy up every possible road they can around here? That doesn't upset you at all? You'd rather start paying to use roads that are currently free? I happened with 249 and with your attitude it's going to happen a lot more.

Why we are on the subject of the HOV/hot, who even wants that? Anyone? I think the VAST majority would rather have a reversible lane that EVERYONE can use...but there's no toll revenue in that is there?

Not in the mainlanes, but HCTRA will be taking control of the center HOT/HOV lane from metro once the expansion project is complete. They're also widening the lane and adding a shoulder.(apparently for emergencies but we all know the real purpose is to post constables there to enforce tolls) It should be similar to the managed lanes on I 10. point is they get their greazy crooked little hands on everything they possibly can in our county and turn it into a beauracracy which o can no longer stand idly by and watch. It's sickening.

Wow; are you affiliated with HCTRA somehow? Okay so in other words they misled the public into supporting it, like I said, right? You know what would be easy? For them to have been honest about the road in the first place instead of getting people to support it under the false pretense that it would one day become free. Why do you think it is that their brochure didn't say the truth- the road would never be free? Because that garbage would have been rejected so fast it's not even funny, that's why! This is a classic BS politician/lobbyist move. "mis-speak"(lie) to the general public when the actual ballot states otherwise(yet still lies by omission considering what the literature said) Now here we are forty years later and they just keep moving the goal post don't they? First the road was going to be free, then "well you don't have to use it, it's a mobility service", to "sure we got greedy and traffic is just as bad on toll roads now, but thats the only way to build new roads", to "we can't even afford to maintain the current roads without tolls", to "we're going to have to convert EXISTING roads to toll roads" Where does this crap stop? When you're getting tolled the second you back out of your driveway? You know, you don't HAVE to leave your house to go to work if you don't want to pay the toll. It's optional, right?...right? Enough is enough! HA! have you TRIED to avoid using a toll road and getting around town lately? It's not easy! Been to tomball recently? Avoiding tolls on that route is FAR from easy. 249 was bought and paid for when they converted it to a toll road and now getting around that area is a travesty. You'll keep saying that until they make 610 a toll road eventually, and I-10, and so on. It's never going to stop if you keep using that logic.

I don't have a clue? I need to do some research? I've done plenty of research. Maybe you should take your own advice: http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/cyfair/news/article/TxDOT-revises-U-S-290-expansion-plans-6480254.php Also within the above article you will see that HCTRA "donated" 200 million for the project. Since metro currently manages the lanes and it will be changing to HCTRA once the project is complete, I'm assuming that's why the "donated" 200 million. So they have the right to "manage"(AKA charge people money to ride on a public road built with tax dollars) the lane that metro current manages and has already been constructed using tax dollars. Which link did you look at? There is a wealth of info regarding shady crap the HCTRA does. Here's a good one: http://money.cnn.com/interactive/pf/debt-collector/government-agencies/ Also check out the turf website because they had quite a few useful links on their site: http://www.texasturf.org As you can see I've done plenty of research and I don't appreciate your tin foil hat comment. Lets have a real discussion about this here...writing me off as some uninformed idiot before you do you own due diligence isn't helping any of us grow as a society.

This new expansion project they are working on- specifically the HOV/HOT managed lane in the center. HCTRA pitched in on the project and now has the right to manage that lane(It was and currently is under metro management, which I like because metro doesn't seem nearly as shady as HCTRA) only...the amount they pitched in isn't much- probably what it costs to update the managed lane to their standards with toll booths, ect. In other words we could have easily expanded the road without getting HCTRA involved, so why did they get involved? Do some research on HCTRA and illegal/shady activities. You'll be surprised. I can't believe so many people think they are so great. it's very frustrating.

We all know the general public doesn't read the actual legislation before it passes...and that's exactly what the people pushing this were counting on. There were news articles saying that once it's paid for it will be free. They certainly could make good on it and make BW8 free, but instead it keeps going up. Why is that? Oh that's right "you guys didn't read the fine print!" 40 years later...what a joke.

BAM! and there it is...that's how this crap gets sold to the public and voted in- Flat out lies!

They do lobby the public at large lol...that lobbying consists of BSing the public into thinking hteir existence is necessary- it's not. I think there's a good reason for why they don't directly try to show the public their "worth". It wouldn't take long for a majority of the public to realize they are in fact worthless and need to go. Our roads should not be sold to private foreign investors and then later sold back to us for a profit. That's freaking ridiculous.

Actually if you do any digging at all, you'll see that HCTRA and their partner, linebarger blair and sampson, who participates in their ridiculous collection practices that would otherwise be illegal for any private company, have been involved in quite a few known cases of lobbying and otherwise doing very shady things with their money. A simple google search for something like "HCTRA illegal" will yield numerous lengthy articles on the subject. All the writing is on the wall, but no one reads it because they eat the BS they are spoonfed by the people running these roads. I've pointed out several scenarios, such as with highway 290 where only about 25% of the money came from toll revenue. The rest of the money came from the state highway fund. In other words we can build and expand roads to a certain extent WITHOUT using any of these private investors money. Any statement otherwise is a lie and generally made by a person who has something to gain. Is anyone else here familiar with the TURF website? Lots of good info on there.

I'm sorry some random guy on the internet is having to tell you this, but; Organizations lie/misrepresent information on their financial reports and get away with it all the time. It's very common. Have you ever known anyone who works in accounting? They can attest. No incentive to lie? Are they drawing a paycheck? Do government organizations not participate in quid-pro-quo? Just because it's the government you assume the money is being spent responsibly? But don't take my word for it, I'm just some random guy who is upset with the fact that just about every highway surrounding him is becoming a road were it costs 1.75(and rising) just to go 4+/- miles. You don't find it at all hard to believe that it apparently costs that much just to maintain a road? 2 dollars to roll your car over a 4 mile stretch of road one time? Come on! I was born at night but it was not last night. Also why not just increase taxes? The argument for "paying for something you don't use" goes out the window since people are claiming that a significant amount of money is being "donated" to help maintain non-tolled roads. It's a tax no matter how you look at it...but as a toll road, we end up paying way too much for that tax.(and we are being taxed twice since it is subsidized to a large extent by the state highway fund) I can't believe so many people are being outright screwed by these people and you are actually DEFENDING them. Have you ever visited this site? http://www.texasturf.org/

I don't trust them. All the financial info is coming from within their organization and no third party is involved. The higher ups are likely some group of slimeball politicians who are sneaking money out of the cookie jar where ever they possibly can. Their financials report appears to have been intentionally made hard to read. It does have 1.3 billion as a net figure somewhere on the 2010 report... Even if their net is "only" 118 million; what's being done with that money? As far as I am concerned they didn't DONATE a dime to the 290 project either. They paid an "operator fee" to boot metro out from being able to enforce an HOT lane that was created with tax dollars. That's all it amounts to. The paid a bride to be able to get their hands on the money. If that's not the case then why is metro getting booted out? That brings me to another point on the 290 project; The total cost was 1.4 billion. HCTRA contributed 400 million. Are you telling me this project wouldn't have been possible without HCTRA and their contribution? Sounds to me like HCTRA is paying to convert 290 into a partial toll road and that's where their contribution got used. So I ask what happened to "we can't build roads without them being tolled"? Really? We could not have added a lane in each direction on 290 for 1 billion and left the HOT lane as is to make up for the missing 400 million??? We could have cut HCTRA out of the deal, told them to keep their 400 million and used the remaining 1 billion from TxDOT to expand the road, could we not have?