VinnyVincent

That's great. Somehow I doubt I'll be receiving a check in the mail and will still have to pay to use a road that was constructed on public land. So yeah I like my protest idea better than "researching" to try to convince myself I'm not being screwed- I KNOW I'm being screwed. I just paid five dollars one way to work on a road that's been paid off for years. I live here. I see it everyday. Some of us can only go off what they read in google which doesn't always align with reality. Waiting for the private toll road operator to show us some mercy after we sold our soul to them in some 52 year contract that will probably be renewed after they line the pockets of whatever politician is in office. No thanks. I'm thinking maybe a deal we a whole bunch of cars meet the drive around BW8 as slow as legally possible.

That's true but the population has what? Tripled? Cars on the road has also at least tripled it seems. They're getting tons of revenue from toll roads now. Yet for some reason it seems like we can barely afford to do a half job maintaining the roads that already exist. It's bizarre...

Well I think the first step would be taking the toll road option off the table. After that yeah traffic might get pretty bad for a while, that is until people start putting the pressure on to quit wasting our tax money...

At least if the road is paid off. I did an experiment and got on BW8 to go to work today since it was flooding elsewhere. Cost me 5 dollars one way from 290 to 288. So ten dollars a day to commute on that road which easily would total out to well over 2,500 dollars over the course of the year and that's being conservative. This is on a road that's been paid off for years. If there's any toll at all it should be reduced to something like .40 cents or so to maintain the road and that's it.

Not sure how the tax rate has remained the same, population has increased, but somehow now we can't even afford to maintain roads when we used to build them.

Is it not public land? I would have thought that the land would have been purchased/secured back when they initially built 288. Now they are paving over it(saving tons of money not having to buy or clear any land to build their little toll road scam) and charging people to drive on it. To me that's not much better than just converting the whole thing into a toll road. Why didn't they build their toll road elsewhere? Because it's not as profitable since they would actually have to purchase the land, that's why. Instead they have encroached on a public road and made it a "private" thing.

Aren't the republicans in Austin the ones who keep making roads "appear" with a toll attached? Lets imagine for a moment that our tax dollars are not being totally misused and that we literally can't afford to build any new highways at all; Why is that problem transferred over to me, the citizen, in the form of a toll? To me that is not an acceptable solution. It's their job to figure out how to fund road construction. If they can't do that without charging the taxpayers multiple times what it costs to build the road, in a system where they mortgage payment only increases over time, then they have utterly failed at their job and need to be replaced, not rewarded with bribery and the like for pushing the pro toll agenda. Also in their failure I still don't think we should resort to building toll roads. There are better ways but until tolls are off the table no one in office is going to bother.

That's the thing though Ross, with the current attitude of the general public, why would they raise taxes when they can just continue with building toll roads all over the place with little to no backlash? After all they are a cash cow and they free up other tax dollars to fund their pet projects, all while likely receiving a paycheck from entities who stand to benefit from the proliferation of toll roads. AT the end of the day there is plenty of tax revenue because that's all that tolls are; an overpriced tax. Problem is they are looking at roads as a revenue generating opportunity and not to increase mobility because it's gotten so out of hand. Look at the hardy toll road. How long was that subsidized? Let's be real here, they did not need to build that road and it's just like 288...they are building because it is a good business opportunity and when that fails, your outrageous tolls on BW8 will have to pay for it too. Look Ross, I think at the very least we can both agree that the situation is totally out of control. I mean if we need to toll the roads we need to toll them, but check out that link I just posted up nd it outlines what I think are some reasonable suggestions for regulating the toll road operators.

Found another website that has some great info and ideals https://www.change.org/p/texans-for-toll-free-highways-heavily-reform-toll-roads-by-legislation-or-litigation-sign-the-petition

Man great info on there, thanks! The idea I have would be something along the lines of the critical mass event. Something to raise awareness as to just how many of us motorists have totally had it. I'm stuck when it comes to thinking of an effective, yet legal way to do that...

Anyways to everyone reading this; We are all in the same boat here. I feel any of us who live in the greater Houston area are getting screwed by our elected officials in charge of transportation and the private entities they have aligned themselves with. Whether it's by paying hundreds/thousands a year in tolls, or sitting in terrible traffic while brand new super highways are built in areas that are less congested...we are all getting screwed. I think deep down everyone reading this knows it's true and that's what's most important. We can argue all day about WHY it's true, but I think we all recognize that it is true. I think what's most important is that we all recognize that toll roads are not the most efficient way to reduce congestion. With that being true, why are we(our elected officials) continuing to push them so aggressively?

Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to say regarding the HOV/HOT lanes. Thanks for clearing that up; I understand it can be confusing for some who don't live here and are trying to decipher the website put up by the tolling organizations who do everything they can in order to word things in a way to dodge any scrutiny. I disagree with your "reducing congestion by increasing the price" theory. That's part of the problem with toll roads to begin with. They aren't very efficient at reducing congestion because only a fraction of the drivers are going to use the toll road. This is especially true of "managed lanes"(government speak for toll roads)

There has to be some kind of action we can take as everyday citizens against all this rampant toll road expansion around here. That land they are using to build the 288 toll road; Doesn't it belong to the taxpayers? Why are we being charged to build a road on that land? If they are going to use that land every citizen in the county should be reimbursed for that land they took from us. Any ideas?

I don't care who we replace them with either. Mickey Mouse could do a better job engineering and planning some of these roads.

Get real. Have you overheard any of the discussions our officials have regarding road construction? The idea of making a non-tolled road is not even remotely on the table. IMO they all need to be replaced with their kind of thinking.

Personally I don't see what the big deal is. It looks like a regular intersection with some fancy paint in on half the pedestrian crossing on the half that bikes tend to use anyways. I cringe when I think of how much money was wasted on this fancy paint job meanwhile people pay 1.75 every few miles because we apparently can't afford to build roads.

What makes you automatically assume it was spent on non-toll projects? I'd say there's zero room to assume that it's NOT being spent on toll roads considering the lack of oversight and public interest.

I'd like to know exactly what that money was spent on because I don't doubt that it was used to build more toll roads. It also seems that no one here is even sure as to whether or not HCTRA clears a profit. These are all some serious questions that need cleared up before we just go slapping down superhighways all over the place and paying insane tolls.

If HCTRA is not making a massive profit, then there is something seriously wrong with the way that organization is handling their money.

And if they absolutely had to just build a super highway right down the center, why not one more lane in each direction and a "managed lane"(toll road) in the center? That seems more moderate to me. At least have something to encourage car pooling, but no, no...it's just a straight up three lane reversible toll road. It's just really beyond me how people pay 1.75 every few miles on BW 8, but they are somehow too broke to simply add a single lane in each direction on 288. Instead they had to opt for a three lane super highway.

Considering the profit they make on BW 8 alone, I just don't see how it's not possible to slap some concrete down on the land that was already cleared and paid for years ago and call it a day. We wouldn't have to build any toll booths or maintain any equipment. No billing department. No customer service. No nothing except for a road that everyone can drive on. How is tolling the new lanes really helping traffic overall? Wouldn't it be far more efficient to not build/maintain a toll road? Lets say they build three tolled lanes, but it costs 5-10 dollars to go any good distance down 288 now, so there's 3X less traffic. Could we not have just added one lane in each direction and gotten the same traffic relief? Something tells me the cost of doing that is doable with tax dollars, where of course building a super highway down the center is not feasible or currently necessary. I do realize that 288 was initially designed to have express lanes with less exits/on ramps going down the center. Express lanes does not mean TOLL road. Were tolls even a concept when 288 was initially designed?

Lol. Way off. Nice try though. Keep on trolling. Let me spell this out for you once again: 290's managed lane is free for motorcycles and multi passenger riders during HOT hours. I-10's managed lane is NOT free for motorcycles or multi passenger cars during HOT hours. Period. If you still aren't getting it then I'm not sure how I can help you. This point was only brought up in the first place to illustrate how HCTRA cares more about money than providing a public service.

I'd wager that it is intentionally made confusing to distract people from the facts. Similar to what Houston3408214732 has done in this thread.

I'm only jumping back and forth because of your attempts to derail the thread. The original point was that HCTRA needs to go away because they are more in line with private interests and not the public. A prime example was the fact that METRO runs the 290 HOT lanes and they allow motorcycles on them for free. In contrast HCTRA runs the I-10 HOT lanes and you have to pay to use those. I'm not sure why you are confused as to whether I ride my motorcycle during HOV or HOT hours. The answer is both. I generally ride during HOV hours in the morning(although sometimes I get on the road early so it's still HOT hours.) and HOT hours in the afternoon(and the opposite can be true in the afternoons. Sometimes I work late so I ride during HOV hours) You've mutated that into some retarded argument over technicalities, when the reality still remains that you cannot ride on a motorcycle for free in the I-10/Katy HOT lane, but you can on the 290 HOT. In other words I know a lot more about commuting on the 290 HOV/HOT than you do, so you should hang that one up.

More info for those of you who wonder why we pay taxes out the ass yet none of it seems to be going to any roads: http://www.texasturf.org/2012-06-01-03-09-30/latest-news/2060-special-section-on-prop-1-fallout-as-oil-bust-means-less-money-for-roads