shasta

That more than likely isn't it. The image was removed from the site and wasn't even in the print edition.

Considering they've only begun the attempt to raise money within the inner donors' circle donors for anything new, I doubt the building even has a preliminary design, much less something a bit more elaborate like the aformentioned rendering.

Plus that rendering looks like it is from around 1984...surely they can come up with something more urban than a building that you'd expect to see in a suburban business park.

Yeah, just saw the site and they still have the renderings

does anybody know anything new,though?

I sent them an email a week or two back but I never received a response.

Can someone with more specific knowledge on mixed-use development throw out some reasonable ideas why? I would think the retail would get going first, assuming their tenants were pre-leased... quicker buildout, etc. Unless there was a feeling that construction of residential would keep retail customers away...

Not knowing the specifics of this project but...... the architect probably designed the retail as 'spec shell space' with square footage requirements per the developer. Depending on how the marketing went on this one all of the shell retail may not be leased at time of the residential opening. The developer isn't going to wait for the retailers because the apartments equal net profit per month for the rent for the developer.

Typically, the developer leases the retail space and then the retailer 'designs' and builds out the space as a tenant improvement.

It all depends on when the tenants (retailers) sign an agreement and then how long it takes for their design team to design and buildout the space.

I'm not sure about all but I'm sure the Pavilions have had tenants signed up pretty early on so they can design and built out their space around the same time. An example would be the House of Blues...... so they have their design team working on the shell' space they acquired from the developer. It's just how the developer decides to go about it. The Pavilions didn't have a residential portion so they could wait a little longer to get commitments on the retail before breaking ground.

I propose that, henceforth, the Memorial Hermann building shall be referred to as The Robot Building, for any and all purposes.

All those in favor?

The real question is: Autobot or Decepticon?

Yea... I was the one who posted the exact figures several days ago: 8.8 mil from the city, 5.5 mil from Harris County (out of nearly 200 mil total for the project)... do you really think the increased tax receipts from this development and future development spurred by the project will not eventually compensate for this investment? Seems like a basic cost-benefit analysis to me, and I would side with the city's decision.

I think people are overlooking the simple fact of what the city (and only the city is trying to achieve long term. They should be commended.

They are making an INVESTMENT in the heart of the city (downtown). They feel that if they make an investment and build a park, offer tax incentives to projects they agree with, expand the convention, build stadiums, hotels, etc. that it will be an INVESTMENT that will pay off for them in the future. How?

Well they are banking that by doing this 'planning' they will be able to recoup their investment by the increased tax potential for neighboring projects.

Example- spend money to build and maintain Discovery Green.........One Park Place is built (increased tax revenue)......Discovery Tower is built (increased tax revenue).....and the city is happy because they got the residential component near the park they were hoping for.

Retail is another part of the puzzle that they were looking to attract and they got it....and it probably will spawn further development.

The city proved they know what they were doing when no private developer would build a convention center HOTEL downtown...SO THEY DID IT. Now they made so much in profits that they are looking to flip that hotel and build another thus strengthening their Convention District.

The city is fine with what they are doing...see the big picture people. Who else makes a huge investment back into the city??

yeah...I've had out of town relatives also comment on how clean the city is

The page is officially gone. Check the original website now and the project is no longer listed... haha... looks like someone wasn't supposed to announce that yet.

Hopefully, Hines is reading the posts about its building getting bashed and is reconsidering the program, scope, and the design for this one. Houston deserves better than the sterile, unwelcoming skyscrapers we got from profit hording developers in the 70's and 80's. This is a new Houston and the architecture, both from the skyline and from the connectivity at the street, should reflect that. Of course you can make a profit but try to be sensitive to the complexities that make a project a success. Understanding the lot and the character of the surrounding buildings is a first step.

Sometimes I wonder if Hines has anyone with even a remote understanding in Architecture working for them. An adviser ...anyone?

I'll fourth the questioning of the location BUT I am sure glad that something is happening on this lot. I drive by it everyday and just think of the possibilities. One of the best locations in downtown.

Historically speaking, the intersection of Texas and Main IS the best availaible lot in downtown.

I think it is a HUGE loss for the city to have a building here without a residential component.

This is a VERY significant lot and we've already had two proposals or schemes the last 5 years- one called for a condo tower and the other called for a striking mix- use tower (residential/ hotel/ office) . The location is near one of the strong nucleus of downtown (Texas and Main) which includes the historic Rice and other residential buildings with close proximity to dining options, the theater district, Market Square, and of course the rail. I almost say it's a crime for HINES to replace a residential vision that at least two developers had dreamed about with a 30 story, sterile looking, ho-hum glass, office building. I mean -Is this Greenspoint??? They could have at least put Main Place here if this was their plan.

Why not build this building on the other side of Main to take up some of the surface lots?

While I'm all for infill and making downtown more dense- It has to make sense and contribute to the bigger picture and add to the 'city building' standard we should all hold developers to. This building doesn't do that and this lot is too valuable- I hope this one doesn't go through because I'm holding out for something more significant.

How did you stumble upon that? Nice find!

It seems as if all the buildings listed in their projects section is either already built or in the process of being built. Can anyone confirm that? If so, that's goooood.

I'm just waiting for Niche to say something like, "I won't deny that it's in the works."

Send this over to one of those skyscraper pages so they can count the floors.

edit: my estimate is that it's around or a little over 30 stories.

What happened to the 60 story 'city center' design for that site??

Why can't Houston get a 1,000 footer or a 1,500 footer like Philly (the 1500 footer was recently announced). Instead, our Downtown gets thirty-story towers. Up the ante a bit and put in some fifty-story towers.

Honestly, I would rather see 5 20 story buildings built downtown as part of a 'neighborhood' instead of 1 100 story building built in isolation. Wasn't the late 70's and early 80's about building these tall grand skyscrapers that added nothing at the street level?

I'm so glad Houston has matured past this type of thinking and is actually now more concerned with building a city. Let cities like Dubai chase their tails.

Guys, don't get too carried away. That rendering is about four months old. The new one will be going public in a few weeks and is a vast improvement.

When is this thing scheduled to start construction?

Yogurberry... LOL!

Hey, it may prove to be a popular place, but the name just reads funny to me.

I wonder if Yogurberry is similar to the Pinkberry chain of yogurt you find out in Los Angeles.

I'm happy that the Houston skyline is growing horizontally. I think we've often focused on the vertical growth ... I would one day like to see 'the skyline' be filled in from downtown all the way to uptown. Now wouldn't that be a site.

I like this design alright, but it's nowhere as groundbreaking as the stuff in the 80s ... but then again, we'll probably never see those daring (foolish?) designs again. Times have changed.

Imagine Houston being filled in from downtown to uptown AND downtown to the medical center.

8181 Med Center.

I drove by the site tody and I saw that had some equipment and tractors on the site. Maybe they are about to start construction on this one.

I'm not sure how accurate this is but I remember the mayor saying something around the time of the initial park land purchase and design process. He said that many developers had expressed interest in nearby lots close to the park (Disco Green)as the city was going through the process of setting a program for and then designing the park. I forgot exactly where I heard this because it was a while back.....but think about it.

Do we know of any lots that were developed DIRECTLY because of the park?.....yes... One Park Place.

Oddly enough, Disco Tower and Embassy Suites are located bordering the park. La Quinta...Minute Maid has been there since 2000 but this property is purchased 4 months before the preview of Disco Green. I don't think this is a coincidence and I will go on to say that I believe that some developers somewhere are thinking of ways to develop lots close to the park because they own them. If only we know what could be in store.

Go back and look at the proposed and under construction map of downtown for new projects. There sure is a bunch of activity on that side of downtown but the question remains -When will we get concrete information about City Centre? Either the rendering prematurely leaked onto the web or a developer hired a firm to come up with a scheme to see if it could be feasible. I say whether it happens or not it proves that developers are thinking of ways to develop downtown Houston which is a good thing. The market will determine how high of a standard it expects.

Does anyone have any more news/information on this project? It's been awfully quiet for a long time.

So it looks like this one will be on the new rail line downtown on Rusk. This is actually a real good location as it located is in the middle of MMP and the Discovery Green / GRB . It should attract visitors attending all 3 of these places. I think the center of downtown (East -West axis book ended by GRB and the Hobby Center) is starting to look like it is going to be pretty dense with this project, disco Green, One Park, Pavilions, Disco Tower, Embassy Suites, Main Place and others to be built along this axis.

It's not that they don't know how to design around Buffalo Bayou. The Buffalo Bayou project put a lot of time and effort into rethinking how the bayou downtown could be redeveloped. The problem is lack of money and commitment to do it.

Of course I know this (the Partnership) I'm talking about how the city grew and organized itself. They didn't think about the bayou as an asset. Imagine if the city (from the beginning) created a garden bayou district down to the bayou with architectural features and vegetation unique to Houston complete with breezeways, shade, housing, reaturants, retail, recreation, entertainment features mixed with nature that evolved over generations. It would be similar San Antonio but instead of a Spanish theme we would have a more lush bayou/ garden theme. This water feature should have been a great tourist destination and an inviting and unique part of downtown.

Case in point to reality I- 45 is built over the bayou instead of utilizing it as a bayou district and the Hobby center intentionally turned its back to the bayou during the design phase. I'm well aware and support the Buffalo Bayou plan. It is going to be difficult for them because 1) like you said they have to raise money and 2) they will be working to try to beautify something that has been abused for generations. I doubt the partnership can 'move the freeway' but I like that they are doing what they can with what is availiable but go back and look at their scheme and imagine the potential if everything was a blank slate. It would be very special and could define our city if it had been done right from the beginning.

I'm entering this thread late, but here's my 2 cents. I don't think any of these downtown projects (pavilions or bayou place) will really succeed if the target is mostly local people. We need to attract tourists. It kills me everytime I hear someone from outside Texas raving about San Antonio and RIVERWALK!!! Houston has much more to offer than San Antonio, but it's not packaged up as neatly and pleasingly as riverwalk, so tourists can't figure out where they're "supposed" to go. We need to copy SA. We need to turn the Bayou into Riverwalk and call it something else and suddenly we'll have a downtown scene.

It's sad that Houston has what could be have been gem of a waterway in the Buffalo Bayou downtown but didn't know how to or didn't care to design around it. Imagine if they created a bayou garden district around the bayou and actually honored it with unique 'houston' architecture instead of turning their backs on it.

So, I'm a first time home buyer and I'm thinking of looking at townhomes in the inner loop. Where do I begin? Where would I find information for those availiable? Can anyone recommend designers/ builders that do quality work and those who do poor work? What else should I be looking for?

I'd appreciate any information, opinions, input, or experiences you'd like to share.

Thanks

What a tragedy! This building would've been gorgeous. Perhaps it can be resurrected and physically manifested downtown in the future. AWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm privy to the same sort of optimism as lockmat. Here's hoping [cross fingers].

Has anyone checked with AIM lately on what their future plans are? AIM is a large international Houston company and the fact that they commissioned a firm to design a building meant that they were in need of more office space at one point. The mutual fund industry has been doing pretty well the past couple of years (the last weeks excluded) so maybe this project may be reincarnated in some other form. Hopefully, the renaissance downtown would have persuaded them to build their new building there. Or maybe they plan on being a major tenant in one of the new towers going up but that 'dead' design would look very good downtown. I'm just speculating here but imagine seeing that building near disco green. It would be a stunning backdrop.

Does anyone have a timeline for when they plan to start construction for this one?

RedScare, why must people here argue everything? The primary point wasn't to compare Chicago vs. Houston it was to point out that Chicago is often thought by a whole bunch of more people to have more elements of an urban landscape and to be a more successful model of a city than Houston. Chicago wasn't perfect either- no city is perfect. They probably have torn down more buildings than Houston but as you said the scale is way bigger there and would you honestly say that modern downtown Chicago is dotted today by so many surface parking lots and a lack of connectivity?

Yes, Chicago was fueled early on by eastern money which lead to an accelerated population growth but Houston, before the car, also operated as a somewhat dense unit in Houston terms. I f you want to ignore the city beautification movement that originated in Chicago or even the birth of the modern highrise or the fact that Chicago has zoning controlling growth in its cbd, or the fact that Chicago augmented their public transportation system instead of tearing it out then fine but the point is to express that Houston had some elements of an urban downtown. I dare you to find one person who honestly believes Houston did a better job of preserving its city core than did Chicago because it seems as if Houston has many problems it is trying to correct.