troyboy

^^^^^

What???? Still don't follow your logic. But your intelligence could just be far superior to mine or you could be much dumber than me...who's to say.

If

Troyboy's two posts are a bit conflicting. In one, he complains of a long walk in Houston, in the next, Fort Worth is too small. I suppose it is a good thing he lives in Dallas, since it is just the right size, according to his post.

Let me clarify it for you: Our long walk had nothing to do with the pysical walk. I meant the walk was long, because of the harrasment by panhandlers and homeless, some mean looks by some young thuggy looking individuals loittering around, and the same car with blaring bass passed us at least three times as if they were following us. I should have just said scary walk. And regarding FW's small downtown, to clarify my comment. I found FW's downtown incredibly small for a city of 600,000 people. It takes no time at all to walk the entire downtown area, plus few tall buildings....that's all. How you came to the conclusion that I was saying Dallas is just right is way beyond me. I guess whatever it takes to keep a tired rivalry going.

Fortunately, Fort Worth isn't all that far away, and it's a great place to spend some time.

Since I've been in Dallas, I've heard about FW's downtown. I've been down there a few times at night, and it is very clean and safe, and plenty of people. But DTFW is also very SMALL (I couldn't believe how small downtown is) and I found the offerings (bars, restuarants, clubs) very bland...lot of chain bars and restuarants. Nothing funky, cool, or edgy. The one danceclub is one of those where there's several clubs under one roof. It's the cheeziest place I had been in...ever. I don't know why some people in Dallas call it funkytown when the city is funkless. Instead of feeling like in an urban city, I felt like I was in a section of Disneyland.

I'm so glad I'm not from this area, so I have the pleasure of not getting caught up in the tired ole Houston v Dallas crap. There's a lot I like about both cities. I wasn't even aware of a rivalry until I found this forum. Anyway to say there's nothing going on in downtown Dallas is crazy. I work in Fountain Place, next door to the Fairmount. Friday after work, I joined four coworkers for happy hour at Campizi's. We didn't leave downtown till 3 A.M. We barhopped and clubbed for hours, so I don't know what Mr. Fella is talking about.

The last time I was in Houston, I had a room at the Doubletree downtown. On a Thursday night, my brother and I decided to walk to where the "action was" on Main St. Let me tell you, that was one long scary walk. And there wasn't that much action. It was much better on Friday night, but this time we took a cab.

When the four of us go out to dinner etc., people know. You're not that hip troyboy, but that's ok. We love you anyway. Houston is definitely the most tolerant city in this part of the nation and is only getting better. I love my town and feel comfortable here. Shucks, we have domestic partner benefits at work now. Of course it is costing me a fortune to keep my sweetheart in insurance but it is so worth it. Two thumbs way up for Houston's tolerance.

One or both of your friends or possibly yourself must be screamers or you guys are doing something most "straight" guys wouldn't do with one another (holding hands or some other overly affectionate display). One of my best friends is gay, and I never knew he and his boyfriend were a couple until they came out to me. Not because I'm unhip, but because they never did anything outwardly that would make me and most of our mutual friends think they were a couple, and they still don't. I waited tables years ago in a very gay-friendly restuarant in DC. And I've seen my share of straight masculine looking/acting guys, that I might not have thought were gay, suddenly start some serious lip-locking. So if people at let's say Bennigan's in Sugarland, know your friends are an interracial gay couple, it's probably because of something they're doing.

And I haven't really spent enough time in Houston to get a feel for how tolerant it is. This is not to get the Dallas/Houston crap started, but I was blown away at how gay tolerant Dallas is. I have been out in the Montrose area, and it's a lot of fun. But I've got to say the Cedar Springs/ Oaklawn area is a lot more vibrant. And I've always considered Dallas as one of the gayest cities I've ever seen. (Not that there's anything wrong with that)

Don't under estimate Houston's tolerance. Interracial couples don't get a second look. My best friends: a black and white couple (oh, by the way, gay).

Unless your friends are the flamboyant, sterotypical gay types, and hang out in areas outside of Montrose, I think when most people see two guys hanging out together, one black, one white, most people are more likely to think they're friends, not a gay couple. Or maybe I'm not as hip as I think I am.

We are similar that people from Dallas talk down on our cities.

Although I currently live here, I'm not from Dallas at all, and do not get into the tired Dallas v. FW crap. As usual it seems another person from Fort Worth's inferiority complex is starting to show. I did not talk down your fine city, I said I liked it. All I said was I, personally, see little similarity between Fort Worth and Houston. I don't get into the Dallas v. Houston stuff either. Houston just happens to be my favorite city in Texas...not Dallas. If I had to list my favorite cities in Texas it would go...1. Houston, 2. Austin, 3. Dallas,

4. Galveston, 5., San Antonio, and 6. Fort Worth...sorry.

I think you'll fit into the Houston scene just fine. Plenty of everthing you seem to find interesting. My parents have retired to the Houston area, so I visit often. I don't see any similarities to Houston and Fort Worth. Houston is a diverse, urban, thriving metropolis. I always feel like I'm in a large city there. When I've visited Fort Worth, I've always felt like I was in a small, quaint, quiet town. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I enjoy Fort Worth just fine, but I see very little similar to Houston, IMHO.

That may not be the best location as I work on the northern edge of downtown, and walk to UM often for lunch. It's amazing how many people (workers) around this area don't know UM exists. I think a more visable location would have been better. It's great that downtown residents are shopping at UM, but it could definitely use the revenue from office workers too.

Ah....no. It is in Tarrant County. If anyone gets to claim it, that would have to be Fort Worth. But seeing that the University of Texas system has identified it as being "the University of Texas at ARLINGTON", I think Arlington gets to claim it.

That's debatable, as before I was transferred to Dallas, I got tons of DFW literature and many times Arlington identified itself as a Dallas surburb. From what I've always heard, Arlington has had a history of wanting very little to do with FW and has always attached itself to Dallas. Personally, I can't stand the place, but this isn't the thread for that.

That's true but that has little to do with my post. The game of development is often risky. So are you saying don't build anything else because it might go bankrupt??. Houston's office space was hit hard in the 80's, yet the city has added lots of space since then. Besides Dallas, Austin, Atlanta, Houston, Seattle, etc are building a lot more than just office space. So is fear of bankruptcy the reason developers move slower in FW or as someone put it on the Dallas forum, Fort Worth is an unproven market in a lot of regards, especially leasable office space, so developers are a lot more cautious there then in cities with a proven track record of successes.

North Texas, I have to disagree with some of your comments. Fort Worth did get on the bandwagon before Dallas regarding the downtown rejuvenation. But most of that was over ten years ago, since that time, Dallas has waaaay surpassed FW in terms of urban development. Not just Victory and Uptown are booming with new development, but so is Cedars, Bishop Arts/Oak Cliff, Oaklawn, SMU/Mockingbird Station, Lower Greenville, Bryan Place/East Dallas, not to Mention the huge urban style retail/hotel/residential/office development going across from Northpark, that will be just as big as North Park. Also the transformation of many of the surburban apartment complexes around the Galleria are being torn down and redeveloped into urban residential and retail. Change is happening all over Dallas, not just in one area. Dallas has left FW behind in terms of urban development, but so have many smaller and similar sized cities, look at Austin, Atlanta, Charolotte, Seattle, Nashville, Miami. I do like Fort Worth and what the city is doing is great, but its development is slow in comparison to other cities. Also skylines are representative of a city's growth, prosperity, evolution, imagination and creativity. That's why most cities desire skycrapers and highrises, they do make an impression.

It's bad, admittedly... but it's not THAT bad. I personally think the worst skyline award would have to go to El Paso, San Antonio, or Phoenix... SA and PHX are bigger cities than FW with smaller skylines.

As far as cities with a population over 500,000 go, FW's skyline is horrible and one of the smallest. I've always found it butt ugly and although I don't visit the city often, I've always thought I would hate to look at that everyday. Phoenix's skyline is pretty bad, but I don't mind San Antonio's and I think between SA and FW, you'll probably see SA's skyline start to change and evolve. It seem's FW has some impotency issues, as it seems to have a problem getting anything of noticable size and height erected.

You're right the Dallas forum can get ugly sometimes in regards to other cities. But I must disagree with it's attitutude about FW. It seems the people on the FW fourm (I visit it ocassionly) bash Dallas alot more than Dallas bashes FW. Dallasites seems to mention FW in passing and if something is posted about FW, it's discussed briefly and everyone moves on. I think Dallasites think FW is not in the "big" city league ( to which I somewhat agree). FW has done some decent things downtown, but it has no skyline and it's lagging behind other cities in terms of urban development. Dallas forum members seem much more concerned with Houston, Austin, Atlanta, Chicago, L.A. etc. Cities they feel Dallas is in more "competition" (can't think of a better word) with.

I'm going to be in Houston over July 4th weekend. I could use some good ole stick-to-your-ribs soul food.

I've heard good things about this place. Anyone eaten there. How was it? I'm dying to try it.

Oh, I hate Reunion Tower too. We use to call it Dallas' penis. But you are right, the best view of DTFW is that southern view from I-35. I don't believe FW ever established itself as a big corporate/business city. Which is why tall buildings just don't seem to get built there. The Pier One Building is okay, but what Radioshack did is horribly disappointing and contributes nothing to the skyline.

San Antonio's skyline doesn't seem very dense, but it has much better buildings than Fort Worth, not all big bland boxes.

Doesn't downtown Fort Worth have like only 4 or 5 class A speculative towers? All under 40 stories?? The same 4 or five since the mid 80's? Also downtown Fort Worth is very small. To compare it's leasabilty with Dallas or Houston is absurd. I do find the downtown charming, but Fort Worth has got to have the worst skyline of any large city in the country. It looks like a bomb hit it.

l've lived in Dallas for four years and visit FW often to spend time with relatives. Although I do find FW nice and what they've done with downtown is amazing ( I used to visit FW as a kid and rember what downtown was like in the 80's), it doesn't surprise me people find it hard to believe FW has the population it does. I couldn't believe it either, mainly because if you spend some time in the city, FW feels like a much, much smaller town. Austin, Atlanta, Seattle, and lots of smaller cities seem to be much more urban and fast-paced, this could be a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. Downtown hops on the weekend, but the rest of the city is dead after 11pm, and there's very little nightime traffic on the freeways. There are developments going on around downtown, but nothing close to what's going on in Atlanta, and what's going on here in Dallas dwarfs development in FW. And most of the growth in FW is cookie cutter surbuban style housing and retail developments. I know FW is half the size of Dallas, but Dallas looks five times bigger. Also, I don't know what jobs these FW people are talking about. Do a monster search in Dallas than do on for FW. Three of my FW relatives work in Dallas and two coworkers live in FW. They all say the same thing, FW has few professional jobs and you make more in Dallas doing the same job in FW. My post is no attak against FW, I do like the city alot. But it just doesn't seem like a city with a 600,000 population. Far from it.

It's no suprise that shops are closing at Willowbend. That mall was a major mistake and has been having difficulty drawing people there since it opened. I went once out of curiosity last year, and on a beautiful springtime Saturday afternoon, the place was far from hopping. I'm no expert developer, but even I thought it was a bad idea to put this "upscale" mall smack between the Galleria and Stonebriar.

I was suprised after moving to Dallas what a crappy neighborhood exists around the Dallas Galleria. It looks good if you're on the tollway, but don't be fooled. If you approach the mall from Noel, Montford, or Frankford there are lots of rundown apartments and shopping centers, a large immigrant population and gangs are also a problem in the area.

It's a high crime area also. When I first moved here my first trip to the Galleria was by way of Montford, I couldn't believe we were going to an upscale, luxury shopping center from what I was seeing. However, they are trying to clean it up now. Last time I was there, they had torn down one really crappy complex and a urban style shopping center is going on the site. I wish them luck.

^^^^^^

I read that because FW is less than half developed and has tons of vacant land, it is very possible that FW will surpass Dallas in population. Dallas is pretty built out, also it still mainly ignores anything south of 1-30. The intown building boom is not really attracting families. Dallas has horrible schools and high crime and a ridiculous, corrupt city government. Fort Worth has a chance to learn from Dallas's mistakes, and keep people from fleeing the city like they have done in Dallas. I don't know if you've driven around FW lately, but the housing boom is incredible.

I live here in Dallas and although I like the store, I'm skeptical if it will make it. It seems to be more dependant on downtown workers than residents. Most of whom are dining at the very mediocre cafe and not buying groceries. I've dropped in every weekend since the opening and have not seen a lot of shopping going on. I hope it makes it but I have my doubts.