troyboy

The city of Dallas had little to do with this tower. As Dallascaper said, it's totally privately funded and only the investors and buyers have anything to lose. If the tower fails, it will surely become apartments, which do very well downtown and will fill up anyway. How is that "bad" for the Arts District? Condos aren't selling like crazy in Houston either. For some reason, developers love Dallas and have for a long time. The 52-story Elm Place tower was vacated a few months ago, and already a developer announced plans for a residential conversion just yesteday. And some other poster said something about Dallas having no natural beauty as if when I think of natural beauty Houston comes to mind. Really? I've been away from this forum for over a year, come back to visit and Dallas is still the topic of conversation.

I guess I don't understand that unless you're looking to start a flame war, why would anyone who didn't care about or like Dallas of DFW even visit and comment on the Dallas thread? I never visit the El Paso one. Not that I don't like El Paso, I'm just not interested in what goes on there. When I lived in Houston and was considering moving to Dallas, I used the DFW thread as a way to find out what was going on there. I thought that was what the thread was for, so I wouldn't find it odd that the Mardi Gras event would be posted here. I visit the Austin thread now that a good friend of mine from Houston has moved there and I visit the city often. I guess if Houstonites don't want to know about Dallas, yet feel compelled to visit this thread, only to get angered by it, I would suggest to the administrators that it and all other city threads be removed as I've seen the same thing a few times on the Austin thread.

I do agree with you to some degree,but I can say that alot of the more popular run down neighborhoods seem to be on the right track in regards to infrastructure and some key developments. So with this being said.......I really dont see a big difference between the status of Dallas as in any other U.S.Big city..........But I guess its because all news cant be good news and any city has and will always have room for improvement.......Trust me ....were getting it right...and if not....we'll just keep tryin until we do.......i mean....Isn't that what dallas has a reputation for?......go figure

Agreed. Dallas' has the same problems that most large U.S cities, including Houston have. My folks retired to Sugar Land, and I have a sister in another Houston burb. Ask them why the don't live in the city and they'll cite the same reasons I've heard surburb dwellers use in regards to just about any city I've been in. The city is s#@t..bad schools, homeless people, high crime, and rundown neighborhoods. Houston has many of the same problems Dallas' does, the Chronicle just didn't do a long, tired article about them, predicting gloom and doom. In the years since that article Dallas' has made some incredible strides and things here are only getting better.

Exactly! How you make a statement like "and Houston's skyline sits kinda dark?? Maybe they think Dallas is, dare I say it, ..more vibrant. It certainly looks it." with a straight face is beyond me. I am in Big-D at least once a month and it's downtown area (including Victory) is no where near as vibrant as Houston's.

I don't make that statement to incite a flame war, but when biased, and unfounded statements like this are made, they have to be called out.

Can you, oh...I don't know......READ!!?? I didn't say I thought Dallas was more vibrant, or asked if you thought it was more vibrant. Only offered a possible reason to why developers and building owners tend to enjoy lighting up buildings here. I don't care how vibrant or not vibrant I think a city is..I don't own any skyscrapers to light and and I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably don't either.

It's the owners of these buildings that CHOOSE to light them up. Many of the same owners have buildings in Houston that they choose not to light up. I don't think the city of Dallas is pushing owners to light up their buildings, remember a few months ago a council member proposed making building owners turn their lights off. So why do building owners like brightly lit towers in Dallas.. and Houston's skyline sits kinda dark?? Maybe they think Dallas is, dare I say it, ..more vibrant. It certainly looks it.

This project will most likely be redesigned before construction starts and will not have those silly swirly towers. Everything else looks cool.

Yeah, you showed your true bias trashing downtown Fort Worth, leaving the unstated but clear impression that desolate downtown Dallas trumps it.

Everyone has their own opinions, but I suggest that the "soulless" things you mention are actually the SOUL of Fort Worth. Ironically, the things that you suggest are the soul of other cities are actually not soul, but plastic and fake. MY opinion is you got it so completely backwards as to be laughable.

I would love for you to show me where I said downtown Dallas trumps DTFW. I gave my impressions of FW coming from someone who has never been there. And I even said they were clearly my impressions, yours may differ. What's laughable is your belief that my very SUBJECTIVE opinions are wrong and your very SUBJECTIVE opinions are right. I would never be so stupid to try to argue something so moot. We might as well argue which color is more pretty..blue or red.

I understand you have your opinion and all but I think you're half way kidding yourself about downtown Fort Worth. Downtown Dallas can only hope to ever have half the vibrance and excitement of downtown Fort Worth. Fort Worth's downtown even knocks dt Houston to the ground when it comes to touristy things and proximity of pedestrian friendly establishments (although dt Houston is starting to catch up). Main Street Square can only get better once the east side of downtown's developments get to rocking and rolling (i.e. Houston Pavilions/ Discovery green).

Even though i like alot of what Dallas is doing with their city center, you can't discredit Fort Worth for having one of the most awesome downtowns in the state of Texas.

Thank you for agreeing with me. I didn't say FW's downtown was bad, but it is just that...very touristy..like a shopping mall.

These are only my opinions feel free to disagee if you want. I don't care much about Fort Worth and am not very passionate on the subject, so I really don't care how my opinions are peceieved. I don't care how "vibrant" the downtown is the city is boring overall. Gee, I wonder why it never gets noticed.

Although I'm getting off the subject so to speak, I wish some of our Dallas posters would read the above line by Willy1. It might stop some of the dribble regarding their claim to Ft Worth.

I have said 200 times that the Fort Worthians I know (and I know a few) despise the idea of Dallas claiming it in their city rankings... Or should I say metro rankings.

I' havent' been here long enough to have an anti Fort Worth sentiment, and from the Dallas side of the metroplex, I wonder if there really is one. I say that because I've been in Dallas for several years now and I rarely hear anyone from Dallas even mention Fort Worth..good or bad. I do get tired of FW folk whining about being overshadowed by Dallas. From what I've seen Dallas was the more competitive and progressive city, plain and simple. How do you expect to compete with a city in dire need of attention (Dallas) by claiming your city (FW) is slow paced, laid back, historic, small town country feelin', etc. ( That seems to be the mantra of the city.) Well then don't be shocked that the city that desires to be modern and cosmpolitan continues to eclipse you...regardless of what your population may climb to.

When I moved to Texas (Houston), I had never heard of Fort Worth. I believe I thought Fort Worth was who or what the Dallas airport was named after. When I move to Dallas, I became really good friends with a coworker who lives in FW, so I compromise and go there ocassionally. My first visit there, I couldn't believe how slow the place was. I read the city had 600,00 people. It felt like maybe half that. Downtown was cute, but I would hardly call it cosmopolitan or big city. It was like a small town downtown square and not exciting at all at night. Everything seems very vanilla and no real soul or funkiness. The streets around the city are extremely quite on weekends and downtown is really the only place to go to do anything. (Sorry, I'm not into Stockyards cowboy stuff..too Disney) Unforturnately after one visit you kinda see everything to see in downtown FW and after a few more visits you've eaten everywhere worth eating. (Too many chains) .

Also, I was surprised at how little corporate presence the city has and how industrial ( and sorry, unattractive) it is. Hence my comment about skysrapers, or lack thereof. It really ain't that kind of city. And Fort Worth is growing, but the vast majority of the growth seems to be the type most cities are trying to curb..miles and miles of cheap subdivisons and strip malls.

Of course, these are just my observations of a city that I knew nothing about. I'm sure others are different.

Compared to what Fort Worth is doing, which is the correct thing, the city of Dallas is subsidizing corporations to over build office space in its Uptown/Downtown area at taxpayer expense. The smothered taxpayer in this case represents the potential for the development of small businesses in the future.

Uhh..both Radioshack and Pier 1 got huge tax incentives to build their buildings in Fort Worth...both companies are struggling now by the way. The city also gave sizeable incentive to Cabella's to build that store they claimed would be a major tourist draw. The reception of the store has been lukewarm. And lets not forget the mess going on with the now 300 million plus dollar Jr. College Tarrant County is building. And didn't the Omni hotel receive incentives as well. Fort Worth is no different than any other city in the country in regards to the incentive craze.

And Fort Worth is lacking skysrcrapers and office buildings because its economy is much more industrial based and the city is just more blue collar. The city has warehouses everywhere. And I don't live there, but I've always heard jobs paid less and were much fewer in Fort Worth.

The city just simply isn't very progressive and that ain't Dallas' fault... And if the populaiton swells to the million plus mark, who cares, FW will simply be the largest least known city in the country.

Totally! I only went once but I guess I went on a good night.

What did they decide to do after the fire? Has it been totally razed?

Right now there's a nursery (they may sell produce too) on the site. But if I'm not mistaken, a mixed-use development is planned there.

Speaking of those cool houses, I understand they have done a good job of keeping the McMansion's at bay. Good stuff.

Uh...Not really.

I wonder how troyboy would describe west Dallas....or how about south Dallas....or, maybe east Dallas....how about anywhere but North Dallas?

Call it what you will, but I'll take "blue collar" Fort Worth any day.

Can you read?? I said every city has it's rundown areas. I would describe these areas of Dallas much the same way, I would describe lots of Houston, Atlanta, or Chicago. As I said, all large cities have rundown, blue collar areas, but FW has more than its fair share and a general blue-collar vibe, IMO. Houston has huge industrial petroleum operations, miles of warehouse, and shipping yards but it still feels like a modern, progressive city vibe to me...Fort Worth..not so much.

You can have blue collar FW, what do I care?

wrong thread..sorry

wrong thread..sorry

If you were to plop a New Yorker or someone from Europe in the middle of Dallas or Houston, they would see no real difference. The skylines, (that we argue about constantly), the restaurants, the culture....its all Texas. Looking at this discussion from a more International perspective, the cities are practically identical. Think about how different Rome is from Paris, or Tokyo from Mumbai. Now those are different cities.

My sister's boyfriend from England said the exact same thing.

willy1:

I'm not stirring any pot or trying to berate your city. But sorry from what I've seen FW is more blue collar than white...by far. So there's old money in FW. I can't think of any decent sized city that doesn't have old money and wealthy families. So nothing special there. Granted I haven't spent much time in FW...I never wanted to. But from what I saw, the downtown is nice, not in a big city way, but in a small town touristy sense. The restaurants and other offerings are very middle of the road, anytown USA, with very little uniqueness or funkiness. And there's nothing wrong with that.. as it is clean, familiar and safe and brings life to DTFW. Downtown Dallas has a long way to go, but I don't want it to turn into that. There's too may chains around here already.

There's some beautiful neighborhoods on the west side and around the zoo, but the vast majority of the inner loop of FW is rundown as heck, full of industrial businesses and warehouses as is most of south FW, except the SW half aound Hulen and Byrant Irving. Which seems to have better newer housing, but once again, horrible sprawling strip centers and big parking lots. The entire Northside around the stockyards is a wasteland as is most of the Eastside. Every city has rundown areas, but FW seems to have more than its fair share. The area of the most growth, North FW , around Alliance is MOSTLY low rent sprawl at its worst....cheap subdivison after cheap subdivison. The largest boom to the FW economy in years has been Alliance which is industrial based and now the next boom to the FW economy (according to Rowlett) is gas wells.... and it's not a blue collar town?? You are still ten times more likely to see warehouses going up than office buildings in FW. When I read the business pages it seems new businesses in FW are almost always industrial in nature.

I remember the first time I visited FW, I knew nothing about it at all and my first impression was "this town is really blue collar". I'm not saying there are no white-collar jobs in FW as that would be silly. But sorry, to me and many people I've spoken to, FW gives off a very blue-collar feel

troyboy

Today, 11:24 AM Post #8

Group: Members

Posts: 104

Joined: Tuesday, August 9th, 2005

From: Dallas

Member No.: 1,129

Oh you caught me, I'm a big liar and a fraud!!...You're so smart!!! Imagine how silly I feel, claiming I'm not from Dallas when "Dallas" is right there under my name.

I'm not Dallas or Texas born, Brainiac...so therefore I have no biasis for either city and play no part in any city rivalries. I didn't think I needed to clarify any further, but now I know better.

Like I said, conniptions...

If you want to call stating the obvious ( the different economic leauge thing is obvious, FW being a dump , industrial city is just my opinion) a conniption then feel free. I'm not even from Dallas or Texas and have no time for silly city rivalries, but I know a crazy opinion backed by not one concrete fact when I read one. Also, I found the thread on the DFW forum. It seemed to me noone really took it seriously and the thread turned into poke a few laughs at FW and Dallas, that is when it didn't wander into a totally different subject altogether. There seemed to be much more laughs over the editorial than fits.

That editorial is so ridiculous it's laughable. It can't be real. Fort Worth is already a really unattractive, very blue collar city, so now gas wells are going to be all over the place?..Nice. And because of gas drilling Fort Worth, with its four "skyscrapers", is going to become a bigger player than economic powerhouses Houston & Dallas. Really? I'm sure Dallas is really concerned. One drive around each city and it's clear these cities are not even in the same economic leauge and probally never will be.

We like Fort Worth.

Translation...Skyscraperless, redneck, anti-cosmpolitan Fort Worth, with it's small-town slowness and cows running in the streets is non- threatening and doesn't make insecure Houston forum members insecure. Which is why "we" like it.

Now why do you say you're 18? You forget that some of us have been visiting this forum for a while and remember your posts. You said you were 21 like three years ago?

From what I understand, after 22 years of age, you're no longer a twink. So it pays to knock off a few years and prolong your twink appeal.

There are several gay guys on the dallasmetropolis forum that I'm' sure can help you out. I do know the Cedar Springs gay strip has lots of places that are not bars where you can chill out with your laptap or a book. There's a really cool sandwich place, Buli, that's an awesome place to chill out with friends. Plus the food is good.

I'm still hoping that the lighting of that square is just temporary and the lighting scheme will change. I don't hate it, but I'm defintely not crazy about it.