Favorite Freeway (or Tollway)

[UrbaNerd]

Various views from Houston's freeways:

[kjb434]

You need to get some new pics of the South Freeway (SH288) with all the new greenery. The median has been densely planted and in a few years will be absolutely beautiful.

[ssullivan]

Yeah that section of the 288 median will look great. Unfortunately the new plantings only extend for a short distance south of the interchange with 59. Maybe they'll eventually extend it the rest of the way to 610.

Of course once the HCTRA decides to go in there and build HOT lanes it will all be destroyed.

[Lowbrow]

Does that constitute a Green Belt for Houston??

I drive this stretch daily and have wondered the cross country skiing posibilities if it ever snowed. (more than 2 inches) Think theyde come arrest me?

I know during Allison I tried to talk my company into running a bay cable seismic boat up that corridor... I mean how many times do you have that opportunity?

[Perimeter285]

Hands down, US 59 Southwest Freeway between Kirby and Spur 527. How could anyone not agree? It's the one freeway with the most attention to aesthetics, and even though it's under construction, the part that is finished is awesome.

Honorable mentions to the West Belt through Memorial Bend and I-10 through the Heights. As you can tell, I like depressed freeways. So they flood a little every once in a while...get over it and build more of them in Houston!

This is the biggest disappointment with the West Loop reconstruction. There is no question that this should have been built as a depressed freeway.

[kjb434]

If you are willing to use tax payer money to pay for $8-$10 per cubic yard of dirt they'll have to haul off, then you can handle the public relations nightmare.

The dirt removal will reach into the millions of cubic yards. Depressed freeways are rare these days. The extension of US 59 being depressed with the construction of Spur 527 came at an additional cost of over $30 million. TxDOT didn't want to spend money on this, but the community pushed forward and got the changes made.

The central expressway in Dallas is beautiful through its depressed portions, but it was already depressed, they just had to widen it a bit. The cost wasn't enormous enough to stop them.

[Hunter]

The San Jacinto monument is closer to 225 than it is to 10 - and is technically in Deer Park (I think - if not it's in Pasadena). On the map you posted above it's at the north end of Hwy. 134. Anyway I know what you meant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually the Momument is in La Porte but only by default. I do not know why but that area of land was deeded to the City of LA Porte years ago.

You are right, but isn't the monument in La Porte? I always thought it was right off of I 10, which of coarse didn't exist when it was built, but you get my drift...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can access the Momument from I-10 by crossing the ferry but as it stands now only State HWY 225, 146 and Spencer Hwy pass thruogh La Porte. Fairmont as well but that is not considered a hwy yet.

[Perimeter285]

If you are willing to use tax payer money to pay for $8-$10 per cubic yard of dirt they'll have to haul off, then you can handle the public relations nightmare.

The dirt removal will reach into the millions of cubic yards.  Depressed freeways are rare these days.  The extension of US 59 being depressed with the construction of Spur 527 came at an additional cost of over $30 million.  TxDOT didn't want to spend money on this, but the community pushed forward and got the changes made.

The central expressway in Dallas is beautiful through its depressed portions, but it  was already depressed, they just had to widen it a bit.  The cost wasn't enormous enough to stop them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it hard to imagine that digging a trench costs significantly more that these overwroght, overengineered concrete nightmares that pass for freeways in Houston. You could be right, though.

And you hit on another point of mine: they do it all the time in DFW and lots of other Texas cities. Why is freeway design in Houston so clumsy in comparison? All I can think is that maybe they know something we don't as far as political influence in Austin.

[kjb434]

^^^

Figure this. The amount of concrete to build a depressed freeway is equal to or greater than an at grade freeway particularly in an urban area. If you watched the construction of the depressed portion of US 59, they had to reiforce all the soil with a cemem mixture to produce a solid wall. Later they come back with the pretty wall that is really just window dressing. On top of that, the same amount is needed for the pavement that would be used in the at grade concept.

Another big point is that San Antonio, Metroplex, Austin, and even El Paso have enough elevation change to make the draining of a depressed freeway not much of a challenge, but in Houston, pump stations are needed which runs into the millions to build and to maintain. Some sections of depressed freeways in Houston, such as I-10 do not use Pump stations because it has some release into the bayous, but problems still exist for intense rains that last about 6 hours. Tropical Storm Allison is no the only storm that has flooded the I-10 section from Shepherd to Washington. It has happend since then also although not to the same degree, but it was enough to leave cars stranded at the center of the freeway for a couple of hours. until the waters could recede.

I don't think Houston's freeways are that clumsy. Most of our Freeways are old. The new section were buillt before the beautification concepts of freeway building hit Texas. Newer freeway projects are addressing the aesthics, but community support is what really drives this. TxDOT has no incentive to make freeways beautiful, it is the communities input that brings this on. The new Katy Freeway will have over a 1000 new trees planted along with other plants along the corridor plus a sleek profile that man freeways don't have in this city.

Coalitions in this city are the ones who push for beatifying freeways before and after construction. I-45 north of downtown just recieved a huge planting of trees as did SH 288. TxDOT is willing to work with the community leaders to produce something they want. Politicians realize that stopping any of these projects is not an option, but compromise to please the community and to achieve TxDOT's goal.

DFW's central expressway had huge imput to place all of the architectural details it recieved such at the free standing columns and the crossover bridges.

[VelvetJ]

It's amazing how much more informed people in other cities are compared to Houstonians regarding what is done in our city.

kjb434, do you think if enough Houstonians made it known they were unhappy with the "unfinished rusted/rust pooring down the white girder" look, on most of our freeways, something would be done in terms of painting them or replacing them with concrete? Is TXdot responsible for that? Are Houstonians responsible for this look because we didn't speak up in the design process? I'm really being serious.

[kjb434]

Older bridges that are falling apart is definitely TxDOT's responsibility. It is the main reason TxDOt is replace the 527 Spur into Downtown. The bridges were aging and getting weak. The newer bridges are much stronger and can outlast the olderones.

Many of times the old steel structures just need to be refinished. The municipalities can get involved and helping TxDOT. If it is not on TxDOT's schedule to be refinished, then the city can spend so money to get it done earlier. TxDOT will support it by matching some funds. Also, some bridges are the responsibility of the old railroads. You have to deal with the railroad companies in that situation which means you'll be waiting.

[Gary]

I love the Westpark tollway coming into town. I think the view getting on to the SW freeway is the best in town.

[Perimeter285]

It's amazing how much more informed people in other cities are compared to Houstonians regarding what is done in our city.

kjb434, do you think if enough Houstonians made it known they were unhappy with the "unfinished rusted/rust pooring down the white girder" look, on most of our freeways, something would be done in terms of painting them or replacing them with concrete? Is TXdot responsible for that? Are Houstonians responsible for this look because we didn't speak up in the design process? I'm really being serious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No question in my mind. We don't demand enough. I don't think we've been aware over time how these "small" design decisions have added up to make Houston look twice as ghastly as it should. If we don't start standing up for quality, then we'll never get it.

By the way, does anyone know where to find renderings of the completed West Loop?

[GovernorAggie]

No question in my mind.  We don't demand enough.  I don't think we've been aware over time how these "small" design decisions have added up to make Houston look twice as ghastly as it should.  If we don't start standing up for quality, then we'll never get it.

By the way, does anyone know where to find renderings of the completed West Loop?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can find a couple on the Uptown Houston District's website.

btw, while Houston's freeways can be better-looking, they are definitely not the worst. I was in Miami recently and the I-95/I-395 and I-95/I-195 interchanges look way worse that any of Houston's IMO (except for maybe 10E/610E or 45/610 on both ends or the Pierce Spaghetti Jungle over the Bayou). Throw in that I-95 is running through the ghetto almost the whole way into downtown and you have what you call a "ghastly" situation.

The Dan Ryan in Chicago is a terribly rusted out facility (at least when I saw it last 3 years ago) with the old metal overpasses and the numerous entry and exit ramps from the local and express lanes. However I think the Dan Ryan is about to be rebuilt so that takes care of it.

You'll also be underimpressed by the freeways in Norfolk and definitely New Orleans.

Given your name, are you from Atlanta or in Atlanta?

[Perimeter285]

No, just spent a lot of time there growing up (born and raised in Florida) but I'm proud to call Houston home now.

Speaking of Atlanta, now THERE are some beautiful highways.

Never been to Norfolk, but I agree that New Orleans highways are awful. I-10 through downtown N.O. took out one of the most beautiful oak-lined streets in the city, ironically.

Moving on to another problem I have with Houston freeways is that overwhelmingly the mainlanes pass over the surface streets instead of vice versa. Even if the freeway is not depressed into a trench, this would help a lot. The whole rollercoaster hump thing is, again, clumsy design.

[kjb434]

TxDOT would aggree with you about the rollercoaster hump thing. Optimum freeway design would have minimum grade changes to improve visibility and sight distances. if you notices the freeways taht have been rebuilt have much flatter slopes when crossing over roads compared to older freeways such as US 290 from I-610 to Fairbanks-N. Houston. But cost of building freeways to eliminate this is just too much. The concept of not having a road in a trench and having the cross streets go over the freeway is a rural concept. In high traffic counts for cross streets that interact with the freeway make the geometrics inefficient and potentially dangerous. This is part of the reason that Fry, Mason, Barker Cypress, and GP on the Katy freeway are being switched. The other reason was the the existing railroad which has been gone for years too. Near Richmond and Rosenberg on US 59 are a couple of intersections where the road goes over the freeway. These will eventually be removed when traffic gets worse and the freeway is expanded. Having urban roads over freeways work if the terrain allows. Dallas has a few of these. Actually, one in Richmond on US 59 is like this.

I aggree, I don't like the up and down rolling of the freeway, but its hard to avoid unless you want to spend millions more.

[Perimeter285]

That seems to be the main problem with doing things the right way around here: it costs a little more. TXDOT doesn't seem to have a problem spending a little more money in other cities around Texas in order to do things the right way.

Even so, look at the Katy Freeway. Billions upon billions of dollars for the same old concrete jungle, rollercoaster hump, high-mast lighted nightmare that we've seen time and time again around here. You can dress it up with some trees and embossed overpasses but it's still clumsy. I personally feel like I'm not getting my money's worth on that project.

[GovernorAggie]

I also think that the roller coaster humps are pretty weird.

Perimeter285, I think Atlanta's freeways look good mostly because of the Olympics. A lot of work went into giving that place a face lift. They don't have as much detailed designs in their facilities. They just have the same old MSE hexagonal walls everywhere. But you're right, they do look good (except for I-20W)

[kjb434]

The roller coaster hills on the new Katy Freeway are much flatter with low grades for approaches achieving a safer sight distance.

I really wanted a depressed freeway for the Katy, but I understand where TxDOT comes from and the restrictions they have.

[Perimeter285]

I was reading a column by a woman named Maria Sapova and she wrote something that is very applicable to this topic:

"Communities sensitive to urban design will seek solutions that enhance their skylines and property values. Communities that just focus on the lowest-cost solutions with no regard to aesthetics will pay a price in their long-term economic development potential."

Today's eye on the almighty dollar means less almighty dollars for Houston tomorrow.

[kjb434]

Rail is not an option to solve traffic jams. It's just another choice of commuting. I'm pro-rail too, but I'm not anti-freeway. Rail (in any form) cannot be seen as a solution to traffic. It, just like buses, is just another choice for travel. This is the consensus of transportation and traffic engineers and has been shown in study after study.

[zaphod]

But watch out for the optical illusion near the I-10 split.  10 EB traffic backup appears to be stalled on 59 North.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

could this be part of the reason causing the westpark curve effect??

[uncertaintraveler]

Perhaps this isn't totally on-topic, but I find that the drivers on I-45 going South are by far the worst. Drivers on other freeways are generally decent, but on I-45, they are just maniacs---especially on the section from 610 to the Airline exit.

[kjb434]

I agree totally with you.

I try to avoid I-45 drivers from the Shepherd Curve to I-610. Usually taking Shepherd down is ok for me since I'm heading to the west Heights area anyway.

[monkeemaven]

Even though New Pearland has caused a long stretch of it to royally reek, 288 will always have my heart. I'm also fond of 225 where it ends. The... aroma... of most of it ... is a bit questionable, but I'm perpetually amused by how it fizzles out.

[sevfiv]

288 is by far my favorite - the smell of sharpies along 225 and I-10 east can make me a little lightheaded...heh

[TJones]

Well, of course my favorite one is the NASCAR sponsored, Dale Earnhardt Jr. Beltway 8. I love the part where you try to throw your quarters into the slot machines while your doing 85mph. It's tricky, but I've only missed twice. That poor lady standing next to the machine had to get like 17 stitches in her "fivehead."

[desirous]

Eastex all the way. It's the only one with no traffic.

[TheNiche]

I was reading a column by a woman named Maria Sapova and she wrote something that is very applicable to this topic:

"Communities sensitive to urban design will seek solutions that enhance their skylines and property values. Communities that just focus on the lowest-cost solutions with no regard to aesthetics will pay a price in their long-term economic development potential."

Today's eye on the almighty dollar means less almighty dollars for Houston tomorrow.

A penny saved is a penny earned. So the question basically becomes do you want a set number of several billion pennies today or do you want the unguaranteed possibility of hundreds of millions of additional pennies per year over the span of some forty to fifty years (however long the freeway lasts).

I'd take the money up front and either return it to the taxpayer or establish a Management District in the area that would have been affected by the freeway improvements. Then the Management District, led by members of the community, could decide how best to apportion the money. Perhaps they really don't care about freeway aesthetics and would rather give it to Metro in order to make light rail financially feasible.

Which Freeway/Toll Road(s) is your most enjoyable drive found on?

Does nobody other than me really like the bridge over the Ship Channel on the East Loop? Looking west from there is even better (amazingly) than looking north from 288 at Houston's various skylines.

Edited April 29, 2006 by TheNiche

[foxmulder]

I like the beltway 8 toll bridge and the area around it from 225 to scarborough is smooth sailing most of the time.

[zaphod]

I like flying down the uncongested hardy tollroad and see nothing on the horizon but trees with buildings sticking out. I could care less about if the freeway is landscaped if its lined with run down 60's strip malls.

Edited May 12, 2006 by zaphod

[desirous]

I like flying down the uncongested hardy tollroad and see nothing on the horizon but trees with buildings sticking out. I could care less about if the freeway is landscaped if its lined with run down 60's strip malls.

The Hardy southbound is also perfect for spying Houston smog after a good downpour; it's a starkly brown thin haze hovering over the horizon, in contrast with blue sky.

Edited October 6, 2006 by desirous

[Vertigo58]

Even though New Pearland has caused a long stretch of it to royally reek, 288 will always have my heart. I'm also fond of 225 where it ends. The... aroma... of most of it ... is a bit questionable, but I'm perpetually amused by how it fizzles out.

YES! 288 is the best!

For now anyway, more than likely new development will ruin that nice spacious appearance. Let's enjoy it while we can I say! Cannot beleive people actually think that blasted 59 south is even worth consideration? I'm with JJ on Good Times when he says..... "Dyno-mite!"

[Flashman]

One doesn

[plumber2]

I just read in the Galveston Daily News this morning that TxDOT is prepared to start improvments to Highway 146. Construction would not begin until 2012 which is just 5 years away. That's actually fast in TxDOT years. The plan is to widen the road from 4 to 6 lanes starting at Red Bluff heading south to the Texas City Wye. The TC Wye is the 1-45, 146, 6 interchange for those non Galveston County folks. There would be an express lane through Kemah using the old SP right of way and an adjacent span across Dickinson Bayou. The plan through Seabrook is not quite settled because Harris County moves like a snail on things like this. Land acquisition would be needed along the route in Seabrook. Harris County should have been acquiring the land adjacent to the SP tracks years ago in preperation of this.

[ArchitecturalPRGirl]

I like the 3 hour traffic jam on 290 during rush hour, or the construction and slow-down on I-10 at Memorial City, or the bottleneck at 59 and Shepherd.

No seriously, it's gotta be the Hardy because it has saved my ass so many times from missing my flight. I can go 100 and get to Intercontinental in 20 minutes door-to-door from my house downtown. Now that's good:)