Dallas

[marc]

Has anyone else noticed the construction boom in dowtown Dallas and surrounding areas?

Why isn't this happening in Houston??!!!!

I hate to admit it.....but the downtown Dallas architecture is much more impressive than Houston's, and now it's getting more dense and more impressive! And Dallas just seems to be much cleaner and impressive architecturally and visually.

Why does Houston lag behind them? We're still trying to figure out how mass transit fits here, and they've got DART up and running, and very functional.

I know we all can spend the next month comparing Houston to Dallas. Hell- all year. BUT-

As a native Houstonian who keeps close watch on her goings on, maybe start by looking at skyscraperpage.com and find the Houston Developement thread.

Just some things to look for within the next 3-5 years. Energy Corridor is booming. (midrise commercial and residential) Memorial City/ Towne and Country area (new Hermann-Memorial headquarters). Katy as well as along the Grand Parkway is exploding with growth like there is no tomorrow. Sugar Land is not even recognizable to someone who has not seen it since 2000. The inner loop will get something to the tune of 10+ 30 storey highrises between now and 2010. Midtown is booming. Uptown is booming. Spring is booming. AND- with the implementation of the new Downtown park and cultural center (near the convention center) developers are chomping at the bit to build mid and highrises to surround the park.

Sure- the supertalls like those of the early 80s may not be seen for some time, but just like in other similar cities (Dallas, Denver, Atlanta, San Fran) the midrises make for great fillers and give these cities a denser appearance. Houston is doing the exact same thing. Filling in all the open space between the gargantuans.

I for one like it a lot.

As for comparing skylines. Well, i think it is a matter of taste. I am sure you will get as many Texans who like Dallas as they like Houston. BUT, worldwide, i tend to think among those who are architectural buffs, Houston ranks high up there. What we have is uniqueness. Not that Dallas does not have a couple of impressive skyscrapers, BUT think about, what in Dallas compares to 1500 Louisiana, the BoA building, Heritage Plaza or Williams Tower? Not to mention Penzoil Place? Yes, Dallas' skyline may have a bit more popularity because often it is showcased in movies and definately in the soap, "Dallas". But, then again, think of the building options in SimCity 4000- New York, Chicago, HOUSTON, or contemporary. I really don't see Dallas there.

Houston's slowness? Yes, she is slow to build. BUT, keep in mind, like Dallas, Houston's oil boom and subsequent building boom went bust mid 80's. With that came a lot of vacancies. What you see as slow, i see as prudent. Houston is definately on the upswing. We may never see the skyline field with cranes like in the glory days- but with housing expansion, freeway expansion, lightrail expansion, toll road expansion, and midrise residential/commercial expansion- i honestly don't see how you can say she is stalemate.

m.

[

Why does Houston lag behind them? We're still trying to figure out how mass transit fits here, and they've got DART up and running, and very functional.

I'm just frustrated, and I just don't understand it.

As for public transportation? It is slow in coming. BUT, with the widening of freeways- developement of extensive tollways and such, i think the Light Rail, for now, is only useful in the inner loop. There is going to have to be one MAJOR paradigm shift in the minds of Houstonians before mass transit is embraced like it is in other major cities.

m.

[NDtexan]

As for comparing skylines. Well, i think it is a matter of taste. I am sure you will get as many Texans who like Dallas as they like Houston. BUT, worldwide, i tend to think among those who are architectural buffs, Houston ranks high up there. What we have is uniqueness. Not that Dallas does not have a couple of impressive skyscrapers, BUT think about, what in Dallas compares to 1500 Louisiana, the BoA building, Heritage Plaza or Williams Tower? Not to mention Penzoil Place?

Actually, I think Dallas has a fair amount of buildings that compare (for better or worse) to those in Houston. Here's just a few tall buildings from both cities that somewhat remind me of each other:

Heritage Plaza(Houston) & JPMorganChase Tower(Dallas)...different colors, but Heritage just needs a keyhole and they'd be siblings

Williams Tower(Houston) & BoA Plaza(Dallas)...same basic shape

BoA Center(Houston) & Fountain Place(Dallas)...both have interesting triangular perspectives...btw, Fountain Place is my favorite skyscraper anywhere

Centerpoint Energy Plaza(Houston) & Renaissance Tower(Dallas)..both were first simple rectangular buildings that got renovated with some decorations on top

also...

First City Tower(Houston) & Burnett Plaza(Fort Worth)...both unbelievably ugly

[tcole]

Williams Tower(Houston) & BoA Plaza(Dallas)...same basic shape

In what respect?

[Houston19514]

First City Tower(Houston) & Burnett Plaza(Fort Worth)...both unbelievably ugly

Interesting. I think First City Tower is beautiful. I love those "window wells" that are staggered down the sides. (For those not familiar, they are set in so that they provide windows directly into the elevator lobbies on the various floors)

[NDtexan]

In what respect?

The Williams Tower and BoA don't share the same footprint, but they both are tall rectangular buildings in appearance that have interesting recessed features at each corner of the building. Plus, there's only a 20 ft. height difference between the two.

Like I said they're somewhat similar...somewhat being the key word

Interesting. I think First City Tower is beautiful. I love those "window wells" that are staggered down the sides. (For those not familiar, they are set in so that they provide windows directly into the elevator lobbies on the various floors)

Actually, I do admit that the design works a hundred times better for First City than Burnett, but I'm still not crazy about the design.

[houstonfella]

Speaking of skylines. Houston's skylines:

Houston CBD

Uptown Houston

Greenway Plaza

Texas Med Ctr

Greenspoint

Allen Parkway

Did I miss one? Downtown's tallest building 75 stories; Uptown's 64 stories. The rest, I am not sure, but each skyline has a collection of skyscrapers.

The 30-story Memorial Hermann Tower in TMC and twin Mosaic Towers under construction at Hermann Park are definitely going to change the skyline in that area tremendously. Memorial Hermann is about topped out it appears.

[Houston19514]

The Williams Tower and BoA don't share the same footprint, but they both are tall rectangular buildings in appearance that have interesting recessed features at each corner of the building. Plus, there's only a 20 ft. height difference between the two.

Like I said they're somewhat similar...somewhat being the key word

Actually, I do admit that the design works a hundred times better for First City than Burnett, but I'm still not crazy about the design.

Yeah, after reading your post, I went to look at a pic of the Burnett Plaza on-line. That one is really pretty ugly, and I don't think that of very many buildings. It looks like a very amateurish attempt to copy or imitate First City Tower. . . or something.

[Gary]

Yeah, after reading your post, I went to look at a pic of the Burnett Plaza on-line. That one is really pretty ugly, and I don't think that of very many buildings. It looks like a very amateurish attempt to copy or imitate First City Tower. . . or something.

No joke. Burnett is a bad attempt at copying First City.

[713 To 214]

I'm so proud of y'all. You've actually managed to discuss skyscrapers for a majority of this thread. Keep it up!

BTW, I love Williams Tower in Houston because of its freestanding nature, and its visibility from many parts of the City, miles and miles away.

JP Morgan Chase Building (Keyhole building) is my favorite in Dallas.

[houstonfella]

Speaking of skylines. Houston's skylines:

Houston CBD

Uptown Houston

Greenway Plaza

Texas Med Ctr

Greenspoint

Allen Parkway

Did I miss one? Downtown's tallest building 75 stories; Uptown's 64 stories. The rest, I am not sure, but each skyline has a collection of skyscrapers.

The 30-story Memorial Hermann Tower in TMC and twin Mosaic Towers under construction at Hermann Park are definitely going to change the skyline in that area tremendously. Memorial Hermann is about topped out it appears.

I think I left out Energy Corridor and Woodlands. Is Westchase a skyline?????

In Dallas: Fountain Place is a fav but I like the neon building too (at night). In Houston: BOA, Wells Fargo and Pennzoil are my favs.

[Spades]

Dallas-Fountain Place is my favorite

Houston-Williams Tower is my most favorite scraper in the entire south

[NDtexan]

Speaking of skylines. Houston's skylines:

Houston CBD

Uptown Houston

Greenway Plaza

Texas Med Ctr

Greenspoint

Allen Parkway

Did I miss one? Downtown's tallest building 75 stories; Uptown's 64 stories. The rest, I am not sure, but each skyline has a collection of skyscrapers.

The 30-story Memorial Hermann Tower in TMC and twin Mosaic Towers under construction at Hermann Park are definitely going to change the skyline in that area tremendously. Memorial Hermann is about topped out it appears.

Notable DFW skylines:

DTD

DTFW

Uptown

North Dallas/Galleria area

Richardson Telecom Corridor

Las Colinas

Addison/Tollway

Northwest Highway & Tollway

Stemmons Corridor

Denton

[Ethanra]

Notable DFW skylines:

DTD

DTFW

Uptown

North Dallas/Galleria area

Richardson Telecom Corridor

Las Colinas

Addison/Tollway

Northwest Highway & Tollway

Stemmons Corridor

Denton

They were listing skylines in the city, not the whole 10,000 square mile metro area.

[NDtexan]

They were listing skylines in the city, not the whole 10,000 square mile metro area.

well since the two cities are not the same size in land area, go ahead and list the other skylines in metro houston...what else is there outside of houston anyway? Clear Lake and Galveston maybe? i don't know...

[Montrose1100]

The Williams Tower and BoA don't share the same footprint, but they both are tall rectangular buildings in appearance that have interesting recessed features at each corner of the building. Plus, there's only a 20 ft. height difference between the two.

Like I said they're somewhat similar...somewhat being the key word

Actually, I do admit that the design works a hundred times better for First City than Burnett, but I'm still not crazy about the design.

Your only comparing raw (basic) outlines/skyline. Architectually, Houston & Dallas are completely different.

[rantanamo]

Boy has this forum come full circle. Now you're arguing with each other about Dallas.

[Montrose1100]

Boy has this forum come full circle. Now you're arguing with each other about Dallas.

I didn't say which one was better, or worse. Every city is architectually different.

[Metro Matt]

I think I left out Energy Corridor and Woodlands. Is Westchase a skyline?????

Yes, The Woodlands & Westchase are considered skylines

The tallest in Westchase is something like 330 feet tall with several other 200 footers in the area.

For comparison purposes only, the tallest in the Dallas Galleria skyline is only 350 feet tall.

Anadarko in The Woodlands is around 450 feet tall with many low & mid rises surrounding it they just get lost behind all the 50 foot tall pine trees blanketing the area.

[marc]

Yes, The Woodlands & Westchase are considered skylines

Anadarko in The Woodlands is around 450 feet tall with many low & mid rises surrounding it they just get lost behind all the 50 foot tall pine trees blanketing the area.

As do the ones cropping up in the Spring Branch area. I read in the Houston Chronicle about how that area is going to explode with new development within the next five years including mid-rises and maybe even one 350 footer. I believe it will be leased by an insurance co. i will try to get the article and post its location for you all.

[2112]

This thread is a pointless display of childishness. Good Work!!

[The Great Hizzy!]

Man, I didn't even see this one. Some alleged "Dallas" hater spawns a thread crapping on Houston architecture. If ever a more blatant effort to troll and still seek validation exists, I'd be impressed to see it.

Jesus. The internet is freakin' awesome.

[Jibran]

I'm trying to figure outwhat your talking about. Downtown Dallas is not booming, in fact there vacancy rate is around 26%. As far as Dallas having better downtown architecture, most of the world would dissagree with you. Houston has been booming for 10 years now, with alot more sceduled to go up.

Yeah that might be true but now look at all the construction surrounding the american airlines center we've got the channel 8 buildings underconstruction. I agree that houston has been booming however Dallas is also starting to rise to that level

[TxDave]

Downtown Dallas does have a lot construction currently, besides Victory activity is strong in the surrounding Uptown area and Arts District; generally on the north side of downtown.

Since this is in the 'Skyscrapers' thread, it is worth noting that most of the new construction in Dallas (mostly Uptown) is around 15-30 stories - give or take...

Dallas seems to be filling-in underutilized areas with more "shorter" buildings rather than a few very tall buildings.

Perhaps this infill will help create more sustainable taller buildings in the future, once the neighborhoods become established.

[houstonfella]

Downtown Dallas does have a lot construction currently, besides Victory activity is strong in the surrounding Uptown area and Arts District; generally on the north side of downtown.

Since this is in the 'Skyscrapers' thread, it is worth noting that most of the new construction in Dallas (mostly Uptown) is around 15-30 stories - give or take...

Dallas seems to be filling-in underutilized areas with more "shorter" buildings rather than a few very tall buildings.

Perhaps this infill will help create more sustainable taller buildings in the future, once the neighborhoods become established.

Washington, D.C. is like that. It has a huge urban collage of shorter buildings. But, of course, they don't allow the 70 story ones there. It is kind of cool, but you can walk and walk and walk in that town. The shorter ones in Dallas seem to blend with the taller ones. I think it works great up there.

In Houston, it seems, the taller ones dominate ... not to say that we don't have our share of the midrises etc.

[2112]

I tell you what I'm lookkng forward to - and it allready has began and is in full force - is all the 3 to 5 story infill that is going on all around Midtown and just west of downtown. When you come from I-45 south and approach the pierce elevated interchange, you can see the densness starting to form all around the outside perimeter of downtown. It may not be 10 - 15 story buildings. But 3 to 5 is still pretty cool. And, it's packed in densely. I know if I had the money and was single, that is probably where I would want to live. I keep threatening my wife that I am going to by a weekend getaway townhome somwhere around downtown!!

[houstonfella]

I tell you what I'm lookkng forward to - and it allready has began and is in full force - is all the 3 to 5 story infill that is going on all around Midtown and just west of downtown. When you come from I-45 south and approach the pierce elevated interchange, you can see the densness starting to form all around the outside perimeter of downtown. It may not be 10 - 15 story buildings. But 3 to 5 is still pretty cool. And, it's packed in densely. I know if I had the money and was single, that is probably where I would want to live. I keep threatening my wife that I am going to by a weekend getaway townhome somwhere around downtown!!

You got it right 2112.... those three and four and five story urban developments work particuarly for Midtown and our close in urban thangs...... Of course, it doesn't hurt to have 30 story, twin 30 story residential towers going up here and there and then we tend to forget that Texas Med Ctr is growing so fast that we have to be on top of the game to keep up. H-town, we are a good town and I love my town. There. Does this make sense???

[paulanthony1977]

Has anyone else noticed the construction boom in dowtown Dallas and surrounding areas?

Why isn't this happening in Houston??!!!!

I hate to admit it.....but the downtown Dallas architecture is much more impressive than Houston's, and now it's getting more dense and more impressive! And Dallas just seems to be much cleaner and impressive architecturally and visually.

It just irks me, because I know so many people from Dallas, and they're so cocky.

Why does Houston lag behind them? We're still trying to figure out how mass transit fits here, and they've got DART up and running, and very functional.

I'm just frustrated, and I just don't understand it.

Hello,

Most of the building going on in Uptown Dallas are Hotels and Condo's. I'm from Dallas originally, but then I got out and moved to San Diego, and now Houston. Anyhow, I know that they are building A Ritz Carlton and a Mandarin Oriental hotel in the Uptown area near the Crescent Court. Downtown Dallas itself is pretty lame. I haven't lived in Texas for a while, but the Dallas/Houston feud sounds like the people in San Diego vs. LA.

Good day!

Paul

[totheskies]

Has anyone ever spoke with city officials about why grand projects such as Victory park in Dallas aren't planned here in Houston.

According to what I've read, Victory was in the works a decade ago.

You guys can chirp all you want about how Dallas is "catching up" to Houston....the fact is Houston is slower......and projects are not as well planned as ones in Dallas.

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Dallas is a wonderful city, and has very impressive architecture, but on the whole it is bland. It lacks the excitement and character extremities that can only be found in Houston. The theater district is hard at work to try and imitate the success and grandeur that we have in Houston. METRO-Rail, eventhough a short line, is a very effective system, and its service area is about to more than double. Finally if Houston Pavillions opens successfully next year, it will breathe wonderful life into downtown. Again, I'm grateful to have both cities in the state of Texas, but we have to appreciate what we've got here in Houston.