Herman Brown Park At 400 Mercury Dr.

[TheNiche]

TXDoT seems to have won the battle of Herman Brown Park without firing a shot. With the contracts to extend the Crosby freeway from Uvalde/BW8 to the 610 loop having already been granted, environmentalists completely missed an opportunity to preserve one of their supposedly-beloved green spaces. The six-lane freeway will bisect the 750-acre Herman Brown Park in the process.

It is interesting to note how careless environmentalists seem to be when it comes to preserving green space in areas populated by poor suburbanites. If it had been an urban park or one that was frequented by wealthier folks, I'd bet money that somebody would've raised all hell in an attempt to either reroute the freeway or kill it altogether.

So...this begs the question. Do environmentalists really give a damn about migratory birds for altruistic purposes? Or are they just a bunch of vocal (i.e. wealthy) NIMBYists that care about something only when it affects them?

[gnu]

TXDoT seems to have won the battle of Herman Brown Park without firing a shot. With the contracts to extend the Crosby freeway from Uvalde/BW8 to the 610 loop having already been granted, environmentalists completely missed an opportunity to preserve one of their supposedly-beloved green spaces. The six-lane freeway will bisect the 750-acre Herman Brown Park in the process.

It is interesting to note how careless environmentalists seem to be when it comes to preserving green space in areas populated by poor suburbanites. If it had been an urban park or one that was frequented by wealthier folks, I'd bet money that somebody would've raised all hell in an attempt to either reroute the freeway or kill it altogether.

So...this begs the question. Do environmentalists really give a damn about migratory birds for altruistic purposes? Or are they just a bunch of vocal (i.e. wealthy) NIMBYists that care about something only when it affects them?

i disagree with your generalizing statement about environmentalists.

as an example, i don't think the katy prairie is populated by wealthy folks and yet "careless" environmentals tried to protect it.

it is fair to note that in this instance the freeway was planned long before the land was a park. Not that it doesn't deserve to be protected, nonetheless.

Txdot should do all they can to minimize the impact on the park. Maybe they should do a parkway and also delete any feeder roads.

Edited August 17, 2006 by gnu

[TheNiche]

i disagree with your generalizing statement about environmentalists.

as an example, i don't think the katy prairie is populated by wealthy folks and yet "careless" environmentals tried to protect it.

it is fair to note that in this instance the freeway was planned long before the land was a park. Not that it doesn't deserve to be protected, nonetheless.

Txdot should do all they can to minimize the impact on the park. Maybe they should do a parkway and also delete any feeder roads.

Actually, the Katy Prairie is a good example of the kind of behavior that I'm referencing. Do you think that the level of interest would be anywhere near what it is if the demographics were more similar to the greater Northshore area?

But you are correct that my statements were not sufficiently clear. Not all environmentalists are like this. Some really and truely are hardcore bird-lovers and such. But the ones that seem to generate political pressures often seem to have ulterior motives...and it is interesting that issues like the one I mentioned here get zero attention.

[CE_ugh]

Actually, the Katy Prairie is a good example of the kind of behavior that I'm referencing. Do you think that the level of interest would be anywhere near what it is if the demographics were more similar to the greater Northshore area?

But you are correct that my statements were not sufficiently clear. Not all environmentalists are like this. Some really and truely are hardcore bird-lovers and such. But the ones that seem to generate political pressures often seem to have ulterior motives...and it is interesting that issues like the one I mentioned here get zero attention.

I dont think many yet know about the Crosby Freeway. Once more people take notice of the area, enviromentalists will start denouncing urban sprawl out U.S 90.

Also they've been trying to halt sections B and C of the Grand Parkway for years and those arent the most affulent areas.

[TheNiche]

I dont think many yet know about the Crosby Freeway. Once more people take notice of the area, enviromentalists will start denouncing urban sprawl out U.S 90.

Also they've been trying to halt sections B and C of the Grand Parkway for years and those arent the most affulent areas.

The folks against B and C aren't nearly as loud as the folks that are against the segments from Katy to Spring. I get a sense that the true environmentalists started up the B and C debate and that they get backing by default from the folks who are against specific segments but that are using the environmentalist rationale and trying to be consistent in order to avoid being perceived as blatantly self-serving.

[enviromain]

It is interesting to note how careless environmentalists seem to be when it comes to preserving green space in areas populated by poor suburbanites.

Do environmentalists really give a damn about migratory birds for altruistic purposes? Or are they just a bunch of vocal (i.e. wealthy) NIMBYists that care about something only when it affects them?

Sounds to me that you kicked yourself on those statements! If you are so concerned about our environment, then why aren't you doing things to resolve your and our problems. Why would you want to gripe at the people that are on your on your side??

I make a small living trying to "save this planet" and I love my job and the hard work I put into it so I can makes things happen. I'm not a tree hugger (yet) but a scientist I am.

Peace and Reality!

[TheNiche]

If you are so concerned about our environment, then why aren't you doing things to resolve your and our problems.

Because I'm not generally concerned about our environment. In fact, I thought that I was gloating.

[enviromain]

Because I'm not generally concerned about our environment.

Obviously. I wouldn't let too many people know that if I were you.

[TheNiche]

Obviously. I wouldn't let too many people know that if I were you.

The key word in this statement is "generally". I have specific instances in which I care about the environment...such as when change would realistically be expected to cause a problem for humans within a reasonably short span of time. CFCs and the hole in the ozone layer is a good example of such an instance. Global warming is not.

So what I'm really trying to get at is that I don't give a damn about the environment for the environment's sake. I only give a damn about the environment for humanity's sake. Fair enough?

[enviromain]

So what I'm really trying to get at is that I don't give a damn about the environment for the environment's sake. I only give a damn about the environment for humanity's sake. Fair enough?

I appreciate your concern with humanity, but your not seeing the big picture. If we do not take care of the only planet we have then humanity is destined to suffer because of it. Everything that harm's our environment "for the environment's sake", effects human health eventually.

I could go on and on about primary, secondary, and tertiary pollution and the outcomes, but it's a big, big picture with us humans in it and there is definitely not enough space to discuss this in a blog. It took me 7 years of college education for me to absorb the information I know, including our government's disconcern such as yours.

Take care.

[TheNiche]

I appreciate your concern with humanity, but your not seeing the big picture. If we do not take care of the only planet we have then humanity is destined to suffer because of it. Everything that harm's our environment "for the environment's sake", effects human health eventually.

I could go on and on about primary, secondary, and tertiary pollution and the outcomes, but it's a big, big picture with us humans in it and there is definitely not enough space to discuss this in a blog. It took me 7 years of college education for me to absorb the information I know, including our government's disconcern such as yours.

Take care.

One of the key elements to my point is that the time horizon for most meaningful changes is extremely long. Global warming always makes for an excellent example, because the most disasterous effects (treeline drop) wouldn't be really limiting for thousands of years...and the heat itself may actually be beneficial when you net out all the impacts. And the changes would take place at such a slow rate that population adjusts accordingly without large-scale famine or other disaster. And even then, a lot of environmentalists seem to be very reliant upon the use of linear trends, when in fact, trends change. As nations develop economically, population growth slows or even turns negative at a certain point, thus slowing the rate of environmental damage. Also as nations develop, they can afford to implement environmental policies without greatly hurting their citizens' well-being. For that matter, humans have this remarkable tendency to adapt to their environment, but also to adapt their environment to their own needs...and as time passes, our ability to do so increases at a geometric rate.

My biggest beef with environmentalists is with the ones who claim a coming apocalypse. Or those that mislead people into believing that we face a lot of really disasterous short-term ramifications in order to bring about more immediate politically-induced policy change. And then there are those that advocate a policy that amounts to the eradication of some significant fraction of humanity...

[robinctc]

TXDoT seems to have won the battle of Herman Brown Park without firing a shot. With the contracts to extend the Crosby freeway from Uvalde/BW8 to the 610 loop having already been granted, environmentalists completely missed an opportunity to preserve one of their supposedly-beloved green spaces. The six-lane freeway will bisect the 750-acre Herman Brown Park in the process.

It is interesting to note how careless environmentalists seem to be when it comes to preserving green space in areas populated by poor suburbanites.

It strikes me as callow to conclude that because TxDOT is now advancing their original alignment, that "the environmentalists" were not ineffective but actively careless. Your lack of awareness of their efforts, and their failure to change the outcome, do not mean there were no efforts.

I know that members of the Houston Regional Group of the Sierra Club (HSC) opposed TxDOT's proposed extension of US-90 through Herman Brown Park. The Sierra Club participated in the federally-required scoping and alternatives analysis processes, and their position against this project is clear. Here's an excerpt from their 29-page analysis and position paper:

The [Houston Sierra Club] is very concerned that TxDOT is not considering any re-alignment of the U.S. Highway 90 Project. A re-alignment may be necessary to reduce the environmental impacts of the U.S. Highway 90 Project on Furr High School, a Houston Community College campus, Herman Brown Park, and the Holiday Forest, Wood Bayou, Songwood Wood Shadow, Shady Brook, Greens Bayou Estates, Wallisville Gardens, and Pine Trails Neighborhoods.

There were two reasonable alternatives that the HSC provided to FHWA/TxDOT in its October 19, 2005 scoping letter.

From the October 19, 2005, HSC letter,

[TheNiche]

It strikes me as callow to conclude that because TxDOT is now advancing their original alignment, that "the environmentalists" were not ineffective but actively careless. Your lack of awareness of their efforts, and their failure to change the outcome, do not mean there were no efforts.

I know that members of the Houston Regional Group of the Sierra Club (HSC) opposed TxDOT's proposed extension of US-90 through Herman Brown Park. The Sierra Club participated in the federally-required scoping and alternatives analysis processes, and their position against this project is clear. Here's an excerpt from their 29-page analysis and position paper:

Given the parkland protections outlined in the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), one might expect TxDOT to be able to figure out all by themselves that they should try to go around Herman Brown Park rather than through it. But Sierra Club didn't assume that -- they explicitly reminded TxDOT of the impacts involved and urged them to evaluate other alignments. And yet, that was not sufficient to change the outcome.

What's flawed is the project planning process. No racist or classist arguments necessary.

Wow. They can write up a 29-page paper on the subject, but they forget to call the Chronicle and every TV station in town. Don't they know that all it'd take is a handful of alternately weepy and angry protesters to make it look like an issue about which somebody might give a damn?

Poor mobilization. Careless...although I could actually care less. See post #5. I'm actually gloating about this.

Edited October 31, 2006 by TheNiche