Champion Forest/Memorial Northwest

[Import]

Hi, we are thinking of possibly buying in one of these subdivisions. We are not from the area and don't know too much about them apart from having driven around them, generally positive comments on HAIF and the fact that we can buy a slightly older 3000 sf+ house there for under our budget of 250K. We have also heard positive things about the Klein school district and the introduction of the IB (although our kids are still preschoolers so don't know how relevant that will be to us).

I would appreciate any information about the area. Is it on an upward trend or a downward trend. Have there recently been any developments we should be aware of that could affect house prices in the future? What kind of a neighborhoods are these for young families? Is there generally a lot of traffic/train/plane noise we might not have noticed when driving around?

Obviously our budget is one reason for being interested in these subdivisions, however it does worry me a little that the type of houses we have been looking at on HAR seem to be lowering prices right now. A reflection of the current soft housing market, or is there something else going on there?

Thanks for any advice!

[rps324]

Memorial Northwest has always been a bit of a bargain. It is sandwiched between two of the more expensive neighborhoods, Gleanloch Farms and Champion Forest. The new, small gated enclaves off Louetta are all very expensive, and add to the growth of the area and now the new Vintage development has come in.

Theiss elementary has always been a good school in there. The civic club is strong as well in MNW. Champion Forest has always been a flashier place, and has the country club, but at one time it was zoned to Klein Forest, and from what you can read elsewhere on this board, that doesn't seem to be a popular choice with the locals out there. I don't know if Champion Forest has since been rezoned to any of the other schools. There is one small portion of Champion Forest, south of the creek, that may be in Cy-Fair.

It is insane the amount of house you can get in MNW, but the larger ones built later lack any architecture at all. There is block after block of big brick blobs over off of Naremore Blvd, 5000 - 7000 sq ft on 3 foot lot lines. While they may have a lot of space and trim work inside, they can be positively frightening on the outside to me. The older sections look nicer IMO.

That area is fine if you are looking for the good public schools, big house at a good price, and don't mind a long commute. With those characteristics it has always been popular with young families, although Champion Forest's oldest homes are now 30 years old, and Memorial NW was started over 35 years ago, so there are a lot of older people in there too.

As for price reductions, I think that is more of a seasonal thing. Houses that don't move in time to get the kids enrolled in school tend to get stuck with Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and the general slow time of January & February, especially in an area where many people organize their moves around their children's school, and wait to do it in the summer. I am sure it is pretty seasonally stagnant right now so you might want to take advantage of it while you can.

[VicMan]

http://www.heritagetexas.com/neighborhoods...mpionForest.htm

This suggests that Champion Forest is now zoned to Klein High School.

I talked with a girl who attended Klein Intermediate (which feeds into Klein Forest). She describes Klein Intermediate as "ghetto".

Edit: "Brill ES, Kleb IS, Klein HS" are the schools that Champion Forest is zoned to. See Klein ISD's website

[mrfootball]

All of those neighborhoods are known as solid areas.

I grew up in the area and lived in Champion Forest (which has ALWAYS been zoned to Klein HS...except the newest section that is zoned to Cy-Creek).

Klein is as good as they come as far as Texas public Highschools. K-12 is excellent.

Lot's of trees. Lot's of golf courses. Big homes. Friendly people. Good schools. Low Crime. Nice place to live and raise families.

The area is Middle to predominately Upper Middle Class (Upper Middle for the neighborhoods listed), with dozens of Million dollar homes and exclusive neighborhoods.

The commute to Downtown isn't easy...45 minutes to an hour usually...30 minutes at best (of the neighborhoods listed, Champions Forest has quicker access to 249).

The only areas in what is commonly known as 'The Great Northwest' (area bordered by I-45 to 290 - FM1960 to FM2920) that are considered 'risky' are in the Klein Forest, Westfield and possibly Spring HS zones where there are a number of very nice neighborhoods, but the quality of the schools have been compromised mainly due to the huge number of apartments and low-income housing that cropped up on the southside of FM 1960 and I-45.

The 'bulletproof' areas in the 'Great Northwest' will be the neighborhoods in the new Cypress Woods High School followed by Klein, Cypress Creek, Klein Oak, Cy-Fair, Klein Collins and Tomball which has had tremendous growth in and around Spring-Cypress.

There's a new luxury shopping destination center being developed by Interfin at Vintage Park that is rumored to include a Central Market. There are a number of good new restaurants that have opened up recently such as Lupe Tortilla's, Barton Springs Grille, Perry's Steakhouse, and PF Chang's.

Also, the Cypress Creek Greenway Project, a movement to create a 37-mile long greenbelt with anchor parks, hike & bike, horseback riding, canoe/kayak along the banks of Cypress Creek and Spring Creek will run right through Champions Forest.

There are a ton of great neighborhoods in the Great Northwest to choose from, the area dwarfs The Woodlands and really ought to have its own section on this forum.

[ENGcons]

All those neighborhoods are solid. I currently live in the area, Gleannloch Farms to be exact, and grew up in this area too. I personally would never buy a house in Mem NW just because of all the stop signs they have on Champions Forest Dr.

Klein is eventually going to build a new High School off Spring Cypress so there is a chance Mem NW could be re-zoned to attend that school instead of Klein in the future.

[H-Town Man]

The neighborhoods are great, the area is great, but Louetta is in decline. Just five years ago this was still an attractive road. Not anymore. Every last stand of trees has been cut down and replaced by dry cleaners, car washes, etc. Traffic has also gotten pretty bad. It's starting to look like Veterans Memorial or North Shepherd. I guess the one bright spot is, it can't get much worse. But it's still too bad to lose this once-nice road.

[mrfootball]

Not sure if Louetta is "in decline", as all of the new development would suggest otherwise.

The other half of Louetta (from Champion Forest to Longwood) is a fairly nice tree lined boulevard and won't ever become the 1960-like fustercluck due to the way its developed with Vintage Park, Hewlett-Packard, Lakewood and Longwood.

Still, I hate to see the trees go down. I preferred the wooded Louetta.

I wish developers would have more sense. I wish Harris County had more stringent standards. I recently saw the new regulations for Landscaping instituted by the County. While it certainly is a step in the right direction. It certainly hasn't deterred any developers from continuing their brainless clearcutting.

The new LA Fitness by Klein High is a perfect example. People ought to contact the developer and voice their displeasure.

[Import]

Thanks all for the input. I am happy to hear positive comments as I do like the look and feel of the neighborhood.

Interesting comments on Louetta - in fact this was something else making me hesitate. I didn't know it when it had trees and as a newcomer driving along there it is so featureless and dull it makes you suspect that behind it might be ghetto...

Glad to hear it isn't!

[H-Town Man]

Not sure if Louetta is "in decline", as all of the new development would suggest otherwise.

The other half of Louetta (from Champion Forest to Longwood) is a fairly nice tree lined boulevard and won't ever become the 1960-like fustercluck due to the way its developed with Vintage Park, Hewlett-Packard, Lakewood and Longwood.

Still, I hate to see the trees go down. I preferred the wooded Louetta.

I wish developers would have more sense. I wish Harris County had more stringent standards. I recently saw the new regulations for Landscaping instituted by the County. While it certainly is a step in the right direction. It certainly hasn't deterred any developers from continuing their brainless clearcutting.

The new LA Fitness by Klein High is a perfect example. People ought to contact the developer and voice their displeasure.

For my taste, just because developers are pouring money into it doesn't mean it is not in decline. If you look at how it was 15 years ago, with stands of trees all along and tolerable traffic, and look at it now, that is what I call a decline. Besides, how will all these new buildings look once the newness wears off?

Remember, North Shepherd was once a nice street.

[mrfootball]

Again...half of Louetta is a nice tree-lined boulevard like Cypresswood and Champion Forest Drive.

The other half is going the way of 1960 -- minus the apartments.

Spring-Cypress is next (unless people start putting pressure on Harris County Developers).

Back to the neighborhoods though...the neighborhoods all along Louetta are pretty solid. No worries....especially for Champion Forest and Memorial Northwest. I do agree with H-town and share in his sadness of seeing Louetta turn into a line of strip centers when it used to be heavily wooded on either side, with few stoplights. Strack Farms used to be an actual farm...and it was the best 'cue' around. That was then...

[H-Town Man]

Again...half of Louetta is a nice tree-lined boulevard like Cypresswood and Champion Forest Drive.

The other half is going the way of 1960 -- minus the apartments.

Spring-Cypress is next (unless people start putting pressure on Harris County Developers).

Back to the neighborhoods though...the neighborhoods all along Louetta are pretty solid. No worries....especially for Champion Forest and Memorial Northwest. I do agree with H-town and share in his sadness of seeing Louetta turn into a line of strip centers when it used to be heavily wooded on either side, with few stoplights. Strack Farms used to be an actual farm...and it was the best 'cue' around. That was then...

I had assumed we were talking about the portion of Louetta near Champions Forest and Memorial Northwest.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I live in Champions Forest, gated community on Champions DR. the place will be up for sale soon, the commute into city center is a bit stale Im now looking for a townhouse in Memorial Park/Camp Logan area. Seems to be pretty nice area. Anyone know anything about it?

I live in Champions Forest, gated community on Champions DR. the place will be up for sale soon, the commute into city center is a bit stale Im now looking for a townhouse in Memorial Park/Camp Logan area. Seems to be pretty nice area. Anyone know anything about it?

And forgot to add, the traffic on FM 1960 is gotten BEYOND insane. Only saving grace so far is the closeness to 249, as a means of getting to downtown, but that too is getting insane :(:(:(

[bachanon]

why even consider champions/champions forest? the commute is longer than living in grogan's mill in the woodlands and taking the hardy toll road. the only amenity i can see for living in the middle of the dreadful 1960 area is the klein school district (and not every school for that matter). buy a fixer upper in grogan's mill that is over 3000 square feet, spend less money per square foot and benefit from the "town center effect". my home has increased in value over the last three years by almost 30%. of course, i'm walking distance from the woodlands waterway, but there are at least 100 homes for sale in the same area.

i have friends who bought a new home off of 2920 and kuykendahl five or six years ago and the property values in their neighborhood have plummeted nearly 6% annually because of all the new construction nearby, and not to mention the fact that the dreaded grand parkway may cut through or near their neighborhood.

buy in the woodlands near town center or something closer to houston proper, like sugarland.

[pineda]

i have friends who bought a new home off of 2920 and kuykendahl five or six years ago and the property values in their neighborhood have plummeted nearly 6% annually because of all the new construction nearby, and not to mention the fact that the dreaded grand parkway may cut through or near their neighborhood.

I live near 2920 & Kuykendahl. What neighborhood are you talking about?

[bachanon]

windrose. there will be new figures out (if not already) for neighborhood values in 2005. people buying new homes in areas with massive growth should not expect their new home values to rise quickly. the couple i'm speaking of and one other couple who purchased near mason and the westpark tollway have both had their home values stagnant for the last several years. they purchased typical cookie cutter new homes by builders like emerald or d. r. horton. couple no. 1 put 30k in upgrades to their 130k home (bad idea). thousands of similar homes are within two miles of their house. a newcomer to this area can buy a new home for the same price or less than couple no. 1 paid over five years ago, not including the upgrades.

if they had bought a 150k house in grogan's mill in a neighborhood near north millbend, across woodlands parkway near the woodlands waterway and town center, they would have seen significant movement in their home value (with the exception of the "glen mill" neighborhood). the same goes for other areas of the city i'm sure.

word to the wise, buy in grogan's mill. 35 minutes to downtown (not in rush hour of course).

oh, back to the champions theme. if it hasn't begun already, wait until the kuykendahl/1960 intersection construction begins. they are running 1960 under kuykendahl or vice versa, similar to the intersection at i-45 and 1960.

[pineda]

re; Windrose

What's happening in that neighborhood is typical of any new area experiencing rapid growth. I'm sure the same thing happened in Grogan's Mill when it was new. Now Grogan's Mill is going through another phase of its' life cycle. The neighborhood shopping center there is losing tenants and worries about further future growth, while Windrose is booming and worries how to manage its' burgeoning growth. It really doesn't matter how many great homes there are out there in established neighborhoods. Some people just like the smell of "new" and they are lured in by the low interest rates and the promise of "everything's included". The new homes already have so many upgrades, sometimes a lot more than the older homes. It would be hard to pass on that feature alone. Plus when it's new, you pick out all your own color choices, which is important for some young starter families, who want a nice home but can't afford to update an older one. The only real important rule-of-thumb is that I would advise anyone looking to buy a new home in a new area experiencing rapid growth; plan to stay at least five years or you will lose your butt when it comes time to sell. Remember all the folks who liked the smell of "new", yours won't have that smell anymore...

[bachanon]

what you say is true, pineda. my concern is that these neighborhoods away from an urban center, after the housing boom is over, will suffer the most depreciation. these areas with development after development of 150k and under homes will become slums, just as the homes under 60k became during the 80s. it comes back to the simple idea that location is the primary rule.

[mrfootball]

The HP Campus area and new Vintage Park developments are set to become the "town center" for the Champions/Klein/Spring/Cypress areas. The HP Campus is already being sub-let to companies like Exxon a trend, I believe will continue until you see half of that wooded campus leased out to companies other than HP.

Don't fall prey to Bachanon's Woodland's propaganda. I found the homes in the Woodlands to be rather cheaply constructed (in the $150-$300K price range), and the neighborhoods significantly more "cookie cutter" than the Champions area which is full of custom homes and high-end neighborhoods. The problem with the Woodlands (other than the lack of variety) is that it is highly segmented and reaches almost all the way back towards Tomball and Magnolia...if you live in the back...the commutes a delicate flower. Add to that, the older homes in the front (ie. Grogan's Mill) aren't that great. With that said, I really liked the new Landsdowne section...

You will really like the Champions area, it's a great place to live, solid real estate values, great schools and doesn't suffer as much from the 'Twilight Zone' effect that my Woodlands friends talk about.

If you're looking for another solid, bullet-proof area:

You may also try the Cypress area (area between 249 and 290). Which has beautiful beautiful wooded neighborhoods like Cole's Crossing, Longwood, Lakewood Oaks Estates, Northlake Forest, Rock Creek, etc The schools in this zone are some of the best in Cy-Fair ISD with the new HS (Cypress Woods) opening up in Fall 2006 it encompasses some of the best demographics in the Houston area.

[bachanon]

alright mrfootball, how about enthusiam rather than propaganda? he is right when he says that the development near the intersection of 1960 and 249 are a focal point for the surrounding areas. if development in the area progresses with a centrally focused "town center", i can see how that will benefit neighborhoods within a few miles.

the main reason i do not prefer the champions area (regardless of the great demographics) is the sluggish traffic in the area.

one more item...........yes, living in the woodlands past panther creek, grogan's mill, indian springs and cochran's crossing requires the same patience, and sometime more so, than living in champions.

i can't imagine living in sterling ridge or alden bridge unless i worked in the area.

i do believe that homes in close proximity to the woodlands' town center and i-45 are seeing increased property values better than those in neighborhoods near champions.

please forgive my "one note" trumpet blowing. i REALLY wanted to live in the woodlands and i love it more now that i'm here than before. that being said.........follow your bliss!

[mrfootball]

I think The Woodlands is a great place to live (and work if you're lucky), as is Klein and Cypress.

I don't think any of these areas, and this is true for most suburbs, are going to become places where you'll make a ton of money on the resale market. With that said, by nature of the school zones they're zoned to and the developments within (ie. nice, safe, family-oriented neighborhoods with very few apartments and little to no low-income housing), they will continue to be solid investments with steady gains...which is about the most you can ask of the far-flung burbs...

The places where you stand to make big $ off your resale (if you're a current owner) are the solid close-in suburbs like the Memorial area (West Memorial) as well as the close-in up-and-coming older neighborhoods like Timbergrove, Garden Oaks, etc.

However, with Houston's skyrocketing crime rates, the lure of Inner Loop living has become somewhat tarnished which reminds us all why we chose to live in the burbs in the first place.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

However, with Houston's skyrocketing crime rates, the lure of Inner Loop living has become somewhat tarnished which reminds us all why we chose to live in the burbs in the first place.

Gentrification is repairing that problem.......

[bachanon]

I don't think any of these areas, and this is true for most suburbs, are going to become places where you'll make a ton of money on the resale market.

i disagree. town center in the woodlands, for instance, is required to produce annual studies of how the TCID is affecting surrounding areas. they are required to analyze crime, property values, traffic congestion, etc. homes within one mile of TCID are being sold for 17 to 20% higher than similar homes 10 miles away. they are calling it the "town center" effect.

i purchased my home for 112K (1982 square feet) in 2002 near the intersection of grogan's mill and woodlands parkway, basically across the street from town center. i paid about 6k over market value. there were no other homes in the area for sale in my price range when i needed to purchase. other homes in my neighborhood with the same or similar floor plans and no upgrades (1970's era kitchens, original ac units, etc.) are now on the market for 132K. deed restrictions will require that no tear downs occur that do not keep the original "feel" of the 70's contemporary style and colors. buying in the area i live is a definite win for anyone willing to hold on to property. my realtor purchased a home across grogan's mill from me within three months of my purchase. houses going on the market in this same area are selling within weeks rather than months. one home down the street from me that was on the market for 139K in 2003 has recently been on the market for 160K.

there are pockets of real estate throughout houston that achieve larger increases in value than your average home. locating these areas is the key. i do not believe that used homes in champions are near this level of value increase.

[RedScare]

However, with Houston's skyrocketing crime rates, the lure of Inner Loop living has become somewhat tarnished which reminds us all why we chose to live in the burbs in the first place.

Quite the master of hyperbole, aren't you?

The only real increase in crime in Houston is in the Southwest, an area that is, coincidentally, OUTSIDE the Loop. I actually had more incidences of crime while living in "The Great Northwest" (2) than I've had inside the Loop (0).

But, hey, whatever makes you happy.

[mrfootball]

The only real increase in crime in Houston is in the Southwest,

Um, okay.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.c...more-crime.html

[RedScare]

"To tell the story of how the massive influx of evacuees has affected crime in Houston, we decided to visit the Fondren neighborhood in the southwest part of the city, because this is where many evacuees wound up settling.

The mainly working-class neighborhood, which consists mostly of low-rise apartment complexes, was plagued by crime long before Katrina evacuees arrived. But officers who work this beat say they've seen a significant spike in emergency calls since they got here. One officer told me, "Oh, we're a lot busier."

Is this what you were referring to, or the comments from people in Pearland? If you're going to smack me down, at least find a quote that disagrees with me...even if you have to find them on Anderson Cooper's blog.

[mrfootball]

Nobody's arguing about how bad the Southwest side has become...I think you're fooling yourself if you don't realize the crime rate is soaring elsewhere in the city.

[rps324]

Nobody's arguing about how bad the Southwest side has become...I think you're fooling yourself if you don't realize the crime rate is soaring elsewhere in the city.

Like F.M. 1960?

[pineda]

Back to the original question:

Champion Forest vs. Memorial Northwest

I have friends in both and in Champions Park.

Champions Park is an adorable little subdivision with well-built custom homes that has lots of activities for families and a local pool and swim team. Having said that, it's been going downhill in past years, cars being ripped out in driveways, a lot of local vandalism. The folks living there attribute it to three things: a little too close to Cutten and F.M. 1960, a 24-hour Wal-Mart and lots of nearby apartment buildings. So, those may be local issues that affect a home's resale value. If I had to pick, I'd pick Memorial Northwest over Champion Forest, you just seem to get a lot more home for the money. Huge lots, huge houses. Not always in the best shape, but still a lot of custom work in this area. I like the area closest to Klein and Kleb, just to the north of Louetta, and bounded by Stuebner Airline. There are some great deals to be had there. Plus, you will be very close to two excellent schools. I've heard that there is a new very expensive subdivision going in near Klein High, and that will further help home values. If you're looking for just a good-looking all-around neighborhood that might be a little pricey, do check out Champion Forest. I love this subdivision and think the potential is only going to increase as the area gets steadily more built out from the Compaq area. It's quiet, beautiful homes, good schools and close enough, but not too close to Willowbrook Mall area.

[mrfootball]

I've heard that there is a new very expensive subdivision going in near Klein High, and that will further help home values.

That would probably be The Falls at Champion Forest which is very close to KHS, or The Vintage which is about a mile down Louetta towards the HP/Compaq Campus. Both zoned to Klein HS, each features custom homes from the $500's to $2 Million.

Champions Park is another great subdivision, as are its extensions, Champions Park North, and the Estates at Champions Park.

I also like the original Champions, if you want a fixer upper on a big wooded lot next to one of the top Golf Courses in the country (Champions GC)

Champion Forest...Memorial NW...you can't really go wrong. We lived in Champion Forest for 10 years, it's a great neighborhood, which has for a long time been recognized as one of the best in the area.

[SpringTX]

Sorry to jump in this thread a month late. I hope you're still around, Import, and haven't bought yet. Both those areas are definitely in DECLINE looking at a long-term picture (decades). Five years ago, all the Klein high schools were rated "Exemplary". Now they're all rated "Academically Acceptable". The percentage of economically disadvantaged is steadily creeping up. The ghetto is getting closer. Bachanon said it right; in real estate it's about location, location, location. Those may be nice neighborhoods now, and they may maintain some value for a while...but not forever. A decade or two ago, the neighborhoods zoned to Klein Forest thought they were "untouchable" or "too big too fail". Now look where they are. The real property values have fallen dramatically. In fact, all the real property values in those subdivisions zoned to Klein High School have been flat for years. Look at the neighborhood price trends on HAR. Compare them to exact the same houses in The Woodlands and you'll see they're a lot cheaper. Looking at the future, those neighborhoods and everything else around them are going to continue to head downward slowly and steadily. It's happened to everything else from Willowbrook to Humble. As someone else said, there is no zoning. They can put low-income apartment complexes anywhere they want. If you buy into that neighborhood, you could very well find yourself "upside down" on your mortgage, stuck in schools that turning ghetto, and desperately looking for a realtor. I know because it happened to me and I thank God I was able to escape and I'll never make that mistake again. The golden rule of real estate I've learned is "never buy in an area you don't know very well". You have "sucker" written all over your forehead, just as I did. There are people that want out desperately, and when they see you coming they'll say anything to unload their junk on you.