Got a #$#%^ Ticket

[20thStDad]

I got a damn ticket driving on I-10, the cop said he "paced" me going 70 (didn't get me with radar), and also said I was following too close. His words were "within 1 car length" which is such absolute horse s&^t. Anyway, I was going 65 and not 70, and there's no way I was that close to any car at that speed. On the ticket he wrote 70 in a 60, and in box #9 wrote in "follow too close" - I assume what he wrote in is also an official violation, so I have questions on my options.

1. Go to court. Is this pointless? Basically there is no proof on either side, I'm going to go and say I was going 65 and no way following that close, and if he shows up he'll say otherwise. I want to do this just out of principle.

2. Deferred disposition option. It doesn't fully explain, but to me this sounds like you pay a fine and if you don't get in trouble for a certain amount of time, nothing goes on your record. But there is confusing with the speeding part and the write-in "follow too close" part because it's pay-by-offense. It's all done by mail so I have to have it figured out before I send it and it's just not clear. I think it would be $207 ("for each non-accident speeding case within 15 miles of the speed limit") plus $202("for each non-accident traffic case").

I can't take a driver safety course because I did that a few months back for something I actually did wrong.

It'd be nice to pay and be done with it but since there are 2 infractions that's 400 freaking BS bucks. If I stand any chance of getting the following too close one thrown out it's worth it to show up in court, no?

It's crap like this that kills my faith in law enforcement. Good job, you wasted my time and money and your time, and for what? I was driving perfectly safely and at a reasonable pace, and in fact was getting passed by other people. Now I'm pissed off and more likely to take it out on other people and actually drive aggressively (which I wasn't), so it's a net loss for the COH.

[Jeebus]

Just curious, what were you driving, and what color was it?

Does it say anywhere on the ticket how he obtained your speed?

[EMME]

I got a damn ticket driving on I-10, the cop said he "paced" me going 70 (didn't get me with radar), and also said I was following too close. His words were "within 1 car length" which is such absolute horse s&^t. Anyway, I was going 65 and not 70, and there's no way I was that close to any car at that speed. On the ticket he wrote 70 in a 60, and in box #9 wrote in "follow too close" - I assume what he wrote in is also an official violation, so I have questions on my options.

1. Go to court. Is this pointless? Basically there is no proof on either side, I'm going to go and say I was going 65 and no way following that close, and if he shows up he'll say otherwise. I want to do this just out of principle.

2. Deferred disposition option. It doesn't fully explain, but to me this sounds like you pay a fine and if you don't get in trouble for a certain amount of time, nothing goes on your record. But there is confusing with the speeding part and the write-in "follow too close" part because it's pay-by-offense. It's all done by mail so I have to have it figured out before I send it and it's just not clear. I think it would be $207 ("for each non-accident speeding case within 15 miles of the speed limit") plus $202("for each non-accident traffic case").

I can't take a driver safety course because I did that a few months back for something I actually did wrong.

It'd be nice to pay and be done with it but since there are 2 infractions that's 400 freaking BS bucks. If I stand any chance of getting the following too close one thrown out it's worth it to show up in court, no?

It's crap like this that kills my faith in law enforcement. Good job, you wasted my time and money and your time, and for what? I was driving perfectly safely and at a reasonable pace, and in fact was getting passed by other people. Now I'm pissed off and more likely to take it out on other people and actually drive aggressively (which I wasn't), so it's a net loss for the COH.

Get a speeding ticket lawyer. They will go to court for you and get you deferred ajudication. It's worth the cost. Actually, I think the fee may even be less than the ticket itself, but I don't recall. I had a boss that never paid a ticket, always got deferred ajudication.

[Fringe]

Get a speeding ticket lawyer. They will go to court for you and get you deferred ajudication. It's worth the cost. Actually, I think the fee may even be less than the ticket itself, but I don't recall. I had a boss that never paid a ticket, always got deferred ajudication.

+I agree. It's all a racket. It's lawyers vs lawyers and the lawywers always win. By yourself your screwed.

[20thStDad]

Just curious, what were you driving, and what color was it?

Does it say anywhere on the ticket how he obtained your speed?

Black Altima.

Ticket doesn't say, but he said he "paced" me. He was in the HOV lane "observing me for a while". I should charge him with stalking, he admitted it!

Get a speeding ticket lawyer. They will go to court for you and get you deferred ajudication. It's worth the cost. Actually, I think the fee may even be less than the ticket itself, but I don't recall. I had a boss that never paid a ticket, always got deferred ajudication.

So you're saying getting a lawyer for this is $200 or less? If so then yeah it makes sense, but I've never heard of a lawyer being that cheap.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

To answer your question first...call traffic attorney David Sprecher 713-639-2600.

Now, a question for you...was this an Officer Garcia by any chance?

I got the same two tickets last year, plus an illegal lane change, in a single incident. When I met the attorney in court, I was told that HPD has "ordered" their traffic cops to issue more than one citation for everyone. Don't know if it's true...here's my story:

I got ticketed for speeding (70 in a 60)...by a cop who was at least 10 cars behind me. Not 10 car lengths, but 10 cars between us (plus the distance between the cars). He had to be at least 200-400 feet back. I was fully aware of the cop and had the car on cruise at 65...so I knew he was wrong about the speed.

I got ticketed for following less than one car length...the only place I did that was when traffic was stopped where I entered the freeway. I don't follow less than one car length. And I was curious how the cop judged my distance from at least 200 feet directly behind me (same lane).

I got ticketed for illegal lane change for not signaling...Absolutely impossible. I am obsessive about signaling, it's an automatic response. I use my turn signal to pull into my driveway at home, and I use my turn signal to pull into my parking spot at work. It's just subconscious.

Anyways...I hired Sprecher (can't remember the price; approx. $200-$300 total, but much less than the tickets) and to make a long story short, I had all 3 charges dismissed. Took all day in court, but it was worthwhile.

Me and another guy were the last two cases left in the court, both with the same cop, both the exact same charges. After talking to each other, our stories matched, almost to a tee...just going opposite directions on the same freeway. Turns out the cop admitted to Sprecher that he hadn't clocked either of us, just "estimated" the speed from a distance. If he admitted to lying about that, how can you trust him on the other charges?!?

Anyways...I don't understand the how or why, but everyone with an attorney got off...worst case seemed to be deferred adjudication. Sprecher doesn't like to settle for that, but others seemed willing to accept it. He wouldn't accept deferred adjudication for me, and kept fighting all day until the charges were dropped. It's a big scam, if you ask me, but it works. I hate that the end result appeared to have no relevance to my actual guilt or innocence.

[20thStDad]

To answer your question first...call traffic attorney David Sprecher 713-639-2600.

Now, a question for you...was this an Officer Garcia by any chance?

Will do, thanks for the contact info.

I don't see his name on the ticket and didn't bother to look. Could have been Garcia. I'm definitely going to challenge this, it is BS.

[cottonmather0]

Two responses:

First, I would second David Sprecher, too. I'm not sure how it works, but for garden variety speeding tickets he makes them go away for a fee that is equal to the fine. You just sit and sit in court and then when they call your name you go up and meet him for the first time and he tells you that you're now free to go home. Seriously.

Second, that said, if you have a LOT of time in your schedule, it's very easy to go to Muni Court and just do it yourself and get out of these things - I've done it twice - but you have to be willing to go down there and spend 4-5 whole DAYS over 3-5 MONTHS just sitting in court and, again, waiting for it all to play out. Basically you request a jury trial and then keep demanding to the judge and the prosecutor (who is usually a law school flunky and probably still a worse lawyer than you) all kinds of discovery (radar gun maintenance, cop's training on radar guns, cop's training on pacing, road safety studies, speed limit maps, location of speed signs, cops drug records, cop car maintenance records, speedometer tests on the cop car, etc etc) and procedure and basically make a pain of yourself.

At first they will throw you a few easy pieces of evidence and try to pressure you to have the trial ASAP, then if you keep asking for all of your other evidence they'll take their time and keep trying to wait you out for a few days and hope you run out of patience and time, but eventually they'll decide you're serious and out of the blue one day the judge will call you up and send you home rather than go through all the extra effort of actually doing their jobs.

Why? Because it really is a racket. Nothing more than a fundraising machine for the city and they want to raise as much money as possible as efficiently as possible. The whole system is designed for you to show up and plead guilty and pay and when you fight it - really fight it - you make the system inefficient and eventually the cost of the prosecution outweighs the revenue of your fine. So they move on to the next guy, who's about even money to not speak English and is scared that if he doesn't pay up he'll get in worse trouble. All the better for the City to raise money efficiently.

I used to have a really flexible job schedule, so I could do this, but unless you really can spend all day sitting down there on multiple occasions, they really will just try and wait you out.

That said, I only think freeway tickets are the ones that are a racket. Speeding on surface streets and in residential neighborhoods, where the likelihood of an accident and injury is much higher, really pisses me off and I'm glad that the city enforces the speed limit there.

Anyway, good luck.

[20thStDad]

More good info Cotton, thanks. I don't have the time to spend many days down there, so I think I'll take meeting Sprecher one time. So were you saying you didn't even make it into a courtroom with him, it went away before that happened?

It's not like I'm a whiner about being able to do whatever I want on the road. I got a ticket for running a red light a few months back and didn't complain or even get upset. It was before 6am, no traffic (except an observant cop), and I thought I would make the light but definitely didn't. No problem, driver safety course for me. But for this ticket - if he's saying I was following within 1 car length AND going 70, then he's admitting that the flow of traffic is going 70 as well, and that means I'm not "driving agressively" as he put it but instead keeping with a normal flow of traffic.

[TJones]

I don't know 20th, you sound like a real menace to society to me. 2 tickets in the same year ? Slow down pal, there are other roadragers on the highways you know.

[cottonmather0]

No, you probably won't meet him until you're in court and the judge has called your name. The first time you go to his office, the secretary basically processes you like a meat market herself. She'll tell you to be on the lookout for a new trial date notice in the mail, then you go to court on that day and just sit there as usual until the judge calls you up. Sprecher is a tall slightly overweight unkempt man with a beard and messy hair and he will introduce himself as you approach the bench. I wish I knew exactly how he does it, because he's obviously very good at it and you can tell by watching him from the gallery how hard he's working and lobbying the judge. I dot know if he's just trying to catch the cop out of the room or what, but he is very clearly working.

On the other, like I said, it's a lot of time and effort and probably worth the couple hundred bucks to pay a lawyer, but it is darn FUN to play the game and see how frustrated they all eventually get when you make them actually do their jobs and not just play shakedown artist. I probably didn't stop smiling for two weeks after the first time I got off. It was awesome.

[20thStDad]

I don't know 20th, you sound like a real menace to society to me. 2 tickets in the same year ? Slow down pal, there are other roadragers on the highways you know.

They should get out of my way! Seriously, everyone out there driving does at least 2 things per day that could get them a ticket. Getting caught is a loser's lottery.

[musicman]

I can't take a driver safety course because I did that a few months back for something I actually did wrong.