Slave Reparations In Chicago-land

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Heights2Bastrop]

america is a relatively young country, and built upon the blood of native americans who were doing quite nicely before any pilgrims arrived.

This is just another instance of the

[713 To 214]

The problem I have with having a

[bruce_oneal]

Almost every time I refuse to give money to a guy on the street he starts screaming at me that I'm a racist.  It has nothing to do with race -- the way I deal with homelessness is to give my money to the church.  It doens't make me a racist, it's just my choice.  But because I'm a white guy I'm automatically a racist if I don't start passing out fivers on every street corner I walk past.  I'd say they are the racists because they assume I am a particular way because of the color of my skin.

Two asides:

1. Once a really persistent guy followed me for three blocks screaming that I was a "racialist."  I'm still not sure what a racialist is.

2. I've tried something new -- I tell the guy, "I have cancer.  Why don't YOU give ME money."  So far, it's shut two of them up.  They just look down and walk away.  I probably deserve to get cancer for doing this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your implication is that all pandhandlers are black?

[713 To 214]

This is exactly how I feel around black people. I feel like they're branding me as "the white man", of just simply "the man". When working with all black crews at the firestation, and I ( or any other white person) walks in, they always get real quiet, and then leave the room. Whether they realize it or not, they're silently making a very loud statement.

It always feels like black people are waiting for us white people to say something wrong, so that we can be called racist. It's guilty until innocent with white racism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your contact with blacks, over the span of your life, has been limited. There may be some other reason. Have they given you a nickname?

If they are leaving the room because you are white, I would say that their behavior is shallow and ignorant. However, your post indicates that you are operating based upon an assumption (which may be wrong). Maybe you should just approach one, or all of them, and just ask them why they leave the room when you show up.

well it seems like we all have a lot to learn about each other ... still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^. . . and it further underscores the need for a dialogue.

[713 To 214]

your implication is that all pandhandlers are black?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^That's what I took from it too, but I'm going to give him/her the benefit of the doubt.

[713 To 214]

2. I've tried something new -- I tell the guy, "I have cancer.  Why don't YOU give ME money."  So far, it's shut two of them up.  They just look down and walk away.  I probably deserve to get cancer for doing this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^I've been doing the same thing (absent the "cancer patient" line) for the last few years. . .and it works. Also, I live in Dallas, and there is a pretty strongly-worded law against pan-handeling in the city limits. So, my back up line is "Well, you know that there is a law against pan-handeling in the city. . .Now, you wouldn't want't me to break the law, would you?"

[713 To 214]

It's conditioning: White people teach their kids to fear the "black man" and Black people teach their kids to fear the "white man". What a mess...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think what you are talking about is trust, rateher than hate. But, you are right. Whites and blacks in the U.S.) for the most part don't trust each other. Trust comes from understanding. . . and understanding comes from communication. That's why I would support a dialogue.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[tw2ntyse7en]

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[bruce_oneal]

Jesus H. Christ man - this is EXACTLY what we've been talking about. Jeez...

The man said, and I quote:

"...Asides:"

Meaning: "to put to the side". In context, which would almost be impossible to miss, he meant that he was using the original topic of racism and certain encounters with black homeless people (which is an assumption considering he makes no reference to race or ethnicity), to now refer to all homeless people in general. One example was of a man (race & ethnicity unidentified) that called him a "racialist". He simply wanted to know what a "racialist" was. (For the record racialist is in the dictionary, and means simply: someone who is racist.). His 2nd example described how he deals with all homeless people (again race & ethnicity unidentified) in general.

This is exactly the bullshit that I'm talking about. This is what I've been talking about this whole thread. Thank you Bruce O'Neal for proving my point.

Moderator: Shut this thread down. I think we've reached the end of this discussion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but i'm not a racist or accusing anyone of racism. i was just making trying to understand what he meant. from the wording of his original post, i assumed he was referring to black pandhandlers.

i could have been mistaken.

[Subdude]

Please watch it on personal attacks or use of profanity in responses.

Thanks.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[713 To 214]

It was as a child. At a rural school in Louisiana, there were only a handful of black kids. There were no Asian, Hispanic, or Middle Eastern kids. I was lucky that my parents, being from up north, weren't raised in an openly racist home the way my friends parents were in the south. The result was that my friends were shamelessly racist. They would regularly embarrass me in public. They flew conderate flags, kkk flags. The knew every evil & derogatory moniker for all minorities. Sadly, because of my friends, I learned them all too. My parents tried their best to keep our home a neutral place thankfully.

My whole life I was taught by everyone that Houston was a dirty city with crooked Mexicans and nothing but ghetto & smog. They would say that the only saving grace was Astroworld & the Astrodome (how "hick" is that?). Fortunately for me, my wife brought me here to meet here family and I was shocked to find out how wrong they were and how much I had been lied to about.

As for contact with the black community, it was non-exsistant until after high school, when I joined the fire department. I've been stationed in black majority neighborhoods ever since, both in Lake Charles & Houston.

What did you mean about getting a nickname? The only racial nickname I've ever got was here in Houston. I made friends with mostly my Hispanic classmates at the Fire Academy. They call me "wuedo" (spelling?). They told me it's a compliment coming from them. Maybe they're secretly picking on me and I don't know. I don't really care either way. But no, a black person has never given me a nickname, racial or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1st, let me say I appreciate you sharing some personal facts about your background. It shows that you're a strong and courageous individual. I asked about a nickname because I thought that maybe it would shed some light on how your co-workers view you. For example, if they called you something like "Whiteboy" or "Mr. Vanilla," I would think that much of how they view you is directly tied to race.

Well, I would, but what's the point? I figure if someone doesn't like me, and they choose to stay away from me, all the better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You assume that they don't like you. As far as you approaching them, I encourage you to find out what's the problem, if any. You've already proven to me that you're a bigger person than they are. I think that you'll be pleasantly surprised. I could be wrong though. However, I would want to know what others, whose job is to assist me in dangerous/life-threatening situations, think about me.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[bruce_oneal]

We gossip worse than old women at the beauty shop! So if I were working with someone that I have a grudge with, and something were to happen to one of us, the other one would be under great scrutiny. We could be considered guilty until proven innocent. The military is much the same way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i worked (civilian) for the police department in dc. same way ... cops, black and white, were the WORST gossips. almost like a soap opera every day listening to their stories.

27, so far i like you ... i do not know you, but i like you. you seem like an intelligent, thoughtful person. i know we may disagree on some points and that is fine. we are obviously from differing backgrounds (racially, ethnically, socio-economic, and probably politically) but one thing i like is that you have THOUGHT about your positions and state them eloquently and without (at least to me) malice.

i'd have your back in a fire too.

[editor]

your implication is that all pandhandlers are black?

I'm sorry, that wasn't the impression I was tryinig to give. It was only the black panhandlers who have called me a racist. But that's not to say that the only panhandlers I've seen are black.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Hunter]

Okay I apologize now but I am a little late joining this discussion. Life called me away for a while.

Now on the subject on reparations.

Who is to pay? Me?

I never owned any slaves and not a single of my past relatives or my wife

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[MidtownCoog]

Instead of using "Oriental"

So your wife must be mad at the UK, eh?

That's the standard term they use. As in from the Orient.

She better not visit London.

[MidtownCoog]

And another thing.

If you are from Mexico, you are a Mexican. The language is Spanish, but Spainards are from Spain, not Mexico.

Just like if you are from Texas, you are Texan

I guess we should we rename Mexican Restaurants to "Spanish Restaurants"?

But that's not correct. Mexican food and Spanish food are two entirely different animals.

PC gone wild.

[editor]

(Funny Fact - Oriental rugs come from Persia & the Middle East even though the Orient is considered the far east regions of Asia!)

This is a great example of how the world view changes over the centuries. "Oriental" is the adjective form of "Orient," the Latin for East. In the 1600's and before what we now know as the Middle East was the far east, as in the eastern extent of European exploration. People used to call that area "The Orient" meaning "The East." As the Silk Road, the Spice Route, and the Tobacco Road expanded European knowledge of Asia and Asia Minor, the definition of "Oriental" changed to mean what we now know as the Far East, though even that term sounds archaic. At some point the "Orient" covered to great an area, and the term Middle East was created, though I can find no date for its introduction into common usage.

The opposite of "Oriental" (Eastern) is "Occidental" (Western), though I know of no Americans who take offense at being called Oxy-Clean.

This entire reply was off-topic. I'm sorry. I really have a hard time staying on topic these days.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[tw2ntyse7en]

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[MidtownCoog]

Cause you said "Mexican" is offensive.

And that Oriental moniker for racism must be a Louisana Coon Arse thing, becuase I never hear it used.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Hunter]

It was 40 acres & a mule and I think that's the idea behind reparations. The question is how much is 40 acres & mule from 1865 worth in today's market? Also, the question comes in to play as to figure out what the success rate of 40 acres and a mule would have brought someone. Someone could be the biggest supplier of corn in the nation today, from just starting with 40 acres & a mule 150 years ago. We'll never know because freed slaves never got their promise or a chance to use it. So it makes it very hard to put a dollar amount on an apology & 150 years of undetermined success or failure.

Hunter I'm not picking on you but I'm going to offer advice:

I hope no toes are stepped on.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah yes 40 acres and a mule. I knew I had that wrong!

No toes were stepped on we are all entitled to our own opinions but I have met many that preferred to be called Oriental rather than anything else and Blacks that preferred to be called colored. Now days everyone seems to have some thing that they all want to be called. I have one fellow that does not like to be called a white guy; he is instead an Irish American. And a lady that not black or colored, She is an African American. Go figure!

I can

[bruce_oneal]

Mexican is offensive when refering to Hispanic people you simply say: "...those Mexicans". It's no different that saying: "...those colored people".

As for the use of the word oriental, maybe it is just a Louisiana thing. Still, I'm just repeating what my wife told me. You wanna argue with her? Be my guest. I'll save you a seat in the doghouse when she gets done with you too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

27 is right ... also, referring to all hispanic people as mexicans does not take into account guatamalans, puerto ricans, salvadorans, etc. ... these folks don't take kindly to being called mexicans ... not that they have something wrong with mexicans, but they aren't. get it?

there are so many threads here i wanted to respond to ... but i just simply don't have the energy.

[bruce_oneal]

Ah yes 40 acres and a mule. I knew I had that wrong!

No toes were stepped on we are all entitled to our own opinions but I have met many that preferred to be called Oriental rather than anything else and Blacks that preferred to be called colored.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

really? i have never met a black person (including me) that liked the word 'colored' ... not here or in south africa, where they use the term as well to mean others of color (indians, etc.)

[editor]

really?  i have never met a black person (including me) that liked the word 'colored' ... not here or in south africa, where they use the term as well to mean others of color (indians, etc.)

I know a very wise old black man who bristles at the term "African American."

He always says, "Since when did 'black' become a dirty word?"

Seems that if "white" is OK, conversely "black" should also be OK.

[VelvetJ]

I know a very wise old black man who bristles at the term "African American."

[bruce_oneal]

I know a very wise old black man who bristles at the term "African American." 

He always says, "Since when did 'black' become a dirty word?"

Seems that if "white" is OK, conversely "black" should also be OK.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

in some ways i actually prefer black (although my skin is brown and not black), although i use african american to be pc.

[Hunter]

When a GROUP or a PEOPLE have been wronged or harmed for as long and as profoudly as Black Americans, to the point of where it's effects are still evident, IMO at the VERY least, an a apology should be given. Every group in this country has it's own uniqueness, but no one's experience in America has been quite that of Black Americans. Black Americans define the words "American Freedom".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There have been many in America that have been wronged just as long if not longer than the blacks. Take the Native American Indians! Or if you want to haw about the Hebrews (Or to some the Jews). Just to name a few. Yes the Jews were treated badly and in many areas they still are. Just in different ways. They just do not lay down and say oh poor, poor me. They just go out and do something bout it like get a better education And then come back and get even by buying the offending place as Jerry Lewis did in Florida when a hotel denied him entry just because he was Jewish. So when he became rich and famous he came back bought the place fired the whole staff and put an end to it.

As for the answer of what to call someone be it Black, Colored, or African American? Well just from the responses on this board I will give it a rest. So far 3 different people have wanted to be called 3 different things so that answers that!

[debmartin]

i wonder if americans could get along better if a movement could be started to call ourselves "americans". anyone wishing to signify their ethnicity could of course be americans of __________ descent. calling someone african-american, mexican-american or asian-american etc. seems to be more of a limitation than an expression of freedom, because it sets us all apart from the onset. i celebrate my irish/italian catholic heritage on certain days but also enjoy participating in a variety of occasions that celebrate other nationalities. especially during war time i feel being pro-american helps to bridge the gap and promote unity.

debmartin

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Hunter]

Personally I was very impressed by that one lady (Can

[debmartin]

houston has experienced a female mayor, police chief and school superintendent, and there was a female governor several years back, so i guess we could be considered progressive to a certain degree.

debmartin