Slave Reparations In Chicago-land

[Heights2Bastrop]

I

[713 To 214]

I

[Heights2Bastrop]

Repeating in case anyone missed it the first time:

"If you want reparations, then let

[713 To 214]

Repeating in case anyone missed it the first time:

"If you want reparations, then let

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[713 To 214]

lol...Are you sure? I'm a little fuzzy on some of those points. Could someone whip an outline up for me?

Seriously though, what do you think about talks? Take a moment and answer your own question.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if the question was directed at me. . .I would say. . . sure, I support a dialogue. It would give individuals like "Heights2Bastrop" a chance to get some things off of their chest. You see. . .the porblem is that we, as a country, have never had an open discussion on the subject that led to a democratically determined conclusion. . .even if that was nothing more than a declaration of reconciliation. The wounds of slavery have not healed for many people and I think that an open, and frank discussion will go a long way toward accomplishing that. That's just my opinion though.

[bruce_oneal]

Yeah, all of those so called "civil rights activists" are idiots.  They are part of the problem.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ALL is a whole lot. it leaves no room for SOME. you sure ALL of these people are the problem? that sounds problematic.

[bruce_oneal]

Sounds like you feel guilty (because you chose that word, not me).  What does a dialogue about reparations make you feel guilty?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly! why should it make anyone feel guilty?

[MidtownCoog]

Matta es queso.

[editor]

Well, if the question was directed at me. . .I would say. . . sure, I support a dialogue.  It would give individuals like "Heights2Bastrop" a chance to get some things off of their chest.  You see. . .the porblem is that we, as a country, have never had an open discussion on the subject that led to a democratically determined conclusion. . .even if that was nothing more than a declaration of reconciliation.  The wounds of slavery have not healed for many people and I think that an open, and frank discussion will go a long way toward accomplishing that.  That's just my opinion though.

The nation hasn't had an open dialogue on lots of issues -- like giving Alaska back to Russia, or statehood for Puerto Rico, or allowing Florida to secede from the Union. Just because there hasn't been discussion on a particular issue doesn't necessarily mean there is a mandate to have a discussion on it.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Heights2Bastrop]

The problem I have with having a

[bruce_oneal]

The problem I have with having a

[Heights2Bastrop]

That

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[debmartin]

personally i feel if i were a direct descendent of slavery and someone offered me money i would be insulted. i would feel as if their guilt was a motivating factor alone and my forgiveness would not be for sale. slavery is only one chapter in a collection of shame - a cruel and primitive practice that was discarded as society became enlightened. to me it is all about forgiveness, and it is up to each individual to come to terms with that element in themselves and then with others.

today i watched "the pianist" which is based upon a true story about the holocaust. i was moved at the end when the german officer who helped the musician survive told him they would survive because "god" wanted them to. i felt sure the german would be saved for his good deed but in the end he was not. not fair but nonetheless realistic - i felt it was a testament to the endurance of the human spirit.

america is a relatively young country, and built upon the blood of native americans who were doing quite nicely before any pilgrims arrived. justification for indians killing whites? not in my opinion because equal wrongs cannot inspire equal rights. america as the "melting pot" until too many immigrants arrived, justification for hanging "no irish" signs in the window? not if you were irish.

my maternal grandfather was born in kilkenny ireland and my paternal grandfather in sicily. i do not feel responsible for any of the crimes perpetrated by the mafia but on some level i feel shamed by the ignorance that allowed it to perpetuate. perhaps that is why i was raised with such capacity to connect with human suffering. i watched roots in the 70's and i cried. i was so horrified, just as i was reading the diary of anne frank. i read the scarlett letter with anger and my point is that if we could all just drop the defenses we could all probably just agree that right is right and wrong is wrong.

in college i attended a workshop where women argued about whether white women or black women had suffered more. i asked if we could just agree that all women have suffered and have triumphed at some point in history. i suggested that once we could move through the past into the present we could open some dialog into the future. i hope the same can be done here on this thread.

debmartin

[bruce_oneal]

This is exactly how I feel around black people. I feel like they're branding me as "the white man", of just simply "the man". When working with all black crews at the firestation, and I ( or any other white person) walks in, they always get real quiet, and then leave the room. Whether they realize it or not, they're silently making a very loud statement.

It always feels like black people are waiting for us white people to say something wrong, so that we can be called racist. It's guilty until innocent with white racism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well it seems like we all have a lot to learn about each other ... still.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[editor]

This is exactly how I feel around black people. I feel like they're branding me as "the white man", of just simply "the man".

Almost every time I refuse to give money to a guy on the street he starts screaming at me that I'm a racist. It has nothing to do with race -- the way I deal with homelessness is to give my money to the church. It doens't make me a racist, it's just my choice. But because I'm a white guy I'm automatically a racist if I don't start passing out fivers on every street corner I walk past. I'd say they are the racists because they assume I am a particular way because of the color of my skin.

Two asides:

1. Once a really persistent guy followed me for three blocks screaming that I was a "racialist." I'm still not sure what a racialist is.

2. I've tried something new -- I tell the guy, "I have cancer. Why don't YOU give ME money." So far, it's shut two of them up. They just look down and walk away. I probably deserve to get cancer for doing this.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[tw2ntyse7en]

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[Heights2Bastrop]

america is a relatively young country, and built upon the blood of native americans who were doing quite nicely before any pilgrims arrived.

This is just another instance of the

[713 To 214]

The problem I have with having a

[bruce_oneal]

Almost every time I refuse to give money to a guy on the street he starts screaming at me that I'm a racist.  It has nothing to do with race -- the way I deal with homelessness is to give my money to the church.  It doens't make me a racist, it's just my choice.  But because I'm a white guy I'm automatically a racist if I don't start passing out fivers on every street corner I walk past.  I'd say they are the racists because they assume I am a particular way because of the color of my skin.

Two asides:

1. Once a really persistent guy followed me for three blocks screaming that I was a "racialist."  I'm still not sure what a racialist is.

2. I've tried something new -- I tell the guy, "I have cancer.  Why don't YOU give ME money."  So far, it's shut two of them up.  They just look down and walk away.  I probably deserve to get cancer for doing this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

your implication is that all pandhandlers are black?

[713 To 214]

This is exactly how I feel around black people. I feel like they're branding me as "the white man", of just simply "the man". When working with all black crews at the firestation, and I ( or any other white person) walks in, they always get real quiet, and then leave the room. Whether they realize it or not, they're silently making a very loud statement.

It always feels like black people are waiting for us white people to say something wrong, so that we can be called racist. It's guilty until innocent with white racism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think your contact with blacks, over the span of your life, has been limited. There may be some other reason. Have they given you a nickname?

If they are leaving the room because you are white, I would say that their behavior is shallow and ignorant. However, your post indicates that you are operating based upon an assumption (which may be wrong). Maybe you should just approach one, or all of them, and just ask them why they leave the room when you show up.

well it seems like we all have a lot to learn about each other ... still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^. . . and it further underscores the need for a dialogue.

[713 To 214]

your implication is that all pandhandlers are black?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^That's what I took from it too, but I'm going to give him/her the benefit of the doubt.

[713 To 214]

2. I've tried something new -- I tell the guy, "I have cancer.  Why don't YOU give ME money."  So far, it's shut two of them up.  They just look down and walk away.  I probably deserve to get cancer for doing this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

^I've been doing the same thing (absent the "cancer patient" line) for the last few years. . .and it works. Also, I live in Dallas, and there is a pretty strongly-worded law against pan-handeling in the city limits. So, my back up line is "Well, you know that there is a law against pan-handeling in the city. . .Now, you wouldn't want't me to break the law, would you?"

[713 To 214]

It's conditioning: White people teach their kids to fear the "black man" and Black people teach their kids to fear the "white man". What a mess...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think what you are talking about is trust, rateher than hate. But, you are right. Whites and blacks in the U.S.) for the most part don't trust each other. Trust comes from understanding. . . and understanding comes from communication. That's why I would support a dialogue.

[tw2ntyse7en]

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[tw2ntyse7en]

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