Moore713

The area retail plan had already been revised after Macys closed to focus on making Green St the ancor 

 

It doesn't matter when they knew Macys was closing or how much the mayor supports the Dallas corridor. The project was anchored by Macys and isnt much without it. Corridors like these need major tenants to pull it together. A couple of small clothing retailers, a deli and coffee shop will do nothing to build a string retail district.

It doesn't matter what hilcorp does, unless they can pull of a Macys or even something lesser like a Target, the area isn't going to evolve as planned.

Parker can support the area till she is blue in the face but she cant dictate where the market heads. Undoubtedly she will improve the area, but I don't think the reality will be anywhere near what was planned.

MACY'S is gone, Sarcowitz (sp) will remain a parking garage. Don't mean to sound like a downer but I don't think the project can be anchored by greenstreet. To me, too much depends on commitments from other parties.

Like I said, I do believe that downtown will develop a strong retail component, I just don't think it's going to be on Dallas. I think it's going to be in a newer area of downtown. Walking around Dallas up to the shops at Houston center is rather depressing. So many concrete walks instead of store fronts. Conversions are going to be expensive, parking is a problem...

I just think that newer developments will build wiser and incorporate retail components at ground level and that will be the area that retail will make a resurgence

 

 

 

 

It doesn't matter when they knew Macys was closing or how much the mayor supports the Dallas corridor. The project was anchored by Macys and isnt much without it. Corridors like these need major tenants to pull it together. A couple of small clothing retailers, a deli and coffee shop will do nothing to build a string retail district.

It doesn't matter what hilcorp does, unless they can pull of a Macys or even something lesser like a Target, the area isn't going to evolve as planned.

Parker can support the area till she is blue in the face but she cant dictate where the market heads. Undoubtedly she will improve the area, but I don't think the reality will be anywhere near what was planned.

MACY'S is gone, Sarcowitz (sp) will remain a parking garage. Don't mean to sound like a downer but I don't think the project can be anchored by greenstreet. To me, too much depends on commitments from other parties.

Like I said, I do believe that downtown will develop a strong retail component, I just don't think it's going to be on Dallas. I think it's going to be in a newer area of downtown. Walking around Dallas up to the shops at Houston center is rather depressing. So many concrete walks instead of store fronts. Conversions are going to be expensive, parking is a problem...

I just think that newer developments will build wiser and incorporate retail components at ground level and that will be the area that retail will make a resurgence

 

 

 

I've got no problems being in the minority. Following the herd is overrated.

 

Also, did you see me mention the architecture of the Foley's building anywhere in my post? No, you didn't. I actually thought the building itself was ugly. However, having worked downtown for many years, I can tell you how nice it was to have a Foley's right down the block. I got a lot of stuff done on lunch breaks and it allowed me to avoid the Galleria. It was nice seeing little old ladies riding the bus/train downtown to shop and the window displays during the various Holidays was a helluva lot better to look at than a parking garage.

want makes you you thing that the ground floor will not have reatail ?

100% underwhelming. We lose Foley's and gain a suburban-looking office tower with a garage facing Main Street Square. When I heard it was going to be 23 floors, I was hoping it would be some sort of architectural marvel but this thing is a total "moo."

yeahh your in the minority of people who think that train wreak of a building was worth saving.. I would take this glass building over that windowless box anyday

That might kind of cool, actually. I remember in some other thread somebody raised the idea of a sunken plaza, that might be cool here.

 

I had not thought about a sunken plaza, did,nt the old foley building use to tie into the tunnels as well, so you could  exit the tunnels right into the plaza.. it would do what Houston has been trying to do for years tie the tunnels and the streets together

Or if they kept the Macy's building and just turned it into a parking garage.

And that is the kind of boring thinking that has keep downtown with a bad rep..lets turn prime poperty into a damn parking spot..sigh.. I was looking at the area yesterday and it dawn on me even if this project fell though this would be a prime place for a second discovery green type and would not harm the retail plan for Dallas st

cloud713, I love you guy....  but sometimes your "fixation" as per retail, seems to be a bit over the top.

 

I once lived downtown Houston, and I simply loved the place.  During the short time that I lived there (3+years) I systematically witnessed a broad amount of retail just basically disappear....  right before my eyes.  It broke my heart that last time I visited Macy's downtown upon one of my return visits from Afghanistan.  I walked in, only to view a strange array of basically cheap looking clothing / accessories.  I felt that I had ventured into K-mart (not that there is anything wrong with K-mart).  But I'm sure that you may catch my drift....

 

As I have stated as per my aforementioned post "this particular site upon Main Street, is probably the best / hottest site within the state".  And if a new edifice is going to be positioned as per this site, then it should with out a doubt.... be first class in every category.  Upon this particular site, we should never be fixated upon the garage.... no matter where it's located.  The office aspect as per this edifice should stand out completely.  Just as "BG Place" as well as the now proposed "609 Main".  In my view, the garage aspects of these particular edifices, are positioned as they should be.....

 

Should any retail be proposed, then the retail aspect should definitely be highlighted in the broadest terms.  Especially upon this particular site, in lieu of the  "Downtown Management's" newest plans  centering upon Dallas Street becoming Downtown's signature retail avenue.  I think that this particular initiative can be a reality for Downtown Houston.  But it needs to be done upon a thoughtful as we as a consistent basis, or it shall end up just like "Houston Pavilions" disaster....

There it is again that need to mis-represent the Houston Pavillion  only failed from  mangement stand point, the bars and  entertinment venues  and restraunats all have done quite well. Even the limited retail has manganed to hang in there. The area is one of the most people heavy I have seen in Donwtown Houston..Could it step it up of course, but we all know that will requaire downtown Houston to address a number of other problems first...The low residentcy rate the first redevepoment plan called for a DT population of 16,0000 by now, but the econ crashed and goals fail off.. the total popluation  minus that absurd  adding of the prison population is actually around 3,000 even if you count the new units that are being built and planned then we are looking at another 2,000 in less than 2 years. I would like to see this tread continue, This is what is needed to substain the area and by deflaut draw in more retail and venues

Of all the proposed buildings potentially going up around downtown, this is the one I have the least amount of faith in.  Hines got out in front (which they were always in the front with 609), and Skanska is likely not going to spend the millions tearing down the Houston Club building and not build something there.

 

Chevron could go either way?  I understand they are looking to build a suburban campus like Exxon out near Spring Woods/The Woodlands - if that happens perhaps they move from Downtown?  If that does happen, then perhaps they will vacate both fromer Enron buildings?  That would leave 2 40 floor towers virtually empty and place little need for something like Stream to move forward.

What in blue are you yapping about, the last interview they did they keep going on about creating a urban campus ,nothing about being like exxon"Together with Chevron's existing Houston buildings, the new tower will become part of a campus-like environment with indoor and outdoor common areas, dining facilities, a fitness center and training and conference rooms." That is the only mention they ever made about a campus style.

Eado station was cancelled. I mentioned it was the tip of the iceberg.

How is it the tip of the iceberg when we already know that some of the propseed building whould not get built, and that those that struck , first and second would corner the market , this was not unexpected which makes you tip of the ice berg comment absurd....It was never a question of if all of them gets built, but which ones would.

Another one that isn't going anywhere? Thanks Eado Station!

huh what are you talking about

Most of this is not shocking news, we knew going in the first one off the ground would reduce demand for the others... My bet maybe one more gets off the ground before the other developers shelve thier plans at least for now..

So who do most thing will get off the ground next ? I am hoping it is Exxsex who has the most intresting design even more so than 609..  so who do you think will be the next to drop shovel?

Omg its a parking garage I would rather have a 16 story than a flat lot..Plus a story still leaves room for ground floor while still addressing  Houston need for parking.. hell it actuall makes it easler .. in stead of a lot that can hold maybe 235, you can now hold 1600.. while not breaking street level retail(if you wanted)

Does any body know what is going on these places.. the Harris county Building has had it ground floor boarded up for a while.. and 405 main adj parking lot is fenced off and as of today had Heavy construction trucks on it

its about time midtown starts to make a presence in the sky... hopefully this trend continues so we can start to work on connecting downtowns skyline with the TMCs skyline through midtown and the museum district.

was'nt there suppose to be a medical tower proposed for midtown, but it feel thu after the economy tanked?

I have that dream of a main street lined with high rasies and towers.. 

I wonder where this near by tower will be ?

The article says that they would like to develop a couple of high-rise projects.  Two more residential developments in the southern part of downtown* might be enough to finally start ongoing redevelopment of that area.

 

 

*And if anyone ever suggests something like "Sodo" I will beat them over the head.  

I am just glad we are getting developers with vison, people who can look out at the parking lots of DT and see block on top of blocks of residental .. these are the type of people Houston needs..

They probably just don't want to lose the investment they already made, although perhaps they could flip it as-is and still come out ahead.

True but even thou we all know that those who oppose them will lose in the end.. How long is does  this project get delayed in the process? months, years ?.. In the end they still lose millions in lawyer fee.s and various other costs ..

I just dont understand, with Downtown hading out tax breaks like crazy to get places like this built, and other more scenic areas in Houston begging for development why are the  developers dead set on pushing this one.. A place like this would be great in the Herman park area...Can someone tell me why they are fighting so hard for a area that does not even want them there.

It is exciting to hear that DT Houston reminds him of Chicago 20 years ago. I hope all of the development continues well into the future.

I am hoping that the comment they are planning to be agreesive means they will have something in the works by at least Q2.. How great would it be if they built where skyhouse and Hines proposed  6 story is combined with Houston House.. would create a nice little dense area of resdiental

I welcome anything that will destroy one more lot

its going to be so strange looking at a vacant lot when I catch the train to go to school. Man I hope this project does not hit any bumps are it going to ruin the look of the area

 They like the trails so much they can clean the whole thing for the next 7 years

This is not about attracting "suburbanites" to shop downtown. While they might make up part of the mix of shoppers, this is about providing a district in the heart of the city for the growing number of people who live, work, and visit downtown. Ground floor retail and retail that is open on the weekends is sorely lacking downtown. As the new (and not even announced yet) residential towers and mid-rises get built, as the rail lines are completed, as the new hotels are completed, as the convention center expands and new and bigger conventions are added, as the East End and Midtown fill in, as Buffalo Bayou continues to be transformed and becomes even more of an attraction, etc, there will be more and more reasons for downtown to need retail. In its current state, downtown will not be able to meet that need. A little planning for current and future needs would go a long way.

 

Just look at Market Square's revival. Most people seemed to write it off as dead forever just a few months ago. Then the little park that many said would always just be a homeless hangout was rebuilt. Things change, cities change; Houston is finally starting to change in ways that many of us probably hoped it would a long time ago. 

Thank you finale some who gets it,!! They said no one would ride the rail a waste of tax dollars, but it averages more than  41,000 people a day Q1 2013 numbers. Which give it limited  length actually makes it one of the most used LRT in the nation per mile.Ihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_light_rail_systems_by_ridership

They said no one would bite on the Tax break for resdinetal. How many are on the planning board now ? There excuse no one wants to live downtown..Then why is the 900 are so units almost all sold or rented out ?

Now they say no one will bite on the Retail tax break.. they point to Green st as proof, while ignoring that Green st failed on a mangament side, not a venue. the business that make up green st  have faired quite well actually. Second they keep thinking this about bringing people in the burbs back to the city.. it not the math has already shown that 130,000 people live within 3 mile radios of Downtown of various income.. 130,000 people who are a LRT ride away a 5 min car ride away. It not that they dont want to shop downtown its that there is nothing for them to shop at downtown. The economic base is already there for the first time in a long time all the right parts in are in place to make DT a place to go... I think people are hung up on the 80,s when we moved too fast, but is,nt there also a danger of moving too slow and letting this window to transform dt Houston close ?

The 3600 block already has businesses.  Are they going away?  The 3400 & 3500 blocks are both parking lots.

Look at the rendering closer... the buineess are still there..