dalparadise Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I stated much earlier in this thread that attorneys used to be able to act as brokers, but that has been drastically curtailed. We currently can only act as our own agent. I did it on my last home purchase in 2004, and received a nice 3% check at closing.Interestingly, when I used an agent in 1999 to buy my first home inside the loop, he quickly stated that he would not work for me if I was going to ask for a cut of his commission. I let him have his full 3%, because I trusted his expertise on inner loop property, and he did a good job.HeightsGuy, there already is a database for real estate forms. All of the realtors use them, too. It is the Texas Real Estate Commission website.http://www.trec.state.tx.us/If you know which forms to use and how to fill them out, you are free to use them, which brings up a good point on why there are and always will be realtors. Many people do not know how to use these legal forms. Others do not have the time. Some doubt their negotiating abilities. If you think you can do all of this on your own, there is no law or group to stop you. MLS reminds me of the people who call my law office and proudly tell me that they are handling their own legal matter, then ask me how to file paperwork, what the law is on some matter, and sometimes even ask me for my forms. My forms are proprietary. Some legal document programs are very expensive. My legal expertise was amassed at great time and expense over 19 years...and this cheap bastard gets offended that I don't cheerfully give it away after he just suggested that any moron like himself can do it? I always politely tell them that the info he needs is available at the county law library and an intelligent person like himself should be able to find it. They usually reply that that is time consuming and I reply that that is why people pay me.MLS is proprietary material owned by the realtors. It is a very valuable tool. Like my legal forms, it saves time. But, like my forms, you don't get to use it just because you realize how valuable it is.Thank you for saying in one post what it took me four or five to state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeightsGuy Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I stated much earlier in this thread that attorneys used to be able to act as brokers, but that has been drastically curtailed. We currently can only act as our own agent. I did it on my last home purchase in 2004, and received a nice 3% check at closing.Interestingly, when I used an agent in 1999 to buy my first home inside the loop, he quickly stated that he would not work for me if I was going to ask for a cut of his commission. I let him have his full 3%, because I trusted his expertise on inner loop property, and he did a good job.HeightsGuy, there already is a database for real estate forms. All of the realtors use them, too. It is the Texas Real Estate Commission website.http://www.trec.state.tx.us/If you know which forms to use and how to fill them out, you are free to use them, which brings up a good point on why there are and always will be realtors. Many people do not know how to use these legal forms. Others do not have the time. Some doubt their negotiating abilities. If you think you can do all of this on your own, there is no law or group to stop you. MLS reminds me of the people who call my law office and proudly tell me that they are handling their own legal matter, then ask me how to file paperwork, what the law is on some matter, and sometimes even ask me for my forms. My forms are proprietary. Some legal document programs are very expensive. My legal expertise was amassed at great time and expense over 19 years...and this cheap bastard gets offended that I don't cheerfully give it away after he just suggested that any moron like himself can do it? I always politely tell them that the info he needs is available at the county law library and an intelligent person like himself should be able to find it. They usually reply that that is time consuming and I reply that that is why people pay me.MLS is proprietary material owned by the realtors. It is a very valuable tool. Like my legal forms, it saves time. But, like my forms, you don't get to use it just because you realize how valuable it is.Red and Dal, re-read my post, I meant to say buyer's agents instead of RE agents as a whole. I do think RE agents provide a valuable service for those who need it, but I think most of that is acting as a seller's agent. Buyer's agents do me no good. I don't really care that I have access to the forms, as a buyer I want access to the listings. I would much rather pay a lawyer $500 an hour to act on my behalf with the contracts than paying someone with a RE certification 3%, or even worse giving 3% to the seller's agent "acting" on my behalf. I've always had a lawyer at my side when I buy houses, and I hate that I have to pay out of my pocket for them while giving 3% to someone that doesn't make a sound on my behalf the whole time I am there.Dal, you're right, the MLS database is proprietary. I fully understand that and agree they are under no obligation to open it up. However, someone out there will build a free MLS eventually that will match the current one. As I stated before, once that happens it's only a matter of time til buyer's agents go the way of travel agents and full-service brokers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Red and Dal, re-read my post, I meant to say buyer's agents instead of RE agents as a whole. I do think RE agents provide a valuable service for those who need it, but I think most of that is acting as a seller's agent. Buyer's agents do me no good. I don't really care that I have access to the forms, as a buyer I want access to the listings. I would much rather pay a lawyer $500 an hour to act on my behalf with the contracts than paying someone with a RE certification 3%, or even worse giving 3% to the seller's agent "acting" on my behalf. I've always had a lawyer at my side when I buy houses, and I hate that I have to pay out of my pocket for them while giving 3% to someone that doesn't make a sound on my behalf the whole time I am there.Dal, you're right, the MLS database is proprietary. I fully understand that and agree they are under no obligation to open it up. However, someone out there will build a free MLS eventually that will match the current one. As I stated before, once that happens it's only a matter of time til buyer's agents go the way of travel agents and full-service brokers.As a buyer, a buyer's agent costs you nothing. That 3% is not up for grabs. It is paid by the seller and the listing agent to the buyer's agent. Why would you want to pay for buyer's representation when you can get it for free?The MLS is created by the HAR, not out of the goodness of their hearts, but to generate that commission. If someone creates another one, it will need to generate similar or superior sales in order to become popular. In order to do that, it will need to provide the lure of commissions to agents to bring listings to it. Very few agents are exclusively buyers' reps. They do that to earn some money in between servicing their listings. The point is the agents are working together in this, but each is supposed to look out for his client's best interest.The "free MLS" you speak of was invented long ago. It's the newspaper. It is hopelessly less effective than the MLS that rewards agents for participating in it.PS-- yopu sound like you're coming from the northeast. Buyer's rep is relatively new to Texas and is not the same as it is in New York or Boston. Here, the seller pays the full commission to both brokers. One broker can't actually handle both sides of a deal (full-service, as you put it). That broker must enter into an intermediary agreement with the buyer's consent and agree to represent the interests of both parties. Only then does a broker receive the full commission, usually 6%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeightsGuy Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 As a buyer, a buyer's agent costs you nothing. That 3% is not up for grabs. It is paid by the seller and the listing agent to the buyer's agent. Why would you want to pay for buyer's representation when you can get it for free?What do you mean by free? Nothing is free. 3% of a $200,000 home is $6000 the last I checked. I wonder where the seller would come up with that kind of money? Surely they wouldn't factor that into the sales price, would they;)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalparadise Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 What do you mean by free? Nothing is free. 3% of a $200,000 home is $6000 the last I checked. I wonder where the seller would come up with that kind of money? Surely they wouldn't factor that into the sales price, would they;)?Yes. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. (insert stupid combination of punctuation here, to make a face). My response was to a person whom I believe has been working under another system unlike the one in Texas, where the buyer's agent fee is actually paid by the buyer, not the seller. That goes to the core of this discussion, as to whether the commission is ever "in play". Since it's negotiated at the listing agreement, not the contract, it's a done-deal before the buyer is even identified. Therefor, it's none of the buyer's business WITHIN THIS SYSTEM. Since you seem to have a higher understanding of how the system works, perhaps you could develop and market a more successful one. I know I'd like to see it. I'm not thrilled with the prospect of having to pay that commission when I get ready to sell my house. If I want to do it quickly and for the best price, however, I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldogg Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 Who care's if they (realtor) get 6% if in the end you NEGOTIATE what you want?because that is a real cost to the seller and affects the bottom line price that the buyer has to pay... is it not obvious?Saying such is not dishonest. Why do you assume my broker gets 3%? They don't, thank you very much.Well if they don't then you can state such. The norm is 3% to the buyer's agent so that is the assumption.The only thing that is dishonest is to expect compensation for a brokerage fee when you are not an agent and did no work for it. Even though you do not believe it, I do get paid for doing more than showing up with my license.Why is it dishonest for me to submit my own contract, do my own searches on the MLS, drive myself to see the properties and negotiate the terms of the contract directly with the selling agent and assume that is not the same work that a buyer's agent would do?? Oh yeah, and I can call for a survery, inspection and appraisal as well. Whoopteee doo. So again, how am I dishonest in asking for that compensation?? Simply because I'm not paying into the real estate game right?? The private real estate club. Pay the fees after passing the course and I'm able to get that 3% reduction. It boils down to $$$ realtors are protecting their own interests. It seems dirty.*************one question seperate of all the anti-trust feelings I have for the real estate market... if someone passes the required coursework and is issued a license, but that license is inactive because they aren't working as a salesperson for a broker, can they represent themselves in purchasing their own home and receive the commission??? I would think that if an attorney can get the commission on their own home that a licensed realtor who isn't active could as well. From my reading of the state statute, the only thing stopping the license from being active is that you don't have a broker and are not representing others... correct? This seems to be a grey area that no one I've talked to can answer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rps324 Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 because that is a real cost to the seller and affects the bottom line price that the buyer has to pay... is it not obvious?Well if they don't then you can state such. The norm is 3% to the buyer's agent so that is the assumption.Why is it dishonest for me to submit my own contract, do my own searches on the MLS, drive myself to see the properties and negotiate the terms of the contract directly with the selling agent and assume that is not the same work that a buyer's agent would do?? Oh yeah, and I can call for a survery, inspection and appraisal as well. Whoopteee doo. So again, how am I dishonest in asking for that compensation?? Simply because I'm not paying into the real estate game right?? The private real estate club. Pay the fees after passing the course and I'm able to get that 3% reduction. It boils down to $$$ realtors are protecting their own interests. It seems dirty.*************one question seperate of all the anti-trust feelings I have for the real estate market... if someone passes the required coursework and is issued a license, but that license is inactive because they aren't working as a salesperson for a broker, can they represent themselves in purchasing their own home and receive the commission??? I would think that if an attorney can get the commission on their own home that a licensed realtor who isn't active could as well. From my reading of the state statute, the only thing stopping the license from being active is that you don't have a broker and are not representing others... correct? This seems to be a grey area that no one I've talked to can answer for me.Commissions are a real cost to the sellers, but ultimately it is buyers that determine what properties sell for, not the sellers. If you do the work yourself and can negotiate with the parties involved to take the savings, more power to you. But keep in mind that if a seller sees an opportunity for the commission to be reduced, don't automatically assume they are not going to want to take that savings, or at least part of that, back for themselves. It may seem perfectly logical to you as a buyer that you would get that "savings" or seller's expense or whatever you want to call it, but sellers are not always, well, perfectly logical. As for stating my commission split with the buyers because 3% is the assumption, well you know what they say about assuming. I suppose I could state it, but again, it is between me and my seller and I don't feel the need to disclose that to the buyer. The buyer can disagree all they want. You can disagree all you want. I still take the position it basically not the buyers position to be included in that discussion. I know your opinion is different on that.Maybe asking for a commission when you aren't licensed isn't so much dishonest, as illegal. From what I understand you have to be a licensed Broker to recieve compensation. I didn't make the rule, if you don't like it write your congressman. Now if you are in a transaction and you can get everybody to go along with it, more power to you. I just wouldn't do it myself, but that is just me. As for the industry being protective, probably so. I think a lot of industries are. But whatever the situation the laws are what they are regarding non-licensed individuals and compensation. If the system doesn't work for you and you can find a way around it that works better for you, go for it.To answer your last question, as I understand it, if you have a salesman's license, basically any compensation you recieve has to be paid to your Broker and then they distribute to the salesperson. If someone is inactive and doesn't have a sponsoring Broker, then I don't think they can receive any compensation. Compensation is never paid directly to someone with a salesman's license in any event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldogg Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 To answer your last question, as I understand it, if you have a salesman's license, basically any compensation you recieve has to be paid to your Broker and then they distribute to the salesperson. If someone is inactive and doesn't have a sponsoring Broker, then I don't think they can receive any compensation. Compensation is never paid directly to someone with a salesman's license in any event.so how do the lawyers get their 3%?? they don't have a broker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rps324 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 so how do the lawyers get their 3%?? they don't have a broker....As I understand it, they can act as their own broker. When doing their own deal they are put on the same level as those with Broker's licenses instead of those with salesman's licenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrykraemer Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Realtors provide a service to their clients. They can assist the seller as the seller's agent, or they can assist the buyer as the buyer's agent. The commission is set between the seller and the seller's agent. it can be 0% or more. When the seller puts the home on the market, they then list on the MLS what percentage they will give the buyer's agent for bringing a buyer to the closing table. This can be 0% or more. But typically, just like any other profession, no one really likes to work for free. On average, 6% is often the amount the seller charges for the marketing the listing. They then divide that in half and offer the buyer’s agent 3% for bringing a buyer. If the buyer doesn't have an agent, they the agent can keep the full commission amount, or they can give all or part back to the seller. Asking for 3% of the commission that was negotiated between the seller and seller's agent is like asking a waiter for a percentage of his tips because you got your drinks at the bar and he didn't have to serve you drinks or food. It's not negotiable money for you. It seems that this profession is the one most picked on when it comes to commissions. The only time an agent gets paid is if they sell a house. The median annual Real Estate Sales Agent salary in Houston, TX is $39,549, as of May 31, 2016, with a range usually between $38,636-$50,306 (http://www1.salary.com/TX/Houston/real-estate-agent-salary.html). The Realtors you see on TV shows making millions of dollars a year represent 1% of the Realtors in real life. Most Realtors are lucky if they get one closing a month averaging about $3000 per transaction. The reality is that they are a lot of people out there who sign up to be a realtor because they think it is easy. They do a few transaction and then realize it is not as easy as they thought. So they quit. So there are a lot of new agents out there at all times. This also creates a lot of competition to find buyers and sellers. Agents usually have to pay big bucks to advertise to get their name out there. So no, Realtors are not all making millions of dollars that they can just throw out on every transaction. What is negotiable is the price of the home, the buyer doesn’t pay their agent any commission. Negotiate the price of the home. Honestly you would be better off getting a good agent, who can help you do that. Unless you negotiate for a living, I assure you a good Realtor will do a better job than you, regardless of how bad you think they are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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