News Regarding Grand Parkway, Seg. F-2

[pineda]

Draft Minutes from April 28, 2005 TTC meeting in Austin

Interesting as always, Segment F-2 info. starts on page 7.

[kjb434]

Nice to know. So I guess the EIS process is beginning. I wondering if it is a toll road will be limited? In limited I mean it will be a cooperation between HCTRA and TxDOT where the road is actually handed over to TxDOT to be a freeway after it is finished paid for. It would be different from the Beltway, Hardy, and Westpark. And actually the Beltway could be handed over when it is finished paid for, but I doubt it.

I'm wondering if the Beltway had the EIS performed before HCTRA jumped in? It would make it similar to the GP. I don't have as much history on the Beltway development in regards to studies performed for it.

[MaxConcrete]

Nice to know.  So I guess the EIS process is beginning.  I wondering if it is a toll road will be limited?  In limited I mean it will be a cooperation between HCTRA and TxDOT where the road is actually handed over to TxDOT to be a freeway after it is finished paid for.  It would be different from the Beltway, Hardy, and Westpark.  And actually the Beltway could be handed over when it is finished paid for, but I doubt it.

I'm wondering if the Beltway had the EIS performed before HCTRA jumped in?  It would make it similar to the GP.  I don't have as much history on the Beltway development in regards to studies performed for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The way I read it, the EIS for section F is complete (not beginning) and there will be a supplemental EIS due to public concerns. The supplemental EIS is just beginning.

In all the Grand Parkway minute orders I don't see anything to indicate a "limited" status as you describe it. In the present political climate, anything tolled will never be untolled. I agree, we could see some special partnership between local agencies and TxDOT to fund the projects. I think the need to study toll and non-toll options is probably a legal requirement and doesn't indicate any chance that the facilities will actually be freeways rather than tollways.

As for Beltway 8, TxDOT performed the EIS. It was done on a section-by-section basis starting in 1975 for most sections. Most sections were complete soon afterwards, but work continued on the two controversial sections until the early 1980s. That included Jersey Village and Memorial Bend.

[kjb434]

Cool thanks for the info.

And I agree, once something is tolled, the agencies that are tolling will never want to give up a revenue stream. There is only one place I've seen a toll booth completely removed was from a Mississippi River bridge just south of Baton Rouge, Louisiana. The tolls were droped from $1 to 50 cents and then it was removed. They discovered the rural bridge's revenue was primarily paying for the toll booth workers (who made a nice salary) and the police nearby for toll booth violators. Removing the booths removed the jobs and no real lost to the state, but that situatio is rare.

The other two toll facilities in Louisiana are huge revenue streams and both in the New Orleans area. They are primary commuter routes. Imagine paying $1.50 each way to cross a 24 mile bridge across a lake. This is just for your normal commute. The traffic is enough that they want to build a parallel third bridge. The bridge in the middle would be like a reversable HOV lane that will handle commuter traffic and it'll become an emergency bridge at other times.

[GovernorAggie]

I think they removed the tollbooths from I-95 in Richmond, VA, too.

[dp2]

Pineda, thanks for your response to my question about the proposed rail yard in Spring that you had heard about.

Also, was there anything you thought that was newsworthy that came out of the 4/28 TTC meeting, or just pretty much what we'd already heard about?

[dp2]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the DFW turnpike was converted from toll to free many years ago. But I agree that such isn't likely to happen in these new projects, at least until the agreements are up for renewal(and some of the proposed concessions are 50 years.) Though if there is enough of a policy shift TXDOT could probably come in at some point and buyout the concession and turn it into a free road. But the costs would be high, and doubtful the politicians would want to divert the revenue needed for that from other programs or tax hikes.

[pineda]

chron.com story re; Grand Parkway mtg. May 25th

quote from Chron.com story:

Londonderry resident Rob Maxwell said he supports the project.

"My commute has doubled in the past seven years," Maxwell said. "I think the Grand Parkway will relieve some of the congestion."

quote from the woodlands website:

MATTERS RELATING TO GRAND PARKWAY

[kjb434]

Most of the business and governement big decisions were made on the golf course.

Some other news: Surveying has also begun on the GP segment from I-45 to US-59 in Mongomerty County.

Our surveying team was out there for som reconaissance and are going to tie into the GP surveying so new developments and GP are on the same datums.

The surveyors for the GP were staking out the right of way and getting preliminary information needed for schematic design. Remeber schematic design is in no way a final design. The are often used for presentations a public meetings and the lay the groundwork for the final design process. Many schematics are produced and never used.

[pineda]

What is a datum?

Also, I sure hope your surveyors weren't out in the F-2 area recently. The company doing the work out here actually told some of the upset residents that the Grand Parkway would be demolishing their homes within six months time and there wasn't anything they could do about it.

[kjb434]

Good thing our surveyors are not working on the GP. Anyway, that wasn't professional of them to say anything like that and complaints should be file.

A datum is way of referencing the survey data to its global position (not GPS though). If our survey and the survey for the GP guys right next to us are on the same datum, then the data can be exchanged freely without having to perform some coversions which are educated guess at the best.

Two primary datums exist. A 1929 datum and 1988 datum. These established what all of our survey is based on. Adjustments are made over time, but they are tied back to these datums. The 1988 is considered the most reliable, but both work well for smaller scale pojects. Massive projects will use the newer 1988 datum.

The surveyors were out in the forests of Montgomery County nowhere near F-2 alignment.

[pineda]

Thanks for your prompt response, kjb!

It helps to hear what's going on from an insider's point of view.

BTW, complaints have been filed and forwarded to state legislators.

[kjb434]

Ok,

Incidents like this is what gets people even more riled up and it doesn't help that these people are alread agitated.

[dp2]

Some other news:  Surveying has also begun on the GP segment from I-45 to  US-59 in Mongomerty County.

Our surveying team was out there for som reconaissance and are going to tie into the GP surveying so new developments and GP are on the same datums. 

The surveyors for the GP were staking out the right of way and getting preliminary information needed for schematic design.  Remeber schematic design is in no way a final design.  The are often used for presentations a public meetings and the lay the groundwork for the final design process.  Many schematics are produced and never used.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know this is all preliminary, but have you heard if they are now incorporating plans for a parallel freight railroad line within the ROW of the I-45 to I-59 segment? Supposedly that is proposed as a belt line from the existing tracks in Spring to east of Crosby, in order to divert most of the rail traffic around Houston.

[kjb434]

if would be news to me. I hadn't heard anything about. The prelinimary alignments don't mention anyting about it.