Global Warming

[barracuda]

So...are you now implying that scientists are exempt from lying because they are not human beings ??

Because unless that is what you are implying, then you are accepting the fact that those 5 reasons do in fact still hold true for scientists. ....which means you accomplished nothing by your cute little edit.

While it may not be your intentions, your attack on scientists denigrates a profession just to prove an obvious point. The motives outlined in your post hold true for a subset of any profession...the bad seeds, if you will. I think there are better ways to make your point without putting down so many good, honest, and intelligent people.

[Highway6]

While it may not be your intentions, your attack on scientists denigrates a profession just to prove an obvious point. The motives outlined in your post hold true for a subset of any profession...the bad seeds, if you will. I think there are better ways to make your point without putting down so many good, honest, and intelligent people.

I was left no choice .... I'm glad to see you think any profession, including scientists, can have bad seeds. In that case, my remarks were not for you. However, others on here choose to build up scientists as saints... above human, above lying... that because they deal in hard cold objective science, and science never lies.. ergo, they, the scientists, never lie.

You're confusing scientists and politicians. Scientists work with raw data and draw conclusions based on that data.

[Highway6]

http://www.telegraph...iar-wedges.html

..the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfil the demand," she says. "

We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden

."

The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone,

so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports – or to Sweden – to park

, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers.

[Marksmu]

http://www.telegraph...iar-wedges.html

..the total number of limos in Copenhagen next week has already broken the 1,200 barrier. The French alone rang up on Thursday and ordered another 42. "We haven't got enough limos in the country to fulfil the demand," she says. "

We're having to drive them in hundreds of miles from Germany and Sweden

."

The airport says it is expecting up to 140 extra private jets during the peak period alone,

so far over its capacity that the planes will have to fly off to regional airports – or to Sweden – to park

, returning to Copenhagen to pick up their VIP passengers.

Hypocrisy is my favorite part about the global warming elites. They all believe that THEY do not have to change or modify THEIR lifestyle because if they convince everyone else to do so, the world will be saved, and they will still be able to fly around in their G550's and drive their Hummer limos, and what not.

There is no man made global warming. Period. It is a fact because I have deemed it so. Trust me, I would not lie to you!

[TJones]

Hypocrisy is my favorite part about the global warming elites. They all believe that THEY do not have to change or modify THEIR lifestyle because if they convince everyone else to do so, the world will be saved, and they will still be able to fly around in their G550's and drive their Hummer limos, and what not.

There is no man made global warming. Period. It is a fact because I have deemed it so. Trust me, I would not lie to you!

The only problem with your statement is that the World does NOT need saving. It never did.

[BryanS]

...for all you deniers...

There is an investigation into all this email non-sense, as you've heard.

...once that independent investigation concludes... and a "fresh look" at the data - not the data in question that could be tainted - other independent sources of data... once that fresh look is done...

...and the exact same conclusion is drawn: That Sweet Jumpin' Mary and Joesph, global climate change is real - and humans are A cause...

Then what? You gonna keep digging up old emails? When will it end with you people? Or is your 9/11-style view of this issue your destiny - never to change?

[TJones]

...for all you deniers...

There is an investigation into all this email non-sense, as you've heard.

...once that independent investigation concludes... and a "fresh look" at the data - not the data in question that could be tainted - other independent sources of data... once that fresh look is done...

...and the exact same conclusion is drawn: That Sweet Jumpin' Mary and Joesph, global climate change is real - and humans are A cause...

Then what? You gonna keep digging up old emails? When will it end with you people? Or is your 9/11-style view of this issue your destiny - never to change?

This same could be said for all you "Chicken Littles" out there Bryan. Your own people, that you have based your beliefs on, have betrayed you and lied to you. It is amazing that people like you are more worried about the emails being hacked than you are about the fact that the data was manipulated and is false. Why is that?

[Marksmu]

This same could be said for all you "Chicken Littles" out there Bryan. Your own people, that you have based your beliefs on, have betrayed you and lied to you. It is amazing that people like you are more worried about the emails being hacked than you are about the fact that the data was manipulated and is false. Why is that?

Nobody ever said that climate change was not happening, or that humans are not A CAUSE - what the skeptics are saying, is that humans are not a Significant Cause.

TJONES hit the nail on the head....Why is that the believers dont care about the manipulation of the data? All They care about is that it was stolen, and prosecuting who ever stole it. There is a cover up. Nobody knows how deep it goes. I personally think it is VERY deep, all the way to the core of the issue. Why is that all the "believers" are also the people who want to redistribute wealth, and who happen to think that everything should be government controlled...you know those who want America to look like Europe, equally poor with a standard of living substantially below that in the US currently.

[BryanS]

This same could be said for all you "Chicken Littles" out there Bryan. Your own people, that you have based your beliefs on, have betrayed you and lied to you. It is amazing that people like you are more worried about the emails being hacked than you are about the fact that the data was manipulated and is false. Why is that?

It just gets higher and deeper with you guys. You miss the point completely. I'm not worried about any emails. Because there are plenty of other independent sources of data, and plenty of other independent analysis, that need a "fresh look" - as your side is clamoring for. I say go for it. But when that result comes back with the same conclusion... then what? More religious denial? Poor TJones. He's a frog in a slow boiling pot and doesn't even know it.

[BryanS]

Nobody ever said that climate change was not happening, or that humans are not A CAUSE - what the skeptics are saying, is that humans are not a Significant Cause.

TJONES hit the nail on the head....Why is that the believers dont care about the manipulation of the data? All They care about is that it was stolen, and prosecuting who ever stole it. There is a cover up. Nobody knows how deep it goes. I personally think it is VERY deep, all the way to the core of the issue. Why is that all the "believers" are also the people who want to redistribute wealth, and who happen to think that everything should be government controlled...you know those who want America to look like Europe, equally poor with a standard of living substantially below that in the US currently.

I am a believer in the truth. There needs to be an investigation. Any manipulated data, any conclusions based on that data, needs to be thrown out. Period.

Eventually, the Earth will do more damage to itself than humans ever could - but we may be the catalyst that sets off the whole dangerous sequence of destruction. The Earth warms due to excessive human CO2 emissions... then permafrost melts, releasing the Earth's methane gas that is 30x more heat trapping than CO2. And then its just hell in hand basket from there...

[Gooch]

I am a believer in the truth. There needs to be an investigation. Any manipulated data, any conclusions based on that data, needs to be thrown out. Period.

If it were only that simple. There's a ton of derivative work based on EAU-CRU. For example, we learned this week that NASA and Univ. of Alabama Huntsville sattelite-based temperature measurements for the last 20-ish years have been calibrated against EAU-CRU's "processed" historic database. So now those measurements are suspect. Unfortunately EAU-CRU disposed of the raw data used to create their "processed" data series. We can't reconstruct it sans "processing".

Plus we do not know how many contrarian papers were barred from publishing. I know of a remote-sensing paper that was shunned (because?) it concluded temperatures have not risen significantly over the last 25-years. The reason cited... it wasn't calibrated against NASA or CRU's data series...

Eventually, the Earth will do more damage to itself than humans ever could - but we may be the catalyst that sets off the whole dangerous sequence of destruction. The Earth warms due to excessive human CO2 emissions... then permafrost melts, releasing the Earth's methane gas that is 30x more heat trapping than CO2. And then its just hell in hand basket from there...

We need to be careful with doomsday scenarios. Remember in the early 70s we were doomed to an ice age. In the late 70s we were going to run out of oil in less than 25 years. Then in the 80s it was ozone hole. In the 90s it was Y2k. Then it was "global warming". Now we're hearing about the 2012 Mayan calandar thing. It seems there's always something going cause our immediate demise.

Besides...There are enough thermodynamic holes in the AGW theory to not fear it. You inadvertantly pointed one out. Why would we supposedly see GW effects in the polar regions first? GW is powered by one single thing - sunlight. CO2 cannot create, store, or transfer a single watt of heat. None. GW effects should be obsereved first -and greatest- where the sun has the greatest energy. At the mid-lattitudes.

[barracuda]

Eventually, the Earth will do more damage to itself than humans ever could - but we may be the catalyst that sets off the whole dangerous sequence of destruction. The Earth warms due to excessive human CO2 emissions... then permafrost melts, releasing the Earth's methane gas that is 30x more heat trapping than CO2. And then its just hell in hand basket from there...

Have faith. There are plenty of ways humans could damage the earth very quickly.

Besides...There are enough thermodynamic holes in the AGW theory to not fear it. You inadvertantly pointed one out. Why would we supposedly see GW effects in the polar regions first? GW is powered by one single thing - sunlight. CO2 cannot create, store, or transfer a single watt of heat. None. GW effects should be obsereved first -and greatest- where the sun has the greatest energy. At the mid-lattitudes.

As the theory goes, warming causes the loss of ice and snow pack, which reflect solar energy/heat. This increasingly open surface area (land/water) absorb solar energy/heat rather than reflect, thus speeding the polar warming process.

[ricco67]

Just found this article: 100 Reasons why Climate change is natural.

Here are a few of my favorites:

2) Man-made carbon dioxide emissions throughout human history constitute less than 0.00022 percent of the total naturally emitted from the mantle of the earth during geological history.

3) Warmer periods of the Earth’s history came around 800 years before rises in CO2 levels.

4) After World War II, there was a huge surge in recorded CO2 emissions but global temperatures fell for four decades after 1940.

18) Despite activist concerns over CO2 levels, CO2 is a minor greenhouse gas, unlike water vapour which is tied to climate concerns, and which we can’t even pretend to control

62) Under existing Kyoto obligations the EU has attempted to claim success, while actually increasing emissions by 13 per cent, according to Lord Lawson. In addition the EU has pursued this scheme by purchasing “offsets” from countries such as China paying them billions of dollars to destroy atmospheric pollutants, such as CFC-23, which were manufactured purely in order to be destroyed.

64) Michael Mann of Penn State University has actually shown that the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age did in fact exist, which contrasts with his earlier work which produced the “hockey stick graph” which showed a constant temperature over the past thousand years or so followed by a recent dramatic upturn.

77) Why should politicians devote our scarce resources in a globally competitive world to a false and ill-defined problem, while ignoring the real problems the entire planet faces, such as: poverty, hunger, disease or terrorism.

79) Since the cause of global warming is mostly natural, then there is in actual fact very little we can do about it. (We are still not able to control the sun).

90) Politicians and climate activists make claims to rising sea levels but certain members in the IPCC chose an area to measure in Hong Kong that is subsiding. They used the record reading of 2.3 mm per year rise of sea level.

97) India plans to reduce the ratio of emissions to production by 20-25 percent compared with 2005 levels by 2020, but all Government officials insist that since India has to grow for its development and poverty alleviation, it has to emit, because the economy is driven by carbon.

[Gooch]

As the theory goes, warming causes the loss of ice and snow pack, which reflect solar energy/heat. This increasingly open surface area (land/water) absorb solar energy/heat rather than reflect, thus speeding the polar warming process.

Not entirely unreasonable... but 'runaway' temperatures did not happen during the Mideival Warming Period when Greenland was green and temperatures were warmer than they are predicted to become in the next 100 years.

I think the greatest danger from GW is that it takes focus away from much more threatening problems. We're taking research resources and diverting public attention from far more hazardous things like smoking, waterway pollution, polluted drinking water, particulates, and volatiles in the air. Threats that stand to kill us dead from cancer, lung disease, and lack of clean water. Threats we know can be quantified, mitigated, and elimated as risk to our well being. Instead... we get an attempt at global taxation on a minor problem that may, or may not, be a significant threat. Something seems out of whack with that.

[barracuda]

So it looks like nothing was accomplished in Copenhagen because China wants more power and money. Way to lead by example.

Editorial: Nopenhagen

http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15980/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=iI3Qt1eI

How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-change-mark-lynas

[TheNiche]

Good for them. They know a crappy deal when they see one. A mere $100 billion to developing countries is a joke.

[Rammer]

Algore

The wooden clown stood there getting ever fatter

His worthless opinion; does it even matter?

Although his initial grade in college science was 'D'

He still has the nerve to charge an exorbitant fee

Only a complete moron of unscientific lore

could ever claim "millions of degrees" at the earth's core

The climate emperor has no clothes, but he keeps on talking

He's actually more qualified for Leno's 'Jaywalking'

He hopes his connections to Goldman Sachs fade

While his fondest dream is of 'Cap & Trade'

For if it becomes law, the Banksters say

Algore will collect on a major payday

Al Gore's 'green' company was started by three Goldman Sachs bigshots.

Read Matt Taibbi's article in the July issue of Rolling Stone to see how Goldman devised 'Cap & Trade'.