Dave W
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Posts posted by Dave W
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15 hours ago, mkultra25 said:
I'd imagine "San Jacinto" (with a hard "j" and a short "i") and "Kirkendoll" were covered in that lesson as well.
I've occasionally heard Tuam pronounced as "chew 'em", but I'm pretty sure anyone using that variant isn't from Houston.
"Kirkendall" is the correct pronunciation of Kuykendall. It's a Dutch thing, not a Houston oddity.
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19 hours ago, hindesky said:
When I first moved to the Houston area I lived in Pasadena, they had a street spelled Tarter but everyone pronounced it Tater. It led into Pasadena Blvd at Burke Rd. but a few years ago they renamed the whole road Pasadena Blvd.
The street was Tatar, not Tarter. It was named for developer Herbert Tatar.
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5 hours ago, Boysh said:
We would love to get some more background on world toy and gift. Spent many a visit there for our children and remember the store owner well. Any more about her in the store would be delightful.
Her name was Rose Behar. I remember her from the Almeda Road store.
I found this:https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10336374/rose-behar and this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/373907237120?hash=item570e9ba900:g:WWUAAOSwRoth9Clg
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16 hours ago, Lyle Milstead said:
We were called the “Voss West Rams”.
My Father, Charlie Milstead, coached us to 3 consecutive championships in ‘77, ‘78, & ‘79. I have the ‘79 game ball to this day!
I remember your father from the Oilers, and the Aggies before that.
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21 hours ago, CJCJ said:
I was a student at Rice University in the mid eighties, and lived near Westheimer Stables. I would be there every weekend, and most weekday evenings helping out...giving riding lessons, and taking out groups of riders. It was a fantastic place, run by a feisty old redhead named Miss Avis, and her crusty old cowboy husband, John Willoughby. The latter introduced me to team penning, and we went on to win prize money at rodeos all over the state. It was a really happy time in my life...simple and carefree. Needless to say, property developers were always sniffing around the large and perfectly situated site, and it was only a matter of time before Miss Avis was forced to move on. My fondest memory is riding down Westheimer Boulevard to the local Circle K with John W, to pick up his beer...and him insisting that as a rancher, he didn't have to pay tax on the purchase! There would often be a black and white police car parked on a obscured edge of the property, waiting to pounce on any speedsters...and John took great delight in running the cops off his land!
This thread is about the building at 3736, which was a Stables restaurant at one time. Not related to the riding stables which IIRC was west of Fondren.
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On 9/26/2021 at 2:17 AM, bugtoaster said:
There was a seller of new books in Westbury Square around 1979-80. They had a selection of Usborne books and other imports that was more extensive than you would find in an ordinary store. Was this Herrick? By the mid-80s they were gone, but a seller of comics and collectible magazines had opened around the corner. It was staffed by an older gentleman, plus a younger man with a brit accent who moved very slowly and carefully, as if he were over-cautious about damaging collectible stuff.
On 9/26/2021 at 2:17 AM, bugtoaster said:M. Herrick was the original bookstore in Westbury Square back in the early 60s. It was later called Westbury Square Books. But I was gone from Houston by 1979-80 so I don't know about the store you're referring to.
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I remember M. Herrick Books in Westbury Square.
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On 2/17/2016 at 6:50 AM, Lou said:
About 1962 there was a Sage on Mykawa just north of what would become the I-610 loop.
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Sage used to have billboards like "Louie Welch saved at Sage!" (Welch was mayor at the time.)
Then Sage ran this billboard "Jesus saved at Sage!" People did not think it was funny. I remember my grand parents saying that it's what the world is coming to. There were a lot of people that would not shop there anymore.
About 2 months later, I saw that the doors and windows were all boarded up. Sage was gone. A Target opened up there some months later.
The store on Mykawa was a FedMart, not a Sage.
The only Sage in southeast Houston was at 8555 Gulf Freeway.
There was never a "Jesus saved at Sage" billboard. Never happened.
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On 8/1/2021 at 11:55 AM, Clifford said:
I remember Sage but it was located on the north side of 610 near Meyerland. Spent much of my childhood there.
It was located on the southeast corner of Beechnut at Post Oak (later 610). Post Oak was the west border.
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Kiddie Wonderland was the amusement park with the pony ride. Not Playland Park.
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On 10/24/2020 at 1:27 AM, JESS Kalinowsky said:
Anyone remember a 1960's big private home that was converted into a restaurant, that had a big back yard with Peacocks? Famous for fried chicken family style Sunday brunch. Seems it was in SouthEast Houston, near a bayou. Older mini-mansions. JESS@FriendsTravel.com if you remember
The Green Parrot on MacGregor Way. It was opened in the early 1950s.
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On 7/24/2018 at 10:04 AM, Burch Downman said:
I’m afraid you are confusing downtown McDonalds with either Bill Williams or Stuart’s, both drive-ins and both on South Main. The McDonald’s in question was in downtown Houston and was walk in. It was a stone building with a small cacti garden in front next to parking. I used to take dates there after downtown movies. It was located where the large downtown McDonalds is now.
When McDonalds was spreading across the country some people would open little burger places named McDonalds to extort money. Knowing this it was the policy of Ray Crock to challenge such places in court with the demand that they change their name. One Day attorneys arrived at the Houston McDonalds and demanded that they change their name. I was told by my father that they were quite rude and arrogant about it and had they been reasonable something could have been worked out.
ultimatlty they sued and, using their tried and true method, proceeded to claim the Houston McDonalds was a fraud created solely to extort money from a national chain. I have it on good authority that the judge, I forget his name, told them that he had courted his wife there in the 1920’s and did not appreciate lies in his court and ruled against Ray Crock. For years there were McDonalds everywhere but Houston. Eventually, McDonalds paid a reported twenty million for the building and name.
The MacDonald's on Main at Gray was a carhop drive-in. It was there at least as early as 1955, because we ate there at least that early. The family that owned it and the other two local carhop MacDonald's couldn't have opened it to extort money from the national McDonalds, because in 1955 the McDonalds we know today was a small regional chain that Ray Kroc hadn't even bought yet.
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On 3/23/2017 at 11:13 PM, Stacy Maloy said:
I am Price's daughter and was too young to remember his restaurants but I have a scrapbook of the menu's, TV show, etc. I would love to know where this sign is today? Any idea where this photo was taken?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/slaidblade/3871451920
See the comment below the photo from the person who uploaded it.
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Have you seen this one? It's from the Pine Grove Press photostream, same guy who has the Wired For Sound blog.
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Anchor Fence, which was founded in Michigan, was making and installing chain link fencing a good 40 years before Hurricane Fence was founded.
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Price's Hamburgers was the brainchild of Price Lovelady. According to a newspaper story way back when, he was financed by one of the Klebergs of King Ranch fame in exchange for 50% of the profits.
For a short time he sponsored and appeared on a local kiddie show called Uncle Price's Party. This would have been in the early 60s. He seemed uncomfortable around the kids.
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Palm Center opened about 1955. The FedMart to the east @ Mykawa opened no more than a couple of years later.
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The Gemco in that area was on Fondren just south of Beechnut. When we were visiting back in the 80s it had become a Sam's Club. No idea what the 7005 Beechnut location was, but there wasn't a Globe there either.
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These were not franchises. All were locally owned and operated. Sad to say, only a small handful of them are still in use today. I know of two: Simpson's Diner in Houston and Penny's Diner in Wellington Kansas. Anybody know of any others?
Mickey's Diner in St. Paul is still very much in business.
http://www.mickeysdiningcar.com/
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That looks like the store on Westheimer in front of Tanglewood.
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Lewis & Coker stores were around long before Kmart. As a teenager I worked at the Holcombe at Greenbrier and Palm Center stores, and later at the store adjoiining the Kmart on Van Fleet off South Park.
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I agree with TielsBetter, this thread is useful, if for no other reason than to set the record straight.
A few observations:
There were never separate shopping sections anywhere in Houston, period. Separate restrooms and water fountains, yes. Separate lunch counters or restricted to whites only, yes. But absolutely no separate shopping areas.
Woolworth's record department was bigger than average, but If you wanted a good selection of records, you went to a record store. There were dozens of them. They had different selections depending on their neighborhood and clientele, but none of them were ever restricted by race. OTOH a popular record like LaVern Baker's "Jim Dandy" could be found on the rack at your neighborhood 7-Eleven. Rack jobbers had Top 40 singles and albums in lots of retail stores.
The term "race records" was obsolete long before the mid 50s.
No, of course he wouldn't have been served alcohol at age 14. Curious that he used the term alcohol instead of beer. Liquor by the drink didn't exist in Texas until the late 70s (and still doesn't in some counties). Bars served beer and "setups." You brought your own bottle. [sarcasm] But who knows, maybe PJ stopped at the liquor store on his way to the non-existent bar where he never performed [/sarcasm].
Maybe the most ridiculous claim in the RegionalMag article is how he had a little crystal set radio that could get a special station in Pecos. With a crystal radio? Riiiight. Lucky if he could receive anything further than 5 miles away.
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Yes, I remember it, it was the Delman Theater.
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Hi NotGivinUp,
Sorry to have been away for such a long time. However, the puzzle kept my brain occupied and like you I'm not giving up! I've done a lot more research and had a good brainstorm with P.J. Proby. He certainly has a very good memory and is not making things up. Of course anybody could make a mistake after such a long time, but the picture is rather complete. Walk with me over South Main in 1954 and judge for yourself. This is the picture I'm getting:
We're talking Summer 1954. Jimmy Smith is in San Marcos Academy and in the school holidays he lives with his mother in Houston, near South Main. He's 15 years old. Singing is his passion and he hangs around every place where the music is. Tommy Sands is dating Jimmy's stepsister Betty Moers and Betty and Tommy both go to Lamar Highschool. Tommy Sands is already performing a lot in Houston as a “singing dj” and has a record out. Tommy is almost 17. Jimmy Smith follows his friend Tommy as much as he can and is allowed to sing a few songs here and there as well, or play the drums etc. Jimmy is completely unknown.
They frequently hang out in The Hitching Post. The Hitching Post is a really small beer bar, that holds maybe 30-50 people. It looks like a wooden cabin. It is right next to Prince’s drive-in on South Main, at the intersection with the Old Spanish Trail, where there is a circle now. The girls at the Prince's drive-in serve you on their roller skates. You could get a beer or a coke, Jimmy went there with his Uncle Dan, who had him order “Two beers for two steers”. One day a little airplane crashes into the roof of Prince’s drive-in, right next to The Hitching Post. The Prince’s Drive in was at 8101 South Main St (later the Taco Cabana).
On the Prince’s website it says: “The Prince's on Main Street was among the hottest hangouts in the city, and when Elvis Presley played a concert here in 1955, he headed to Prince's afterward.” It sounds very likely that Elvis knew this hamburger place for quite a while,
Before Elvis was officially playing in Houston, he was hustling for work and often played in a bar “for the money on the door”. Elvis was in Houston in the summer of 1954, trying to get in with the dj’s, especially Biff Collie. This was at the time he was just having his first regional hit in The South with That's Alright Mamma" (July 1954).
Tommy Sands remembers Elvis Presley hanging out late at night with local disc jockeys at small hamburger joints in Houston (like the Prince’s drive-in?). “Elvis Presley would eat two or three hamburgers, a double order of fries, and drink half a dozen Cokes. He was the cat”, Tommy Sands chuckled, “We called him that because he purred softly around girls. Elvis had an enormous attraction”, Sands recalled.
At the time Tommy and Biff were holding an evening in the Hitching Post, next door to the Prince’s drive-in. Billie introduces Tommy and Jimmy to this new kid Elvis Pressley, who will also do a few songs. This is not an official performance and is not in the Elvis records. Elvis befriended Biff Collie afterwards, who broadcast his radio show from different joints. Biff Collie booked Elvis to come to Houston for a few performances. Colonel Parker was Tommy Sands’ manager at the time. Colonel Parker immediately showed great interest in Elvis.
Everything goes quickly from here on. Elvis gets different performances in Houston between the Summer of 1954 and the Summer of 1955 in different joints. The joints were getting bigger and Elvis was officially billed by then. In between shows he would visit the other joints he got to know so well and sometimes join in unofficially.
It is save to say that Jimmy saw Elvis on different occasions during this year. Additionally, Elvis was dating Jimmy’s stepsister Betty when he was in town. She was also still going with Tommy Sands, and Jimmy had to make sure they didn’t find out about each other. One night Elvis had dinner with Betty, Jimmy and their mother at their house (when Elvis was already driving a Cadillac). Probably this was during the Christmas holidays 54/55.
PJ’s Mom was a huge fan of Elvis and loved his record “That’s When Your Heartaches Begin” .
Jimmy saw Elvis making it quickly. From looking for work in Scotty’s old beat-up Chevrolet to a huge star in a pink Cadillac within a year. Jimmy was present when Colonel Parker told Tommy Sands he would manage Elvis from now on and would have to let Tommy go (Christmas holidays 1954/1955).
PJ also mentions being present later at the Eagle's Hall when Elvis and George Jones were on the bill (August 1955?)
Location:
Jimmy gets to the Hitching Post walking over the South Main dirt road on bare feet. There was no dual carriage way with a division in the middle in those days. Jimmy has to go past the Shamrock Hotel, that has an enormous swimming pool, where Jimmy is allowed to swim in, because his Daddy is member of the card club. He comes there with his friend Mike Dees and Mike’s sister Melinda. Mike’s father Buster Dees owns another club on South Main, The Troubadour, which has a little swimming pool with coins in it, to attract the drunks and have them fall in the pool to sober up. Jimmy and Mike dive for the coins, but Buster has a go at them.
Another joint on the way is Bill Williams Fried Chicken. Bill Williams had the best fried chicken in town, across from the Pony Ride. It was next to the place where college kid Kenny Rogers (stand-up bass) and Mike Dees (on drums) performed with a blind piano player “ The Bobby Doyle Three “ a few years later. (The name of this club across the road from the Shamrock was Rib-eye Supper Club on Holcomb Blvd and Main Street)
And of course there was PlayLand Park, where Jimmy cut his first record with his Uncle Dan, when he was very little.
If you went past the Hitching Post, to the left on the Old Spanish Trail, you came to the big place that Aunt Bonnie was involved in, where Elvis and Tommy Sands also performed later (This must have been The Paladium, formerly Texas Corral.)
There were three theatres on Main Street. The other way, into town, was the Auditorium where Elvis also played later and there was a Rodeo.
Conclusion:
The Hitching Post was on the crossing of South Main and Old Spanish Trail. It was just a small wooden beer bar where kids that were unknown got a chance to show their musical abilities and talent was scouted. Nothing fancy. It was next to Prince’s drive-in on 8101 Main St.
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Are there any old photos known of this spot?
Tinker
Tinker,
In 1950, we moved right off 9600 South Main, and I'm quite familiar with the South Main/OST junction in 1954 and well beyond. There was not a bar called the Hitching Post at South Main and OST; not next door to Prince's, not across the street from Prince's. It wasn't there. Period. Prince's only next door neighbor was its competitor Stuart's Drive In directly to the north. The Palladium fronted on OST, across the street from the OST side of Stuart's. Across South Main there was a drive-in grocery/cafe, the Ace Trailer Park and Lee's Den Chinese restaurant. There was no building of any kind there that looked like a wooden cabin.
Jimmy/PJ's memories of South Main St. are confused at best. South Main was certainly not a dirt road; it was paved throughout its length. Don't know why you mention that "there was no dual carriage way with a division in the middle in those days" but there was an esplanade in the section that bordered Rice University, and there were four lanes divided by a wide grass esplanade all the way from the OST junction south to just past Stella Link. More important, if Jimmy's mother lived near South Main, and he had to pass Bill Williams Fried Chicken on his way to South Main at OST, then she must have lived north of Rice University, a good three miles or more from Prince's. That's a long walk, barefoot or not. And if she lived in the Lamar attendance zone, chances are she lived a good bit futher away than that. Bill Williams was in the 6500 block, a half mile north of the Shamrock. Kiddie Wonderland (the "pony rides") was more than half a mile south of the Shamrock. Playland Park was in the 9200 block, more than a mile south of Prince's.
Keep in mind that Prince's most famous location was in the 4500 block, near Sears. It's possible that PJ is remembering a bar or a building near that Prince's.
That brings us to Elvis. There's simply no evidence that Elvis ever hung around Houston hustling for gigs. His whereabouts and his gigs are known and pretty well documented.
Historic Houston Roads
in Historic Houston
Posted · Edited by Dave W
That's a misspelling. I don't care how many organizations or real estate companies misspelled it, it's Tatar.
Look up the history of Pasadena. Consult a city historian. Look up the Herbert Tatar Lumber Company, which he established well before WWII. See what the city says about Herbert Tatar Park https://www.pasadenatx.gov/facilities/facility/details/Tatar-Herbert-Park-79 . Look up the ethnic origin of the name Tatar.
Herbert Tatar's son Curtis was a classmate of mine for several years. I know the street was named after his father, and I know how the family spelled their name.
EDITED TO ADD: go to https://www.oldmapsonline.org/map/usgs/5491873 then view the 1982-83 map (or any of the other 3 historic street maps), enlarge in the area of City Hall and Town Square, and you will see Tatar St.