2112

Well, my mistake is not realizing that 2112 wants to keep this conversation at a "5th grade" level. Hell, why am I slaving away in an MBA/Logistics and Supply Chain Management program when I can just ask a 5th grader what a port is?

Trying to have an intelligent conversation with these Houston posters is about as enlightening as asking Beavis and Butthead about sperm whales.

All my hopes and dreams for this thread have come true. It's all I ever thought it would be, and then some.

When ships enter the port of Houston (and possibly other ocean ports as well), giant cranes will put the containers from the cargo ships onto trains, which will be shot to Dallas, where all the logistical action will take place: customs, unloading, warehousing, sorting to destination. It is as if the boat will pull up to Houston, but the longshoremen will be in Dallas.

In short, the inland port will position southern Dallas County as the major center for the transport and distribution of goods in the central United States.

Who writes this crap?

I dont know if anyone else noticed this very clever inuendo by this dallas author, but the phrase "and possibly other ocean ports as well", attempts to downplay the fact that the port of houston is the main player here. Further, the article depicts ocean vessels entering the port of houston, where the containers are then "SHOT TO DALLAS". Thiese 3 words were carefully chosen by the author, because they imply that "as soon as" the ships are unloaded at houston's port, they are immediately taken away, as if to say, they have liitle buisiness here and are instead instantly, well, "shot", to DALLAS. Where "ALL" the action will take place.

The word "shot" carries alot of weight here, and it distills the essence of what the dallas marketering engine is trying to paint as this so called Port of Dallas.

It's so clear, isnt it....

Greetings to all of you fine Dallas bunch.

You "guys" seem to think I am upset or insecure or hypocritic or outrageous, etc. etc. and.........etc. At least that is what the previous 2 threads have implied. And I also seem to be acused of not not "seeing" the point of the great economic impact this (sound of clearing of throught)..."PORT" will have on the "REGION". To anyone who has bothered to read my threads, I have on multiple occasion acknowledged the good this so called "port" will have on this "region". Thats all good. My only quirck here is to note the level of marketing gimicks that dallas goes through in order to make something more than it really is. A "port"? Longeshoremen? Come one dudes. Even a 5th grader knows what a "port" is. Heck, we all do. And I can garantee you that when any sane indivdual thinks of a "port", they think of a city with some docks and some ocean or other body of water where these "SHIPS"show up and "DOCK" to it. Ships dock to a port. THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. THEY ARE SHIPS. This is the essence of what is know as a PORT!!!!

Now, correct me if I'm wrong. But any other interpretation of a "port" is what I would call a "stretch", dont you think? And THAT was my point of this entire thread!!!!

I know I'm right!!! That's what makes this thing so damn funny!!!!!!! (its kinda bizzare when yout think about it)

-2112

What about that statement has you down in the dumps? ;-)

If it's the stated failure rate of retail at Denver Pavilions, well, I'm not sure what FirstnGoal's source or credentials are for that statement... but the Denver Pavilions shows very few vacant spaces on any level. Casualties in the restaurant field, gosh, what a surprise. ;-) In any event, Wolfgang Puck's just closed last January, after Seven years in Denver Pavilions, and it's closure had more to do with Wolfgang Puck's divorce than with Denver Pavilions.

If your concern is the statement "if the developer can't make residential work at the Pavilions, it probably can't work elsewhere downtown, ignores the rest of the information we've gotten about the residential element, to-wit: the problem was the underground parking, which was making it too expensive to stay within the market prices for apartments. Very simple. Apparently, others (including especially Marv Finger) are still seeing a market.

Also, Firstngoal stated that Denver is 10 years ahead of Houston in residential development; therefore Denver Pavilions didn't need a residential portion, but Houston's does. But Denver Pavilions opened 9 years ago, so that puts Houston in relatively the same place that Denver was when Denver Pavilions opened. (In fact, we'll be in a better place than Denver was, since Houston Pavilions won't open until nearly 11 years after Denver Pavilions did; so if we're only 10 years behind in residential development... well, you can do the math. ;-)

I know who's got my back. Keep in mind that Houston19514 doesnt live in Houston, and hasnt in a long time. Any astute reader has probably noticed his steadfast defense and loyalty to our city, for years mind you. There is so much pessimism that litters all around. We should probably all learn a little from 19513 and stop looking at all the things that could go wrong. It's all good.

With all due respect to Mr. Dave, you missed the whole point of this thread. All I was trying to do was point out yet another example of the rediculous levels of imagination that Dallas goes thru in order to paint an image of itself. True, other cities, including Houston, have some level of marketing to promote themselves. Fair enough. But, the rediculous levels that Dallas goes after is simply incredible. There is such a preocpation with its own image that it looses a sense of reality. And the reason no one here is picking on the Port of San Antonio is because that city is genuine. It doesnt beg to be this or that. It is what it is, warts and all.

Dude,

You need a hobby.

Funny, though.

Dude. You read my mind!

So, am I like the only number on here?

Whatever. It is almost impossible it have a meaningful conversation on this board without some insecure Houstonite crying about how unfair the Dallas marketing machine is, as if everything you read that is puts Dallas in a positive light couldn

Did the "It is as if..." part cause you to lose your concentration?

Yes! Yes it did!! I had to pick myself up off the floor after reading the article and rolling on the floor laughing! Only bad thing is I dropped my shot of tequila (Patron Silver). Had to make me another one.

There is nothing wrong or inaccurate with the article, though it is short on details. Obviously, the article is written for an audience with little technical understanding of logistics and tries to explain how an inland port works.

Did the "It is as if..." part cause you to lose your concentration? There will not be any longshoremen literally in Dallas, as you bent over backwards pointing out, but this is clearly a rhetorical mechanism to convey to novices how inland ports work. Really, a twelve year old can clearly understand the point that is being made by the writer, what is your problem?

2112, I imagine you are just trying to pull this board into another Dallas vs. Houston shouting match, or are starved for attention, but this time you are just coming across as a fool. This is simply my opinion, of course. Good night.

Editorial linking the new UNT Dallas campus and the port as key to the southern sector's development:

http://www.peoplenewspapers.com/ME2/Audien...E75FD51480D8A7D

(Just when I thought it couldnt possibly get better)

This is classic:

"...It is as if the boat will pull up to Houston, but the longshoremen will be in Dallas..."

So basically, all the "action" will be sucked away from POH and will pop up in Big D!! (The article actually continues and claims exactly this) I'm sorry, but this is just too funny. Dont get me wrong, it makes me happy to see a part of the area that has been neglected get some badly deserved attention and prosperity. It's just that the whole marketing engine in Dallas just never ceases to amaze me! Longshoremen in Dallas? Again, I offer to you the jury that there is no water anywhere to be found for a 250 mile radius. Yet we seem to have a Port here. Complete with longshoremen. Jeeze. There is just so much imagination and just not enough reality going on around these parts. Next thing you know, Mission Control will "essentially" be in Plano. It's the same camp that tries to convince us that Fort Worth is in fact part of Dallas. I love it.

The Port of Dallas.

It's a Port. And it's in Dallas.

It's the Port of Dallas.

McAllen

Outch.

(My home town.)

One of the things I was trying to point out is that it is not any particular group of people that turns me off in downtown - its the attitude of that so-called "gansta" crowd, with all the anger and aggresivness that goes with it. And like I said, I can point to many types from many races, like my own, that are a part of that. And it is that attitiude that is now lurking all over main street, not necessarily any one group, that is a turn off. Case in point: The jazz scene I love, and I am very much a minority as a Latino, say, in the Red Cat. But I still feel very comfortable there because it is full of people who are classy and dont get in your face. I guess I am uncomfortable with lumping any particular race into a lifestyle, because it is the lifestyle that where much of the crap is. I may sound like an old man, but really, the glorification of violence and the in-your-face attiudes do suck, young or old.

...unless it's Limp Bizkit. For some reason, there angry songs really hit the spot when I was having to deal with difficult people!

Let's have another one. But this time, the theme will be ladies thongs will be worn on the outside.

I'm not particularly a fan of the "gang-sta" scene, or rap for that matter. I dont like people making gangster references, glorifications of implied violence, and overtones of anger: that way of life comes from several types of people to be sure, of all colors, including my own ethnic background. And that scene is definitely growing quite a bit on Main street. So consequently I hardly go to main street like I used to, unless it's flying saucer or something like that. I just prefer something like what Market Square feels like, a "cheers"-like enivornment. I do like the funk and jazz scene though, which attracts a wide variety of people. I liked Mercury room because of the live music and the 70's funk music. Now it's closed. The Red Cat and Sambucas is something I also like , thus I will go there still, at times. So in this case, this means I am one of the causalties of main street, and it is for several reasons. Some people may read into this and think there is some bigotry in there somewhere. But it's not. It's really for a varitety of reasons, and I'm sure alot of people have noticed the same things I just described on Main Street.

No insecurity involved because Houston is the center of the planet.

Houston is "interplanetary"? Been licking toads again?

I will say this.....this forum is amusing if not ever on topic.

How'd - ja know about the toads?

So did you like Phoenix? Did you get to see much of the city? Did you visit Snottsdale? (My favorite put-down of Scottsdale I heard from Arizonans though I spent little time there myself). How would you compare Phoenix to Houston or Dallas?

I like big cities, especially ones I have never seen or have not in a long time - I was 10 years old the last time I passed though there on a Trailways bus going to L.A. Anyways, it was fun being in a stange city trying to navigate on the fly. I love the mountains that surround the place, that's cool. But most of the action I got was some traffic and the hustle at the airport, the rest of the time it was 10 hour work days. Honestly, I wasnt there long enough to see much, except for the thing about it being a desert and everyone having rocks and sand for a front lawn. Things seemed like they were evenly partitioned, and everything kinda looked the same to be honest. Houston and Phoenix have very little in common, that's my limited perception. Not only the fact that Houston has GREEN, and a large amount of vegitation. Plus we have water, not only by our close beaches and Clear Lake and the bay, but we get water on our front lawns and in our houses sometimes!! Houston=Water, Phoenix=Rocks. Thier downtown was kinda neat, because it was different. But, nowhere close to the higher densities of our downtown, uptown, medcenter, etc. etc. Plus of course Houston has lot's of gritty corners lurking everywhere, the Port here and the whole east end really makes Houston feel like a bigger city with lots of un-clean edges to it. So again, no comparison between the two it seems. But I want to check Phoenix out some more, I'm sure there are some gems that I just need to discover.

I will probably be going to Phoenix often, and one of the things i MUST go see is Taliesn West (sp?).

Do the Dallasites have large talens?

Well I'm back. I think the one thing that stood out to me was the idea of sand and rocks. Man, you better like sand and rocks, with random placement of cactus to add some character. Not even weeds survive there! But I will say this, they have MOUNTAINS all around. About the closest thing we have here to that are bridges and speed bumps.

I'm going to Phoenix for about 3 days, leaving tommorrow (Sunday). Anyone have something to recommend, that I can do after a work day? You know, something that has some history..a pub or old building or place that isnt ordinary. (Orange Show/La Carafe-like stuff). Something different. Thanks.

-2112

That's the most honest statement in this entire thread. People in New York or Chicago would laugh at all the insecurity here. I wish we could think bigger....Texas vs. California, with all the cities of Texas being important parts of a larger economic engine.

Neither city will be "International" until we start looking beyond the 500 miles between us.

Not sure why New York is even an issue here, because what we have here is nothing more than a long tradition of Houston versus Dallas rivalry. It has nothing to do with New York - excpet for the fact that Dallas likes to think they are "New York". While Houston likes to think they are, well, Houston. Further, anyone who knows Texas and Houston and Dallas knows that "insecurity" is the least of the problems. If anything, Texans think (as I) that we are in fact the center of the universe. Incidently, that title belongs to Houston and not Dallas because, as it turns out, we are the center of the planet when humans surveying the solar system is taken into account. So as long as everyone understands that when it comes to the larger picture that includes Earth and the immediate surrounding parts of the solar system, that humans can claim, then Houston becomes the center of all things. I'm not sure what Dallas is, but I know it's not that. So we dont worry about being "international", when we allready are "interplanetary".

I love downtown Houston, don't ever go anymore though. My family has owned a few different bars around the area. My dad just complains that downtown really is only a big draw on special nights or events. He recently sold one business and is going to re open in a location around Westheimer and Kirby. Yes, Houston's nightlife is really amazing compared to 10 years ago, but it is not bumper to bumper crowds like the pictures above suggest. Atleat, not every weekend.

Actually, it is every weekend. Maybe not half a million people like on a big Astros or Rockets night. But every Saturday night that I have been there, it's pretty wild between midnight and around 3:00am. Babe Central. Bumper to bumper cars and people. Maybe not every night of the week. But Weekends, it's pretty damn cool. Lots of thongs. Life is good.

Oh please West Texan, that was a March or Rally in Dallas. Or was that part of the joke?

Actualy, that looks like a rally to outlaw anyone with a name like "Jose" or something, which, by the way, is in fact, my first name. Is that Farmer's Branch by chance?

Regards,

Jose "2112"

I have seen some georgous pictures of Dallas lately on this forum. Very nice. There is also a person who goes by "Ninja" something over at the DFW forum. He has some downright awesome shots over there.

I would like to see some of the same quality pics of Houston. The one angle I have yet to see is something from the souteast side, which shows all the older and smaller buildings in-filling in the front of the larger behmoth modern skyscrapers in the back. I know there are some shots from the Scott Elevated, but I havent seen something of the quality you see lately coming out of some of the Dallas photographers. If anyone knows of some, please post!!!

Let me state that Main Street in DT Houston DOES NOT have, nor has it EVER had club after club for a mile. I am pretty much familiar with every square inch of that area, including the Warehouse District, Skyline District, Ballpark District, and Theater District. To say that the Main Street Corridor DT has club after club for even a quarter mile, is a serious stretch. You obviously haven't been to DT Houston at night, EVER. To answer your question, in short, YES, Dallas has a similar area called Greenville Avenue, which has far more history/longevity as an Entertainment District than Main Street in Houston, which basically exploded around the opening of the METRO rail line. I will provide you with a more comprehensive response to your question later (complete with maps, lists of establishments, etc.).

Here are some shots of several night time scenes in Downtown Houston, during some street parties. (Holloween, big sporting nights, etc.) I was also there this last Saturday night. It was raining and cold, and, surprisingly, there was a crowded scene all around the historic district and market square. Plenty of sweet young thangs in short skirts and thongs and such. Life is good. Anyways:

Let me state that Main Street in DT Houston DOES NOT have, nor has it EVER had club after club for a mile. I am pretty much familiar with every square inch of that area, including the Warehouse District, Skyline District, Ballpark District, and Theater District. To say that the Main Street Corridor DT has club after club for even a quarter mile, is a serious stretch. You obviously haven't been to DT Houston at night, EVER. To answer your question, in short, YES, Dallas has a similar area called Greenville Avenue, which has far more history/longevity as an Entertainment District than Main Street in Houston, which basically exploded around the opening of the METRO rail line. I will provide you with a more comprehensive response to your question later (complete with maps, lists of establishments, etc.).

There are a bunch though:

DOWNTOWN HOUSTON

Clubs, Bars, Pubs, Restaurants

and other destinations

Total Bar/Restaurant Count: 115

NORTH DOWNTOWN HISTORIC DISTRICT:

MARKET SQUARE (14):

La Carafe (Oldest bldg. in Houston)

Twelve Spot

Cotton Exchange Bar

Blu Torch

Les Givrals (French Vietnamese Fusion)

La Tapatia bar and grill

Club Paesanos

Warrens

Market Square Bar and Grill (Great patio at back)

Treebeards Restaurant (limited hours)

CharBar (tailor by day, bar by night)

Red Cat Jazz Cafe (restaurant/bar)

Wasabi (Japanese)

Kim Son (Vietnamese)

FRANKLIN AVENUE/COMMERCE AVENUE (14):

Six Degrees Lounge (Formerly Dusk)

New Orleans Cajun Kitchen (formerly Kairo Caf

My vote: The Millie and Niels Esperson buildings. Wow. To build a skyscraper with your name on it, and then have it placed right next to - and attached to - your late spouce's building, and to know that both will be standing strong with each other possibly hundred's of years after both of you have passed on - it's so beautiful it even brings a lump to my throat. Almost every time I pass by those two buildings, I think of what she may have been thinking when she built it, and what emotions may have came flooding to her.